WW/BM VERSUS WM/BW
WHITE WOMEN AND BLACK MEN: CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN BLACK MEN AND WHITE WOMEN: WW/BM VERSUS WM/BW
Teens and Interracial Dating on television
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/entertainment/010206/5126064.html
One thing, is that the estimated number of humans left after the population bottleneck about 75,000 years ago ranges from 1000 to 15,000. I also watched a program either on the Discovery and Learning Channel on this.
Here are a few sources:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DyeHard/dye990526.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views/121800-101.htm
http://www.personalmd.com/news/a1999042612.shtml
http://www.geocities.com/archaeogeo/paleo/bottleneck.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1058000/1058484.stm
http://biology.uindy.edu/Biol345/LECTURE29/lecture29.htm
http://www.newscientist.com/usa/subway/cruelworld.html
http://www.pages.org/bcs/bcs023.html
http://mail.williams.edu:8000/guest/archives/biol102st-l/log0002/msg00001.html
http://www.geocities.com/archaeogeo/paleo/genome.html
Mad Scientist I LOVED your response, so perfectly articulate, free from bias, educational and straightforward. The views you expressed hopefully will help whoever reads discover the truth of who we are as humans. I think perhaps the problem is most people have not studied ancient and relatively present history. They do not have a deep understanding of the world at large, they are stuck in a particular time period and mind set. I was aware of the gene mapping and its implications but I had no idea most humans were wiped out leaving around 3,000. Do you know where I can go or what I can read to learn more about this? I wish they would teach these things in school and empathise what this means. You are right though something which fills me with happiness, teenagers and the younger generations are so much more race blind. The teaching that there exists different races is one of the biggest lies perpetuated to justify social conditions and its about time it was bared to the light of truth.
I've written a reply to "Sister Nubia".
http://pub45.ezboard.com/fmindkandysinterracialdebateandrelationsfrm10.showMessage?topicID=2.topic
I am also looking for a white woman to moderate certain sections of a discussion board I recently created. Sections that pertain to views that deal with white women and so forth.
If there are any latin women here or asian that would be wonderful as well as I am looking for moderators of all ethnic 'persuasions'.
There are several sections that could be moderated by a white woman. Also another black male moderator would be nice too to moderate sections that pertain to black men.
Let me know if anyone is interested. All you have to be is open-minded, have a good head for starting discussions and interacting with other posters and be communicative 
Mindkandy@hotmail.com
here is the link to the site- you can take a look at certain sections that can be moderated.
http://pub45.ezboard.com/bmindkandysinterracialdebateandrelations
Mindkandy
That women who posted that has some real deep seated hatreds. It is people like her who are fostering a climate of racial hatred. The points she made were laughable. She cannot back them up with facts. It is ridiculous chatter, spewing the same rhetoric of racists worldwide
Speaking of comments that are angry, ignorant and illogically biased, take a look at this message:
http://pub45.ezboard.com/fmindkandysinterracialdebateandrelationsfrm10
You will find that although this woman hates black/white interracial relationships period, she is curiously more upset at black men dating white women more than anything else and gives her reasons for it by saying that blacks who date whites are weak, insecure and self hating along with submitting themselves over the 'dominant culture' so to speak.
This is probably worse than that response from the DWG letter.
Mindkandy
Oh, I knew what you meant Hector- just generally speaking. As a matter of fact, they printed the letter from the 'disgusted white girl' in another issue of Sister2Sister magazine and I did respond to it. Unfortunately, it wasn't printed, cause I sure did give little miss disgusted white girl something to be disgusted about. :o)
Well London you and I think similar, I too strive not to pass judgement. Live and let live and each to his own, best describe my attitude most of the time. I do realize there often times are cultural differences and different dynamics between BW/BM and WW/BM, perhaps that accounts for some peoples attraction or aversion to eachother. I don't believe at all in generalizing anyone but I will concur if faced with the same continuously, I too would be a bit leary at first meeting, based on my previous experience, that is only natural. Everyone is definately entitled to their own opinion and the right to express it.
Ishvara,
Unfortunately, his experiences with black women throughout his life. And yes, his experiences with white women giving him love and respect, without undue judgement. Although again I must say, I do not agree with the wolf packing, but if he is to be believed their are men and women who do.
If you have not already deduced, I am very liberal. I expect adults to be sophisticated and able to separate issues and take a laissez-faire stand point on the doings of others, it is not my place to judge, unless it directly involves me.
That is too much akin to what happens to us: IR relationships. I will not emulate the same upon others, others that are consenting adults.
London
London,
"It is some of his experiences that lead him there that I identified with." His experiences with women or with life? Or is it white women in particular? Just trying to understand a different perspective/experience.
Ishvara & Anon2000,
Ok, I just reread some of maximus's posts: the wolf packin' stuff. No, No, NO. Not my style, nevertheless, Some of his other statements lead me to believe he as a black man has experienced some of the same transgressions I have, which lead to my comments.
To reiterate the point, I do not agree with his adulterous aspects. It is some of his experiences that lead him there that I identified with.
London
That letter was made in response to the Disgusted White Girl letter which I posted in the Interracial Marriage for Black Women section of this website.
If you ask me, it's comments like the ones in that letter that turn black men OFF. How can you complain about the black men leaving you for white women, when they are doing just the thing to drive them away to begin with?? I believe people can make changes as long as it's for the better... there's nothing wrong with changing your attitude or mindset, etc. if they call themselves wanting to get a decent man. No, a person shouldn't change for anyone else, but unless some changes of behavior/mannerisms are made, the same women complaining about the 'good black male shortage' (which to me is non-existent in my mind) will not GET a GOOD BLACK MALE if that's what they're looking for.
I re-read some of Maximus's post after reading London's comment and Anon2000 response. I value and respect all opinions and experiences however, the analogy of a women taking it and giving back to a pack of wolves I found disgusting. These ideas about women perpetuate a stereotype I fight against. Sure there are people out there like that and I don't judge their behavior afterall I'm not forced to participate but it does reenforce certain perceptions that is NOT the majority but many people seem to think it is. I was a little disturbed by London's remark "I believe I have had similar experiences that have lead me to white women." because I'm not sure what he's elluding to but based on the rest of his post it sounds as if he is talking about that same stereotype Maximus' seeks out. London, please correct me if I'm interpreting that incorrectly.
hector-
that article that you posted by the black woman talking about IR realtionships set me a blaze! this woman has no more intelligence then a white supremicist. she is pushing ideas that all racists thrive on. she and people like her are who keep the heartbeat of racism alive and kicking in this country. it is the old "separate, but equal" doctrine. first she says "if she a black man wants to be with a white woman, go and be with her" then she goes on and says but don't ever try and go back black because his face would be forever etched in their memory as being a black man with issues. she is one of those people who are on the fence. it's o.k to have friends of another race, but don't intermarry or pro-create. what really pissed me off is when she said that a black man would actually have children with a whiite woman so their children can have "good hair" what?!!!!!!!! i don't know about anyone else that reads her post, but don't you think that if someone creates a human being with you for the hair factor, the issues they have a larger than life? if it sounds like i am rambling and my thoughts are scattered, they are. reading that post angered me and the ignorance level this woman posseses is a phenomenon. she is obviously an insecure black woman who has been scorned and has nothing better to do than to preach garbage. she knows nothing about love because her heart is full of hate. She is pobably a woman with no man and no clue on how to make one happy, so she spews ignorance all day by writing ridiculous artiicles about the only subject that she has any knowledge on.... "ignorance".
Oh, P.S.-
(London)- no, it doesn't matter to me how you live your life, that's not for me to tell you how to deal with. Live your life as you see fit. I didn't mean to bother or upset you, so I'll leave it alone. :o)
Anonymous- no, I'm not trying to pick anyone up here... online romance is really not my idea of looking for love. Being as sensitive as I am, that statement rumpled my feathers just a tad. (lol) In actuality, I'm involved in a very happy and loving relationship at the present time.
London- I didn't mean for you to take offense to anything I wrote (in case you did), I just have a terrible habit of not leaving well enough alone... (when it comes to asking questions and still not totally understanding the answer you get) but I guess it's not up to me to get into the minds of other people, I just like enlightenment. I hope you've understood that I'm not one who is against IRs... actually, there are less outlets for those of us who are dating white or men of other nationalities. It's pretty well understood the number of black women who choose to venture into IRs are a minority in comparison to the bm/ww combination.
Those are question I really do not ponder. Why? hypothetical or real, they have not happened to me. If I was a sociologist, maybe then.
Also, I did not oneday up and say: That's it, I am only dating white women. It is more complicated than that; I am more complicated than that.
That's the problem, most black women that I have encountered seem to believe that on sight of an IR couple, they know what's really going, it's simple. And then go off the handle and act a fool. When insulted in public by black women, I do not return the favor; I am a calm and controlled person, when it comes to my temper, that seems to add fuel to the fire. Frankly I do not care, it hurts me more to return in suit.
Query: why does it matter to you what I or any other black man does, when it comes to relations with women?
Do you believe it is a reflection on you, who you are?
After reading one of Brown eyes posts, I was starting to think this was a site where you were trying to meet a man, by telling all about yourself. I thought I was on some singles pick up site!
Well then, I guess that is quite understandable to protect yourself from being hurt again. It's only natural, so I understand perfectly your experiences. However, some black male friends have addressed me with their problems with black women, and true enough, sometimes with all I hear I can understand why they and a lot of other black men have decided that the grass is greener on the other side. Now hypothetically speaking, what if these same black men have the same kind of experiences with white women or asian/hispanic/etc women that he had with the women he was initially trying to get away from? What I'm saying is that there is no study to my knowledge, of which race of women is least likely to hurt black males. If a man has several bad encounters with other races of women, does he stop dating them altogether too? Who would he then date? This is not to criticize you in any way because I understand where you're coming from. It's some of the black men I deal with on a regular basis that think that because the black women have done this, that, and the next to them, that they shouldn't expect to go through the same things with other women. Being a different race doesn't mean that they have less problems.
Oh, I almost forgot, who do you think has been by me step by treacherous step?
I came here to whitewomenblackmen.com, to see if their were other black men who have experienced similar things as I have, to make sure I was not only. Apparently, I am not alone.
London
Browneyes,
My experiences are used in the same way as one would use their personal experiences in life as general: Have you ever driven a car and been at a stop light, your window is down and the lights, left arrow and straight light, turns green; you hear a racing engine to your left and it's a speeding car running the light. I have on several occasions. Of those occasions, I have never been hit, but twice the car next to me had been side swiped, serious injuries have occurred. On other occasions, the speeding car to the left makes a choice to stop screeching their brakes and stopping.
Point: Do you think I am going to discount the signs of a car speeding along, running a red light, and traverse the lane just because in some instances the driver was able to stop? NO. My guard will be up, foot poised to slam on the brake. Just because I have the right of way, legally, does not mean I'm stepping on the accelerator, chancing serious bodily harm.
I AM USING MY PRIOR EXPERIENCES TO, PROPERLY, GUIDE ME, LEAD ME AWAY FROM HARM.
Now, imagine if I did get hit and survived. I do not now about you, but I would be even more apprehensive.
Analogously, I have been hit by several black females, throughout my life. I will not discount those experiences, no I will not.
What I have to do is progress with caution.
I DO NOT HATE BLACK WOMEN.
When I say experiences I mean vast life long, from kindergarten, to College, in many states, and many circumstances: from job interviews, to teachers, to peers, to nurses.
I work in a hospital with patients directly. Old, young, of both sexes, and of all races.
I have a great reputation, that I had to earn, steadfastly, and diligently, from not only the patients, but doctors and and nurses. I do my job and I do it well, to the consternation of my superiors who have been doing this for decades. I care about people and their health needs, unbiasedly.
I start medical school this August.
Who do you think I catch the most hell from, unwarranted: mostly black women, and some unwitting black male doctors.
Whereas, the hell I catch from the whites, who are initially biased, they get a clue and change their tune, abruptly. The black women nurses who work transiently, which is normal for all nurses, have me pegged, I AM A SHIFTLESS, LAZY BLACK MALE-WHO NEEDS TO BE CONTROLLED AND TAUGHT-WHO IS NOT TO BE TRUSTED. Only begrudgingly, do they stop their onslaught, with plenty of reservations, waiting for my to slip up.
I can go on and on... many different situation, at many different times throughout my life.
SO..., I most definitely rely on my experiences, unabashedly.
London
Anon, I don't go to Askheartbeat because I find the people there a little too hateful, and that gets us nowhere. Valid should love this.
I've come to the conclusion that Valid is just plain stupid. She'll take this obsession she has to her grave.
btw, hector (or anyone else who posts on askheartbeat ir boards), valid is "doing her thang" over there now too as "gracing"! will she never stop!?
london,
i beg to differ with you...you said, "You're as welcome here as any other black men who post at this site", to maximus.
i'm sure that the majority of us do NOT feel this way about slime like that, which is what i said what i did, and DO have a problem with him posting his "lifestyle" on these boards.
as far as i'm concerned, you are giving him your approval to return and i don't appreciate it.
ok??
Here is a very interesting artilce I found on the internet about some black women's ideas about black men dating white women.
At a very minimum, I also wanted to set the record straight. African American women do NOT want, nor are we jealous of African American men who are in relationships with white women! Honestly. When most Black women see a Black man with a white girl, we don’t look at her and say, “Oh, no she stole a ‘good looking, educated and loving’ Black man from us.” Nor do we look at her and wonder, “what is wrong with me?” or “what can I do to ‘get my act together’ so that I can steal him away from this obviously ‘together’ white girl?” What we, as Black women, really feel, is a cold indifference. The reality is that when we find out that a Black man dates white women, he ceases to be appealing in any way, much like when we hear that a man is gay. We even have a prejudicial cliché that goes along with this sentiment, “He looks like the kind of “brother” that dates white girls”--- a fact that was reiterated and reaffirmed in the thousands of emails that I received. In other words, Black women are not interested in Black men who are (currently or even in the past) dating white women.......................
When we see a Black man with a white woman, we usually look at these men and say to ourselves, “he probably has MAJOR issues” and keep stepping. If anything, we may commit his face to memory, so that when he gets bored and wants to hang out in a familiar place or needs a little “home cooking,” we won’t be foolish enough to think that he is authentic..................
My point is simple, if you are going to go that way….GO! If your interest is divine and sincere, we will know it and respect it. Don’t make excuses, don’t offer explanations, don’t “blame the victim,” and don’t use your personal issues or your issues with Black women as grounds for your relationship. Just do it! Don’t do it to “get back at us.” Don’t do it to make us “jealous.” Don’t do it because you want your children to have “good hair.” And don’t do it because one of our “chickenhead” cousins did you wrong. Do it because this is a woman who is respectful of you, your culture, your family, your spirituality, your people---and most of all, your Mama. After all, if this woman is truly your “soul” mate, she will eventually bear children who will look like the women that you have taught her to hate and to fear.............
The entire article can be found at, under.....
BlackmenBlackwomenWhitewomen
Thanks Ishvara- I look at it just the way you do, except for me, there's really no certain 'type' I look for. Sure, there's certain qualities you look for in a person before you get involved, but if you're attractive, then you're attractive, so pettiness like how tall, built, etc is really not an issue to me as long as you don't give me glaucoma. 
)
Hey Hector-
To answer your question, I hear repeatedly about the 'good black male shortage' from many black women. I guess it all depends... generally speaking, there are more people who do the wrong thing than those who do what's right. However, it's all a matter of where you meet people. It helps to establish a friendship over an extended period before getting involved with people because you get to see how they really are before you decide to go any further. I, myself, think there are MORE than plenty of good black men, meaning educated, well-mannered, friendly, respectful, funny, self-supporting, responsible, vision-oriented, with great personalities who absolutely ADORE black women. I think a problem is that because the IR scene is growing everyday, a lot of black women feel that just because so many black men have turned to white women, then there's an assumption that every brother who is more upwardly mobile and has things going on for himself is supposed to run after white women.
I know so many black men who have used white women for no other purpose than to get from her what he could and take off. Personally, I don't understand why some black women get upset seeing that type of scenario, because who would want to be bothered with a man who thinks nothing of them? There really is no shortage... when women are just themselves and their self-confidence and strong mentality is visible, that would be the way to attract the right people. When people see that, then they understand that you're in a whole other class, and people who aren't worthy of your time will not waste THEIR time wasting yours.
The way a woman carries herself I think, would have a lot to do with the kind of men she can attract. When people can look at you and know there's something different about you without ever having known you, it is the most wonderful feeling to know that you've accomplished distinguishing yourself from so many others.
Browneyes, do you really think there is no such thing as the black male shortage, even though there are many more college educated black women than men?
Have you ever read the Rant board on Blackvoices, the black women there don't seem to be too happy with "trifling" black men, even those that date black men exclusively?
Loved the way you expressed yourself browneyes, I too look at all races, attractive is attractive eventhough I seem to be most attracted to a certain type. Any generality in it's very conception is false. It irritates me when anyone lumps one group of people to together.
Man, it's been AGES since my last post here. Hope everyone's had a wonderful holiday season and all that good stuff... (yeah, it's been THAT long :o)) In case anyone forgot who I was, I'm one of the black women who frequented this site several months ago who also dates interracially, but I think I was turned off by some of the hostile posters who also were here at the time I was.
Anyways, regarding this post-I understand that some, and yes, a lot of black women have made it impossible for black men to deal with them. However, just as in any race, there are good and bad, and that is not restricted to the confines of a single race. I don't SEEK a particular race in my choice of a partner. One race is no more attractive than the next, and I believe that people should be judged by their own character and not by what past experience has been. When people judge people on the grounds of what past experience has been or what they see, they really miss out on what could be and the friendship of a wonderful person. I know because some of the same black men that complain about black women as being more this, that, and the next, have also lumped me into the same category, which is something I don't appreciate.
Those same women are a disgrace and humiliation to young, SELF-SUFFICIENT, CHILDLESS, BABY-DADDY-DRAMALESS,EDUCATED,PROPER-ENGLISH-SPEAKING black women like myself, because they make it near impossible for many of us to date black men if we wanted one. (not that there's any shortage-lol) My point being is that I don't deserve to be treated like crap or be passed over because of something I didn't do before a person can get to know me. My heart is bigger than most, and I'm very sweet, caring, and extremely attractive. I don't think I'm better than anyone else because I'm of high caliber, (God knows my name just like he knows yours) but the best deserve the best, whether they be black, white, hispanic, or martian.
ANON2000,
I was speaking for myself.
Who else was I speaking for?
London
Maximus:
A warrior woman can be a cinderella too. ~ Roberto
london, speak for yourself!!!! i'm sure that most of the other ww here don't feel that "maximus" is worth the time of day.
c'mon!!!!
Maximus,
Raw and brutally true are some of the words that come to mind when I read some of your posts.
Everyone has there own reasons for choosing what they choose, more power to you. Now, although I do not participate in the lifestyle you do, I do realizes it takes two ( sometimes three ) to play. Let's all not play dumb. Some of the adulterous aspects I do not agree with but for the most part, I have no problem with you.
I do not have a problem with you because, frankly, I believe I have had similar experiences that have lead me to white women, just not to the extremes that you have. Do not get me wrong though: on the spectrum from conservitive-right to liberal-left, I am more to the left. I have a brain and know how to use it, but I'll be damned if I knowingly allow my sexual-physical self atrophy and wither, not this man.
So, if you can find the partners for your needs and vise versa, you keep on keeping on. You're as welcome here as any other black men who post at this site.
London