Interracial Marriage for Black Women ,Too: An Excerpt on an Article from Black Woman's Perspective
WHITE WOMEN AND BLACK MEN: CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN BLACK MEN AND WHITE WOMEN: Interracial Marriage for Black Women ,Too: An Excerpt on an Article from Black Woman's Perspective
hector-
thanks for explaining what you meant. i took what you were saying in the wrong manner. sorry about that.
GOOD JOB LONDON! WE CHOOSE TO DATE WHITE WOMEN BECAUSE WE WANT TO AND THAT'S ENOUGH OF A REASON FOR ANYONE WHO COMES HERE AND IS A BLACK WOMAN WHOM MAY NOT AGREE WITH IR DATING.
Ladybug,
Can't handle the heat, can you. Recall: you addressed me first off this topic, not vise versa, first. One thing is for sure you can't debate a lick, not without using one of your "original" high school cop-out lines like: " your problem, not mine", or "you have some issues" etc. etc. Although, you are probably still in high school, which would make sense.
But Thank You for reminding me of the basic premise of why I come here in the first place: to find conversation and like mindedness with black men and white women who date interracially, to find out how they came about this path.
sayonara
London, it is obvious you have some issues. You keep getting off of the topic at hand which was about black women's feelings toward interracial dating. Now you have resulted to attacking my character and intelligence! I am amazed at your immaturity and your inability to handle my comments. I don't think you need to worry about me making a fool of myself. You should be more concerned about others noticing your evident animosity towards black women and your uncontrollable temper. London, I am through!
adopting the culture.. The mystisim of what you cant be or is actually realization of how strong the Af/A culture really is to live and tell about what was done to yours by our grandpas...maybe these white guys...really want to be like " mike" can you blame them. Or is the white boys have to go with what is in and the lifestyle and music is in..
As far as black women and the Grudge issue. I understand and yes it does get played out to.
I can also see myself venting like the disgusted white woman. Because we all get tired of things at times just like the sists view threw me. I dont feel her article was a vent( or maybe it was a vent and that mag used really poor judgement on placing it as a view) I feel she is just simply prejudice and probably lost her man to a white woman...sorry They should have a chose a different view in the magazine.. sistas..its like the old saying some sistas have "us white woman are used for a brother to come up or easy sex or a toy till he marries a sista." An excuse or sick reasoning to down play mixing of the races,prejudice,evolution of a new society with out "pure" breeding what are we dogs?
Ironically enough us white women get it hard the majority of sisters dont like us I/R's and the white population....oufda....So for us ww to put up with as much crap as we do....( are we reallly clueless or nieve or just mystisized) or do we just like a strong man.who happens to in the choclate flavor..and this board was a god send for us WW to have our BM show there views ands stick up for us to amongst the other hundreds of needs......HOME;-)
When I said, “I don’t care” what I meant was, there are some blacks that “care” and do not like seeing whites adopting black/urban culture. I don’t care one way or the other. I am not offended when some whites adopt “hip-hop” culture as some blacks might be. This is not an issue I see as having great importance to the economic/political state of the black community.
“i don't think ishvara was trying to say that your personal post was "junk". i think she was referring to the letter that you posted and she was giving her opinion on it.”
I know this.
ladybug,
Not only can you not comprehend, apparently you can not read fully.
You have given me and all who can read fully and comprehend a prime example of what I speak of. IT IS IN YOUR POSTS!
Your poor attempt to paint and downplay my words, and back track when you have been caught, is a feeble and old trick used by those who can not truly debate or argue their case.
I would suggest you get yourself a dictionary and look up the definitions of: 1) debate , 2) argument, before you continue to make a fool of yourself.
At first, I was opposed to educating people in the art of debate, the art of argument, but there seems to be a great need.
It is cathartic.
Reading may be fundamental, but comprehension is essential.
London
Take it easy London. I see that you might have a little animosity there. I was just telling you my side of the story. I don't want to go back and forth with you about this and that. I was expressing my views like you were expressing yours. There's no need to start an argument, it was just a simple debate. I'm surpirised I was able to hit a nerve that easily!
Discounting your personal opinions was not my intent. I was showing you a different side from a black woman's perspective. If you noticed I did say yes, black women have begun to place a lot of emphasis on material things. You and I agreed right there. But then I went on to say that it is possible for a black woman to love a man even when he has very little. Although you said that your experiences have shown you otherwise, I was telling you that I have seen cases where it HAS happened. Therefore, I was challengeing your observations by giving you mine. If you already knew that then great! I just don't see how pointing that out could get you upset.
If you had problems with black women in the past crossing a line with you, then that's you! Don't vent your frustrations out on me. It really doesn't matter to me that some black women said this and some acted like that. I am an individual and I expect to be treated as such.
I don't expect to be compared to other black women and have my comments labeled as the 'typical black female comments'. I didn't compare you to other black men although I easily could. If having another person respond to your posts annoys you then so be it. That is not my problem. I for one enjoy a good debate, but now I see that others can't always handle it without taking it personal.
hector-
you seem to be unable to address anyone in a manner other than showing signs as though someone has greatly offended you. you respond to posts beginning with "i don't care" and snide remarks. why don't you try a little subtleness in your responses. no one here has all the answers, not even you, which is the reason we are here discussing. if "you don't care" about others opinions, why waste your time responding to them?
i was already aware how "slang" started and where it came from, but thanks for the info.
i don't think ishvara was trying to say that your personal post was "junk". i think she was referring to the letter that you posted and she was giving her opinion on it. you'll find you get a lot more out of actually reading someones posts instead of skimming over them briefly.
good for you if you are proud of your proper speach. i am sure we can all identify with that, as we all want to have people believe we are educated when we speak to others.
it doesn't matter to me that you don't care.
Yeah chica I'm with you,
Seeing thugged out rich boys can be a little disconcerting. It is a little like a cat barking. I used to wonder what is it, that is so appealing. I tend to think a lot of it has to do with toughness, status. They do not truly know what it is to live in those surroundings, they only see the glorified, commercialised package. They are not seeing truth or reality.
At least now girl, they think you're cool...LOL...b/c of where you're from..that is so laughable all surburban hip-hops wish they had your background!
I agree Hector you are right it is more subtle. At least with Maximus he was speaking for himself based on his own experiences, that's his truth. Therefore it is real for him. He is living a stereotype I could say, or rather his life and likes/dislikes fit one that many ignorant people cling to as truth for us all. I took exception to this statement "the black man is more “natural” than the white simply because he has fewer things between him and reality, fewer wrappers, fewer artificial rules), therefore “wilder,” harder, and almost insatiable in his lovemaking." That again is somebody generalizing, grouping people together based on a common characteristic. How would this person know that all or even the majority of black guys are wilder, harder, and insatiable? It's the other side of the coin to those who say white girls are "freaky nasty" they do "things" black girls wouldn't do. Again I always come back to my own perception on life. I try not to generalise and it irritates me when people do and then claim to be an authority on the subject.
ishvara-
yeah, i see what you are saying. i kind of agree with the fact that the slang has evolved into a type of culture that people have adopted. hip hop and raps origin from the urban areas has reached deep into the suburbs and people try to imitate the lifestyle in which this music is portraying due to it's tremendous popularity. i don't know, i just find it funny that something that was such a hardship in my life that i tried to escape is such a popular issue right now. by saying "escape" i don't mean denying where i come from, but getting away from a place where we had to sometimes dodge bulletts on our way home from school. i still have love for my neighborhood and the good people there, but there were some bad things about it also. it's bittersweet. seeing this way of life glorified through music and watching people talk the talk and walk the walk of the hip hop culture, is sometimes funny to me. like when i see a rich kid, black or white, from the suburbs driving a $75,000 car driving around with hip hop music blaring and he's got that gangsta lean on, i can't help but wonder. not in a bad way though. i guess i just never thought people would embrace this way of living as openly as they have. i don't think people who have adopted this culture are sell outs in any way. it is just strange to see people want to know so much about it. i hope i made clear what i was trying to say. it's hard to explain. i know you understand ishvara!
The reason that "ghetto" speach became "black" speach has to do with the reactionary culture that developled in the 1960s. The most authentic black is the most oppresed black and the oppresed black is the "ghetto black."
Merilosa I don't really care if some whites adopt "urban/black/ghetto culture." It was just amusing that he thought I would naturally speak that way.
I'm actually proud of the fact that the English I speak is quite proper.
Ishvara
That "junk" as you say is a little bit more subtle than the stereotypes protrayed by someone like Maximus.
Melirosa,
My man made a comment the other day about THAT women speaking "ethnic" and coming from her it sounded like mockery. He thinks she was trying to be "down" with him but it just sounded ridiculuous to his ears hearing it from such "whitebred" (just b/c he's black doesn't mean he speaks like that). On a personal level he and I speak proper English and slang, that doesn't make him trying to act white or me acting black, I agree with you there. However, I don't think "ghetto slang' is even an urban surburban thing anymore it's been assimilated into popular culture i.e the hip-hop culture which is very popular with today's youth. They want to emulate them, speech, dress etc.
Hector,
That junk in your last post just perpetuates the stereotype I hate, black men are studs and the white women with them are easy.
I ask this question, for how long is one responsible for the past which cannot be changed, the here and now is all there is, not saying forget what has gone on before but to live your life based on history?!?!
hector-
i am going to tread this ground as lightly as i possibly can without creating a double standard situation. in previous discussions, there has been made mention to the fact of white females who act black. i am aware of what we mean by this when we discuss the topic. i don't see the need for white male/female to act so out of character to try and be "down" with other groups of people. however, and PLEASE let me stress the fact that i am just playing devils advocate, it has been said that when a black person is speaking in a way which doesn't include ghetto slang, they are acting white. i am able to say this because i am from the ghetto, i was raised in the bronx, and i know the difference. i myself can speak what some may call "ghetto" and i can also interact with people in a corporate boardroom and put on my "proper tongue" as my mother calls it. my family is hispanic from the islands and all of the hispanic people from my neighborhood speak "ghetto slang". i don't like the term talking black or talking white because although originally derived from african americans, the slang we use now has become much more of an urban language than "black language" and how can the whites stake a claim on "proper speach"? we all have the same amount of brain capacity to be able to learn how to speak in an intelligent manner, we just have to know when to use the slang and when not to use the slang.
i do see what you are saying though- about people acting like something they are not just so they can be "down". sometimes you get these kids from suburbia acting like they were kickin it in the hood their whole lives and i find it comical. it is funny, it's like watching a cat bark. i try and look at it as an urban/suburban issue and not a black/white issue. funny how the script has flipped in the past few years, i remember when being from the hood wasn't such a novelty. go figure.
Does a black man have a responsibility to the black woman because of everything they have been through in America?
That's the million dollar question.
Here's something else:
The reason the white woman was supposed to be intrigued by the black man was because he was so basic and elemental emotionally (which is true for the nonbrainwashed black, simply because there is no reason he should not be; the black man is more “natural” than the white simply because he has fewer things between him and reality, fewer wrappers, fewer artificial rules), therefore “wilder,” harder, and almost insatiable in his lovemaking. (Leroi Jones, “American Sexual Reference, Black Male,” Home)
I guess I should really have no apppeal then to anybody considering I met a white guy last night who acted "more black" than I do. Isn't if funny when a white guy who has hung out around blacks thinks another black guy is a "sellout" when he doesn't great him with "what up dog.........
For example the famous, now dead, gospel singer Mahalia Jackson has said:
I have nothing against intermarriage, except that it means a Negro man is leaving behind the Negro woman who has worked and suffered with him since slavery times.
This is where the anger is comming from I think.
The woman who wrote the first article I posted is actually has PHD and has researched BM/WW relationships.
The first article that I posted was written by a women who responded to Sister to Sister magazine about the DWG letter.
Some black women are not happy AL ALL with black men who date white women and think these black men have betrayed them.
Here is the article that generated so much controversy:
The DWG letter.
Dear Jamie,
I'm sorry but I would like to challenge some of your Black male readers. I am a White female who is engaged to a Black male, good looking, educated and loving. I just don't understand a lot of Black females' attitudes about our relationship. My man decided he wanted me because the pickings amongst Black women were slim to none. As he said they were either too fat, too loud, too mean, too argumentative, too needy, too materialistic and carrying too much excess baggage.
Before I became engaged, whenever I went out I was constantly approached by Black men, willing to wine and dine me and give me the world. If Black women are so up in arms about us being with their men, why don't they look at themselves and make some changes. I am tired of the dirty looks I get and snide remarks when we're out in public.
I would like to hear from some Black men about why we are so appealing and coveted by them. Bryant Gumble just left his wife of 26 years for one of us. Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, the model Tyson Beckford, Montell Williams, Quincy Jones, James Earl Jones, Harry Belafonte, Sydney Poitier, Kofi Anan, Cuba Gooding Jr., Don Cornelius, Berry Gordy, Billy Blanks,
Larry Fishburne, Wesley Snipes...I could go on and on.
But right now I'm a little angry and that is why I wrote this so hurriedly. Don't be mad with us White women because so many of your men want us. Get your acts together and learn from us and we may lead you to treat your men better. If I'm wrong, Black men, let me know.
Disgusted White Girl,
Somewhere in VA.
so true... especially when it's all races who are the foundation of what this country is. All of us have in some shape or form contributed to the growth of America. To me, it is ridiculous and senseless to even refer to each other as 'our kind', because I don't see how anyone can justify owning another human being, 'our kind' or not.
browneyes-
i agree with you and i believe we are all the "same kind" we are all human beings, so there should be "one love". we all have differences. we should recognize and celebrate each others differences instead of trying to designate one more superior than the other. people can learn so much from one another if they would just open their minds and hearts.
I think it would be real beneficial to the world at large if people stopped looking at others as their "kind" and started viewing people as humankind.
Well to answer the original topic at hand, I think it's wonderful that we as a society have progressed so much to the point where most all cultures are opening up to each other and embracing different backgrounds. I think that if it was really meant for everyone to stay with their own, we'd all be a homogenous society. However, when you have a melting pot of races and ethnicities, obviously it is inevitible that somehow or somewhere or another, there will be some cross-cultural interaction with each other. This is exactly why I don't understand white supremacist or black supremacist logic of 'staying with your own kind.' I can love my own kind, but I can love anyone else too.
Ladybug,
Yes, you did strike a nerve. Are you surprised or do you like to point out utterly conspicuous things?
You may be surprised by the next comment: You were not apprising me of nothing I did not all ready know. Of course I know it is a two way street and the same could be said of some black women's experiences. Operative word here is SOME.
May be I needed to explain my previous comments and posts in simpler terms.
Although in my post I did not use the word some, it was implied.
SOME are means SOME are not.
the post of mine that you quote has two key words, that any keen, and logical person should have pick up on: IF and SEEM. You obviously missed that, or you would not have use it.
You did not accuse me of generalizing, because I did not!
You felt the need to challenge what? My personal opinions? If you felt the need to challenge personal relationship opinions, then in that you are wrong. Those are my personal opinions; they are not open for debate for change by you. That is the line that some black women seem to cross time and time again, with me, a line in which you crossed.
Some opinions are factual opinions. Some opinions are based on personal experience. My personal opinions are both. Those are opinions simply not contestable by you.
Then you have to gall to tell me how I need to react to your comments?! This something, again, which leave aghast, by some black women. "You don't need to act like this, you need to act like that." My response is my response, if you do not like it, fine; do not tell me how I need to respond. That's outrageous!
There was plenty of need to get offended about. You are trying to discount my personal experiences, developed over a lifetime, ones which get reaffirmed, daily. Ironically, ones in which you reaffirm.
London
I have noticed that a lot also... how some black women stare at a black man/white woman couple, but wouldn't have given them the time of day had he been single. Now as a black woman, I personally don't care for the 'thugged-out' type of black male anyway, and as long as a man has a good heart and personality, I don't mind giving them a chance. Of course it's important that they have something they're trying to accomplish in life, but I think it's such a shame that a person will decide they want nothing to do with you without getting to know you first, but the story changes when the person they end up with isn't black.
Wow! I see I hit a nerve. Didn't mean to do that, but I'll continue to challenge peoples opinions which is ALL I am doing. Do not take it personally. The original topic specifically talked about black women's feelings toward interracial dating, and as one of the few or the only black woman on this board, I do have a right to express my views. Not unless people simply wanted this to be one topic where they could voice their negative opinions about us without any retaliation.
There was an interview with Wesley Snipes in Ebony magazine a while ago where he stated that he no longer desired black women, and that they continue to possess an attitude even when you ask them for a drink of water so on and so on. Wesley Snipes was never my cup of tea to begin with, but I am putting it out there for you all to be aware since obviously some weren't. If I can I'll try to see what issue of Ebony that article was in.
Now London, if what I said was generalizing, then let me direct your attention to your original post.You wrote, "...Are they worth anything? Or is it that they are only worth something when they have something, money. If pop music of today is on the pulse of black women, that seems to be the case:.." You certainly used a nice choice of words, but your message was loud and clear. You said that why should you admit that black men do bad things when you know for a fact that some do not. Well London, why do I have to sit back and agree with your statement about black women when I know that all of them are not that way. However, in my response to you I did not accuse you of generalizing. I saw that as your opinion and I respectfully yet firmly challenged it. I would also appreciate it if you would not place me into the same group as all of the other black women from your 'experiences'. I was letting you know that things work both ways. Black men have their faults just like black women, although it seems that you may want to ignore that fact. But at the same time have no problems in pointing out the faults of black women, including the 'fault' you didn't hesitate to point out in me. Yes all black men are not bad, just like all black women are not bad. I was simply asking you to see things fairly.
Now as for celebrity black men, I do know that they haven't dated white women for their entire lives. I have seen pictures of them with their ex-girlfiends when they were starting out. I do not get my infromation form gossip columns if that's what you want to believe.
Respect is having a high or special regard for other people and their opinions. I respect your right to date who you want and I respected your original comments, but I did feel the need to challenge them. There was no need to get offended or to take things personally. I just see it as the two of us defending our kind, which we BOTH have a right to do.
Swampfox8:
I meant the question in the latter part of my previous post to be directed to you to mean, "Are your white female friends aware of this as well"? ~ Roberto
Swampfox8:
Can you explain this psychology on the thinking of black women who would discount your existence, but will acknowledge your existence when you are in the company of a white woman. Help me to understand this human interaction between black women and black men. Are you white female friends aware of this as well? ~ Roberto
WELL PEOPLE, I DATE ALL KINDS OF WOMEN. THERE ARE ATTRACTIVE WOMEN IN ALL RACES OF PEOPLE! I JUST HATE THAT A LOT OF BLACK WOMEN ARE NOT INTERESTED IN ME UNTIL I HAVE A WHITE WOMAN ON MY ARM! I COULDN'T GET THE TIME OF DAY BEFORE WHILE SINGLE BUT AS SOON AS A NICE ATTRACTIVE WHITE WOMAN GIVES ME A CHANCE SOME BLACK WOMEN WANT TO COP AN ATTITUDE WITH ME. JUST BECAUSE I DATE WOMEN OF ALL RACES DOES NOT MEAN THAT I DO NOT RESPECT BLACK WOMEN!! MY LUCK IS LIKE THIS: I'LL MEET A NICE, ATTRACTIVE, EDUCATED BLACK WOMAN WHO I REALLY LIKE AND SHE WILL TURN OUT TO BE MARRIED. OTHER SINGLE BLACK WOMEN THAT I MEET DON'T APPROVE OF THE WAY I AM BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE THE GUYS IN THE RAP VIDEOS OR ENOUGH LIKE WHAT THEY THINK A BLACK GUY SHOULD BE LIKE.
Wow- I'm truly fascinated by the conversation presently going on... some points that have been made are truly on point. Anyways, this is my first time back in several months, so hello to everyone. 
)
I, personally do not choose to date one way or another. The spectrum of nationalities is so large, so why limit yourself? Many people talk about why they don't date one way or another because of past experiences. That's understandable, but when people choose their mates based on past experiences, it is really not much different than lumping everyone of the race you were dating and classifying them as 'non-dateable.' Just because a black woman may have gotten by for a little while by draining your wallet dry or maybe was a little too needy, who is to say that the next black woman will be the same? Black men in the past have gotten over on me because I'm a sweet and giving person. That doesn't mean I'll never talk to one again though.
The people a person has had past experiences with that may not have been of the best circumstances at the time make up only a tiny fraction. 7 or 8, or even 30 black/white women/men doesn't mean the whole population of them.
Ladybug,
Thank you for enlightening me on the meaning behind the song "Bills, Bills, Bills.
Now, my comments were based on my experiences, let me state that again- MY EXPERIENCES. You are doing something that is part of the primary problem that I have with most of the I have encountered black women do: generalize the worst example of black men to ALL black men.
Why should I have to admit that black men do bad things when I KNOW for a fact the some black men do not?
Also, not all rap music is bad.
Albeit, the are women in every racial make-up the do the same things I describe black women of doing. BUT, I have not experienced that in MY EXPERIENCES.
This research you speak of, how did you go polling these celebrity black men?
Or did you find the info in some gossip medium and then chose to draw conclusions for that: celebrity black man with black women then, celebrity black man with white women now... and then made the jump that he does not respect black women now. How do you come to this?
So, are you saying All professional black men with white women have no respect for black women?
Respect, how do you define respect? I don't do things in my personal life and choices to please the majority.
Ladybug,
What makes you think Wesley Snipes no longer has any respect? I do agree though, materialists do come in every shape color and gender. Some are sneaky about it others up front. I personally value my financial independence. I do not look for my mate to provide me with it. That puts me in a position to call my own shots so to speak.
London:
I hear what you're saying and I agree. But I do feel the need to speak up for black women on this one. Yes, TLC came out with No Scrubs and Beyonce and her children *laughing* came out with Bills Bils Bills. However, I think that one reason why certain black men became upset over those songs was because they probably hit home. You have to admit those somgs do have some realistic basis to them. They mostly talked about responsibility (living with parents, not caring for their kids...). Now, for some reason eveyone seems to misunderstand the meaning in the Bills Bills Bills song. I don't think they were asking the man to pay all of THEIR bills, but if you listen to the lyrics you'll understand that they want him to pay the bills HE created from using their stuff. Black women do have their share of degrading songs, but black men are FAR from innocent. Some of the stuff I hear these rappers talking about is utterly disgusting and it is so degrading to their women. I have not heard any other race of men put down their women so much as, well, you know who. Its quite embarressing if you ask me.
I always find it amusing how black women will be criticized for their actions when other races of women do the same thing but no one complains. True, black women have begun to place a lot of emphasis on material things, but so have other women. I notice that when other races of women marry for money people say that its natural for a woman to want a man who can provide and support her. But when black women do it, they're immediately called golddiggers. I was completely shocked when I watched that show 'Who Wants to Marry a Millionare' and the majority of women on there were white! So women who are out for money come in all races. Some are just sneakier than others.
Also I have done my research and it seems that a lot of those celebrity black men who are now with other races of women dated black women from the beginning when they really had nothing. It was black women who supported actors like Wesley Snipes when he first came out, but now his respect for them is no longer there. So it seems to me that men like him tend to turn their backs on black women once they make it big, black women didn't turn their backs on them when they were small. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't date who you want to date. I'm just saying that its good to see things fairly.
I do not base my present relationships on historical contexts that far back; I base them on the here and now, my life time, my life experiences. Census surveys on on how many IR marriages there are in America tell one thing: how many IR relationships there are in America, with a large margin of error, probably. One thing for sure, such surveys do not tell why these IR's are together, and to try to draw conclusions from a raw number like that is simply ludicrous.
People who base how they treat others on such statistics are ignorant.
In regards to the eleventh paragraph of the original post, how does the adage go: Rome was not built in a day. These professional men have to start somewhere, and it is usually at the bottom, with little more than a dream. What about those black men with potential and heart, with little to nothing, in the way of money. Are they worth anything? Or is it that they are only worth something when they have something, money. If pop music of today is on the pulse of black women, that seems to be the case: "I don't want no scrubs", "Can you pay my bills"...
Who would you want to spend your time with- someone who treats you well from the get go or someone who's love and respect is given on the condition that you have BIG dollars, and fame. The former is who I want, it just happens that the ones who treat me like that are and have always been white women; therefore, I seek that out.
The issue conspicuously clear to me.
wow Roberto you always amaze me..
Im going to have to watch TI and alley..
The article well.. Did they have the white girl/ Or a sister in a I/R marriage? Mans version both I/R ok and not ok?
Media its amazing...
interesting? " Go after the brass ring ourselves"
"become colorblind"
But the catcher is so sadly.. That black women do feel so much pain as Roberto stresses
This statement says it all
"After all, we are worthy of African American men - and worthy of everyone else too. "
I do fully believe as much effort as we put into our relationships ties love for our black men we must also put into our sisters even the ones who hate us...They can call it suck up... I call it change and acceptance because half of them are so hard headed you have to be a rock in front of them with a whole bunch of padding.....and I actually dont blame a sister.. But I will make dang sure she looks me in the eyes and realize I am an OK person at some point she will have to acknowledge that and that sometimes is the hardest factor... But when a sister can say " yeah your ok" It feels like hearing a white redneck saying yeah your ok..sorry.. but its how I feel and what so many sisters project..and there is the total other side of the loving accepting mamas and sisters..I know them to and I luv them dearly;-).... yes the majority of sisters will or have had a harder lifestyle then me and I damn sure do not want my little baby girls to have that thorn in there heart