heh heh, well we are 98% identical to chimps as well - without anybody saying that humans are chimps....

By Mad_scientist (134.124.212.217) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 03:35 pm:

Roberto, the reaction by these racist groups do not surprise me at all, and it all goes back to this article. I found out by debating white supremacists that they are not capable of exercising logic. Because if race really didn't exist, then there is really no such thing as "race mixing".

What this suggests to me is that W.E.B. Du Bois, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, and El Hajj Malik El Shabazz (Malcolm X after his pilgrimage) were all correct near the end of their lives. And that is that the "race" problem is really a "class" problem. In additional, it is a cultural problem. If blacks and whites are genetically the same, then why do racist organizations continue to be very against "interracial mixing"? This is similar to social classes in fuedal Europe, in which the rich did not mix with the commoners, even though they knew that they weren't that much different. And that type of "class" system is derived directly from culture. So their arguments that the races were so different was only the icing on the cake. It was an excuse to continue their culture. This is related to the concept of memes, and a good book about it can be found here. While I don't agree with every aspect of here "meme" theory, it is certainly a very good and original read. So basically, racism is a meme, and memes try to find every way possible to survive. Now that the meme cannot support itself using science, it can only sustain itself through religion. So look for several new racist religions to appear to justify the existence of the race meme. Anyone else have any other ideas on why they are so adamant at this, and will not give up the concept of race and interracial unions in the light of scientific evidence?

By Roberto (152.163.197.187) on Sunday, February 25, 2001 - 12:58 pm:

Mad Scientist and Hector:

Go to site http://genome.ucsc.edu for the work that is currently in progress by scientists on this human genome project. Its fascinating.

Note: Racist groups are in a uproar over these new findings on the sobering news that humans are far more alike than they are different, in that humans are 99.99 percent the same. They are in a frenzy to learn things that separate us really are skin deep. There is now no scientific difference between humans. The racist group here in Virginia, "The National Organization for European American Rights", (NOFEAR) founded by former Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, David Duke plans to fight these scientific findings in a national campaign. NOFEAR is against interracial dating and marriage period. They fear this matter on human genome research will give a green light for race mixing. ~ Roberto

By Roberto (205.188.193.58) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 06:13 pm:

A web site where you can get concise information on the "Human Genome Project" is at the following:

http://www.ornl.gov/TechResources/Human_Genome/home.html ~ Roberto

By Roberto (152.163.204.64) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 07:38 am:

Ishvara:

You asked questions, "Why would it help us understand why some racial/ethnic groups excel at certain things? Is he proposing a genes for those traits?.

Good questions. My assumptions based on numerous readings is that there is an intense interest worldwide on what genes can do to make a better human. Some governments around the world are interested in knowing how the human genome can distill information for new drugs to create smarter humans, more capable humans for thier workforce etc. The comparative advantage for nations in the future is how intelligent their populations are to be to compete against other nations. This is a priority for such nations as Japan, China, Germany and others. The superhuman, one who has the best traits of all racial/ethnic groups is going to be the challenge for this and the next century.

Your second question about genes for those traits. I think Mr. Venter is saying if we can isolate those genes and package the information that we can decode, we will be able to create vastly superior humans with drug treatment. There are no doubt dangers and promise here for the world, but we do not know what the future of this will hold. ~ Roberto

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.29) on Thursday, February 22, 2001 - 01:43 am:

wyatt, in response to your post, i can simply say "only the fittest of the fittest will survive". it reminds me of the john lennon song "imagine". *s*

By Hectorvelasquez (65.160.181.66) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:10 pm:

Ishvara you are right in that small mutations lead can lead to all sorts of defects. What I was trying to get at was, that there are some people who might hold racist beliefs and say, for example, the genetic difference between humans and apes is little over 1%, (not really that much) and there is a BIG difference between humans and apes, hence a genetic difference of .1% between human "races" can lead to BIG differences between "races."

Another question, what percentage genetic difference if you will can lead to speciation? Is this the same for all forms of mammals? Probably not, but I don’t know.

By Ishvara (38.163.112.111) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 03:56 pm:

That's pretty cool Wyatt, glad I'm eight different nationalites!

By Wyatt (207.8.207.59) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 02:24 pm:

Roberto,

Thanks for such great information. This fact find concurs with the long held scientific, genetic discovery by the first geneticist(Gregor Mendel), who posited and found what he called "hybrid vigor". This hypothesis, if I can remember, I've been out of Univ. for 13 years, stated that hybrid peas were stronger genetically and produced more sustainable fruit than one which had been bred over and over from the same plant. In a human being this would mean that a pure blood english man, Jewish man or black man(women too) have a weaker DNA genetically than those who come into contact with others from different backgrounds. Take Tay Sacks disease or sickle cell. Both diseases concentrated in monoracial groups. It is not found prevalent in those people with hybrid genetic makeup.

By Ishvara (38.163.112.111) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:37 am:

Guess that's why there is such a negligible difference between races in humans and the slightest variance can cause retardation.

By Hectorvelasquez (204.248.134.224) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 11:29 am:

Playing devils advocate for a minute, because I have a little of the devil in me (it's genetic I can't help it) it is also true that humans differ by only about 1% in their genetic makeup with apes. Small differences can have a big effect it seems.

By Ishvara (38.163.112.111) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 10:56 am:

I'm very excited and pleased with these developements. It's about time the world is brought into a new era. It helps our arguements that no one is superior by having irrefutable scientific backing. It will be quite interesting to see how this pans out. I do think it will have an impact especially on the generations to come. Just a little confused though, why would it help us understand why some racial/ethnic groups excel at certain things? Is he proposing a gene for those traits?

By Roberto (152.163.201.62) on Wednesday, February 21, 2001 - 10:23 am:

New data that is coming out that will challenge the long held racial beliefs on the inferiority and superiority that are used to justify the separation of the races, and that is all human are genetically identical.

Craig Venter who is the head of Genomics Corporation that is joined with a worldwide consortium of scientists mapping the human genome are finding that 99.9 percent of the DNA between the races is identical. Mr. Venter said, "we are finding that many Africans or people of African descent are more closely related to caucasions. Distinctions between asians and caucasions are virtually insignificant". As reported by a panel of distinguished scientists, "the power of science with the help of supercomputers will be used to eliminate public perceptions of racial superiority and inferiority, which is the basis of racism". I guess I have to say, time will tell. There will be resistence still to any scientific inquiry. Hell, there are many people who still refuse to believe that we been to the moon.

"By mapping the human genome, it could be a pivotal science in promoting the concept of one race, the human race", says Mr. Ventor. I myself, think, this thinking will be in the decades ahead to have the greatest impact on interracial relations. "These new insights in genomic mapping will help explain why some cluster of racial/ ethnic groups tend to dominate in certain activities, such as Jews and Asians on stringed instruments, Russians in chess and Africans and African Americans in track and many other athletic events", says Mr. Venter. Like the old chinese proverb, "May you live in interesting times". ~ Roberto