| By Kansascity (209.242.125.134) on Tuesday, March 20, 2001 - 01:21 am: |
Old School Wisdom: the way to a MANS HEART is through his stomach...that is how I caught him. Also, I did not treat him like a THING! KC :-)
| By Ladylily (205.188.199.188) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 08:39 am: |
Spade, FYI Ladylily and Saxylily are one and the same...but I suppose you already figured that out yourself. Someone else had my original name on another website when I joined (Ladylily)...I had to improvise. I play the sax, so I became Saxylily. In regard to your last post on this particular site, let us agree to disagree. ~ Ladylily
| By Frangiapani (203.54.39.45) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 07:30 am: |
Its very rare to find someone who doesnt play games. If someone is playing with my mind, what else can I do but go along with it? Im interested in someone right now and I know we both like each other a lot but for the life of me, still cant figure out why when one of us moves forward one step and shows our interest, the other takes one step back. I guess we only do it to keep a balance happening, neither one of us wants to think the other is too clingy. Later on in a relationship, I think it gets to a point where the games do stop. When two people are relaxed with each other and know each other well, they can stop with all that madness and express their feelings naturally.
| By Spade (209.207.174.162) on Saturday, March 17, 2001 - 03:59 am: |
Frangiapani, Why do men and women even have to go through all of that? SO many games that we play, sometimes If Im interested I just want to go ahead and say and do what Im feeling. Its then that I have to stop myself, thats when the games start..Maybe he will get scared and run or Men like women who dont want them, so its more challenging...Sometimes I think if we just cant act on our natural responses and feelings toward a person then whats the point?? I heard a line in a movie once where the woman said to another woman, "Its always better if the man loves you more than you love him", that way he wont lose interest. Whats the deal here?, is there anyone out there in a decent relationship who doesnt feel the need to play all these mind games?
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| By Spade (38.144.97.41) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 09:25 pm: |
Ladylily, Spade, you and these ladies are from a different school of behavior than I am. I am probably much older than all of you...and in keeping with the way in which I was taught in some respects...that a real lady does not approach men. It does not mean that I am wrong. It only means that I have my thoughts on this and you have yours. To each his own...that seems fair. It does not give you the right to say that I am wrong and that I should behave the way younger women do nowadays. Your attitude makes me wonder about black men in general. It is possible that due to negative history, in which black men were severely punished for even looking at a white woman, black men of today are still secretly fearful of approaching white women. Perhaps many black men are concerned about rejection, so they wait for white women to make the first move. That way they will not be reproached. I hear similar stories on other websites...that black men want the white woman to show interest first. Psychologically, I think there is something to my thought on this.
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Lady, the tradition you believe in is but one of many types that have been handed down long before there ever was an America for which you could make claims of a "different school of behavior." This is not a matter of influence of a period of ones youth and upbringing but a matter of addressing a tradition that is contradicting in reference to being masculine and feminine. It would have been a different thing if your words were limited to a person who was shy and not on the grounds of being feminine.
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NO! The issue I'm speaking of is not a matter of opinion or one's personal feelings regarding this matter but logical truth. You asserted that it is unfeminine in your opinion for a woman to initiate the first move. I am showing that is ridiculous and giving evidence to support my claim NOT attacking your right to believe what you want and have your opinion.
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Nowadays?????? You silly lady women having been taking the initiative long before your great great great grandparents ever existed [example Ruth 3: 1-13]. Furthermore I said nothing about YOU behaving like a young woman because taking the initiative in making known your attraction for a person of the opposite sex is not a matter of age, color, or being male or female but a responsibility which lies on whoever it is who is interested to make known their interest. If it is not true that it is unfeminine for a woman to make an advance on a man of her interest then it is not true and your opinion and those who taught it to you and still hold to it are wrong! The "right" I have to tell you that is the "right" of truth that supercedes opinion.
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Quote:Studies have shown that up to 98% of women dare not make advances to a member of the opposite sex. A woman would rather let the opportunity of meeting a man she fancies slip by than go through the ordeal of initiating relations with him.
| By Ladylily (152.163.207.199) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 06:40 pm: |
Spade, you and these ladies are from a different school of behavior than I am. I am probably much older than all of you...and in keeping with the way in which I was taught in some respects...that a real lady does not approach men. It does not mean that I am wrong. It only means that I have my thoughts on this and you have yours. To each his own...that seems fair. It does not give you the right to say that I am wrong and that I should behave the way younger women do nowadays.
Your attitude makes me wonder about black men in general. It is possible that due to negative history, in which black men were severely punished for even looking at a white woman, black men of today are still secretly fearful of approaching white women. Perhaps many black men are concerned about rejection, so they wait for white women to make the first move. That way they will not be reproached. I hear similar stories on other websites...that black men want the white woman to show interest first. Psychologically, I think there is something to my thought on this. I have nothing further to say on this subject. Take care. ~ Lily
| By Spade (216.66.30.218) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 03:36 pm: |
Promoprincess, Studies have shown that up to 98% of women dare not make advances to a member of the opposite sex. A woman would rather let the opportunity of meeting a man she fancies slip by than go through the ordeal of initiating relations with him.
Establish whether or not this gentlemen is in a relationship. If he is not, then make a subtle yet direct presentation to verbally let him know you are interested and would like to know him better. Its that simple, don't make it harder then it is. If he is a good man and he's currently single then he's bound to attract another woman's attention, a woman who will do what you could have done to possibly start a relationship. [Bear in mind that regardless of what specific technique you use if it is meant to be it will be and if not then it won't.] Now think for a moment, you have said that this is one of the only men that you have seen that looks like he has the potential of dating material. If you can see that as a woman then other women can see it too and some of them will not run about trying to merely "exude" "sensuality" through use of their "aura" to allure him in hoping he's smart enough to "pay attention." Use a combination and come up with a subtle yet direct approach while exuding a sensual aura that pulls him in and after you've done that THEN leave the rest to him. After you've made the first move there is no need to chase or run up behind him because he knows you're interest so all you have to do is wait on him, and you will not have to do that because hopefully you'll know instantly. If it doesn't work out then you move on, but at least you'll know it instead of sitting about hoping. Do not play mind games! Frangiapani was very correct in pointing out how futile mind games are. You don't and should not have to go through all that, be natural as she suggested. Believe me more than likely he doesn't want to go through all the mind games regardless of what any other woman tells you. Here's a quote on what a man has said regarding this type of scenerio and women:
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In other words, for the sake of that which a woman regards as the most important thing in this world - namely, a satisfying relationship - she is not prepared to take any substantive risk. She is willing only to wear a pretty dress and to otherwise look aloof.
Now what does this say about the character of women?
Don't fall into this trap! Keep it simple, subtle, and sensual but direct.
[Next, I have a few choice words for Ladylily and a few good praises for Frangiapani]
| By Melirosa (208.48.12.163) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 02:20 pm: |
mad scientist-
i would hope that no man would ever have to experience having their feelings hurt by a woman turning them down in an embarrasing way. how rude!!!!!!!!!! i know that happens quite often. why can't these women just respond with a "no thank you" in a kind manner. i have actually witnessed a woman doing this to a man and it made me feel absolutely terrible. sorry gentlemen, some of have more etiquette than others.
| By Mad_scientist (134.124.212.217) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 01:23 pm: |
As an INTP, this all makes my problems better. Even though people tell me that I am a good looking man, I have some trouble. I am very introverted and I am shy. Another problem is even though I am a very sociable person, I am anti-social. And my last problem is that I am never sure if a girl likes me. You have to practically knock me on my head and tell me that you like me in order for me to be sure. That is one of the reasons why I think females should take initiative sometimes.
Also, when we ask a girl out, we are putting ourselves on the line. Sure, they will say no at times, but some take it too far, and will embarress you, hurting your pride, while others will take it to the extreme, and even accuse you of sexual harrassment. Asking a girl out is a very hard thing to do. So I think that females need to experience asking us out sometimes.
| By Promoprincess (205.188.200.31) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 10:14 am: |
Melirosa,
Both the child and the mother live out of town, so i'd assume that other than being the child's parents they are not together.
| By Melirosa (208.48.12.163) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 09:41 am: |
quick question: do you know if he is even available? you mentioned that he has a child,which means absolutely nothing, but are you sure he is not involved?
| By Melirosa (208.48.12.163) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 09:33 am: |
i agree with ishvara. if you don't go overboard, and you are able to get your point across with some subtle, yet obvious flirtation, all the better. let him know you are interested by getting him to speak to you with more than just a "hello". start small and work into it. get him to laugh. SMILE BIG and make eye contact for more than just a passer by's second. if he is interested, you'll know.
| By Ishvara (38.163.112.107) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 08:53 am: |
There is a great success in practicing the art of flirting correctly. Try teasing and joking, everyone loves someone who can make them laugh and smile.
| By Ladylily (205.188.198.28) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 08:42 am: |
Ladies, when a woman exudes sensuality toward the man of her desire and she is serious about it, if he is smart enough to pay attention he will be totally allured by her aura. It will draw him like a magnet and he will not be able to stop himself. That IS sexy! ~ Lily
| By Frangiapani (203.54.52.117) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 08:11 am: |
Why do men and women even have to go through all of that? SO many games that we play, sometimes If Im interested I just want to go ahead and say and do what Im feeling. Its then that I have to stop myself, thats when the games start..Maybe he will get scared and run or Men like women who dont want them, so its more challenging...Sometimes I think if we just cant act on our natural responses and feelings toward a person then whats the point?? I heard a line in a movie once where the woman said to another woman, "Its always better if the man loves you more than you love him", that way he wont lose interest. Whats the deal here?, is there anyone out there in a decent relationship who doesnt feel the need to play all these mind games?
| By Promoprincess (205.188.193.157) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 08:02 am: |
Frangiapani is on the right track as far as the advice I was looking for. I've been doing the coy thing for months and as far as I know this guy is assuming I'm friendly with him because he is a customer. A coworker of his is also a customer and she happens to be a white woman in an interracial relationship. I'm chummy with her, and assume that they're pretty close.
There's not an occasion to go out for drinks, etc. (i guess i forgot to mention that i live in a REALLY small town) Except a party that their office has once a year - I really don't want to wait six months for a chance to talk to him over drinks, besides, it's still work - even if it's his.
I do want Ladylily to know that I wasn't planning on attacking this guy, just looking for an in on how to tell if he's interested. Maybe the Spade could tell me how a white girl could let this black man know that she's interested in him more than the fact that he happens to be a customer.
Oh yeah, one more twist - he does have a child with a black woman. I assume nothing from this, other than the fact that he has a child.
I've been living here for a little over a year and I swear this is the first guy i've seen that even has a smidge of dating potential - i don't want to regret any move i make, but to quote the Spade "sitting around trying to figure out ways to make him notice [me][i'm]allowing time go by for another woman who is bold yet feminine enough to be upfront about her attraction to get [him]" is driving me crazy.
| By Ladylily (152.163.207.181) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 07:12 am: |
My apologies..a typo "their own way...". Guess I am not awake yet l-I . Must be coffee time. ~ Lily
| By Ladylily (152.163.207.181) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 06:38 am: |
Everyone has there own way of attracting the opposite sex. You are entitled to your opinion on how a woman should express interest and desire for a man. I am also entitled to my feelings about this. Maybe you like blue, I like green sort of thing. I am publicly reserved, so I would never approach a man in a bold way. I still feel that a woman with a low key smoldering sensuality (it is evident without her saying a word) will attract the man of her desire if he is sensual himself...he will know she is interested in him. If he wants her then he will go for it. A woman's ability to draw a man to her is utterly feminine and I think most men love that in a woman. Maybe if you tried being the pursuer you would like it more than you realize. ~ Lily
| By Spade (209.207.174.162) on Friday, March 16, 2001 - 02:22 am: |
Ladylily, Regardless of what some liberated women say, I feel that it is unfeminine for women to blatantly come on to any man they are not in a relationship with. There is NOTHING charming about it! Let's face it...men still like to be the pursuer.
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Stop right there! Many men go after what they want and if they see a woman they're attracted to and think she might be available they'll make it known they're interested. Men pursue the type of women you're talking about because they know the women will not make the first move. As a masculine man I recognize that there are women who just sit there like a bump on log thinking its a "man's" job to come up to them, and I that crap! As a mature adult a woman should be able to express her interest in a male she is attracted to in a direct yet feminine fashion without having to play cat and mouse or use any other type of "read-between-the-lines" techniques to get her point across. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the theme of what you're trying to say in women being feminine and letting men be masculine because there is a massive problem in that regard. And I agree that behavior that is too aggressive (and even that is relative) in women attracting a man is unbecoming. But I don't agree with with your comments in instigating a woman not letting a man know she's interested in him directly [it is not an issue of being feminine or masculine to let the opposite sex know you're attracted to them, tradition is mainly responsible for saying otherwise]. While she's sitting around trying to figure out ways to make him notice her she's allowing time to go by for another woman who is bold yet feminine enough to be upfront about her attraction to get the man.
| By Ladylily (205.188.198.44) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 08:05 pm: |
Regardless of what some liberated women say, I feel that it is unfeminine for women to blatantly come on to any man they are not in a relationship with. There is NOTHING charming about it! Let's face it...men still like to be the pursuer. Within a relationship...it can be very sexy for both the man and the woman if the woman blatantly expresses interest in him.
Your situation is rather sticky. Maybe you could just happen to be outside the bank about the time you know he goes by..and you could give him a geniune smile and a friendly "hello, nice to see you again" comment. If he is slightly interested, he will make the next move. If he does not..do not chase him..he may run. Sometimes, no matter how subtle a woman is in showing her interest in a guy...he does not get it, or maybe he is not interested. Nonetheless, if you are bold he might form the opinion that you are too aggressive. Maybe some guys like women like that. Again, I think women of that nature are unfeminine. Some will disagree, because they want to wear the pants in a relationship. For me, a woman should not wear both the pants and the dress and try to be a he/she in a relationship. Let him be the man (he has his pride)..and a woman should be a woman and I do not mean in the old fashioned "Donna Reed Syndrome" sense. I applaud women for the many equalities we have achieved, yet I still feel that women are losing their femininity, because they are trying too hard to be the man too. Chasing after men fits into that category. ~ Lily
| By Frangiapani (203.54.43.99) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 07:29 pm: |
Who are his close friends at work?, Do you talk to them?, maybe you can get to know him better by all of you going out after work for drinks as friends. Anyway, Ive found its always better to just not act too interested, a guy can tell these things?! Just act friendly and talk to him about work related things, if hes interested you will probably know, and then wait for him to approach you. Well, thats my advice!!
| By Promoprincess (205.188.197.53) on Thursday, March 15, 2001 - 06:53 pm: |
here's a question for you: I have had a crush on a guy for MONTHS! He works in the office next door so the only time I see him is at work, and since I work in a bank, it's not exactly a pick-up joint. We're friendly, smiles exchanged, etc. I'm dying to know if he is interested, but can't seem to set up a situation that would lend itself to more than a cordial "hello". Any ideas?