ok, in regards to celticman...i did not say ANYTHING about a "fetish." i was simply saying that if the person treats you well, and you like them for who they are then that is all that matters. geez, no need to get all psychological on me. before you question my morals or issues with my relationships, why dont you look at yourself. oh and by the way i am IRISH. and i would not think about giving up my family, they either accept it or dont. and Wyatt, i'm guessin the comment about bein 20 and having to worry about parents reactions to what you bring home was to me? yes of course it matters. i am 20 and i respect my parents opinions to a point. now they do have an opinion and only that. if i love the person of course i'm going to do what i want. but my parents mean the world to me and without them i dont know what i would do. so if they are in any way ashamed or upset with me i'm going to care.and thank you Aarm for your post. i appreciate your comments. at least someone understood me.
B

By Wyatt (207.106.60.7) on Monday, July 2, 2001 - 10:47 am:

Well, first of all what type of fetish are you referring to, Celticman? You consider it a fetish to love other people? Well that is your own views, but only yours.

You are 20 and still have to worry what your parents think? It is your choice who you love, whether they like it our not.

By Aarm (66.26.78.95) on Monday, July 2, 2001 - 08:32 am:

Celticman, I have been reading many of your posts on the board. I have decided to respond to this one because herein you seem to detail some of your beliefs, particularly regarding interracial relationships, thus allowing me to properly critique them.

Firstly, regarding the issue of preserving one's "ethnic heritage" I reply with a statement a very wise man once said several centuries ago: "If any of you is exceedingly prideful in one's lineage, then let him go and bite the head of his father's penis".
Clearly, the idea being conveyed is that it is absurd to be arrogant and prideful regarding one's lineage/race/ethnicity when one had absolutely no control over which lineage/race/ethnicity one was born into. You could have just as easily been born as a Pygmie or an Eskimo as you were an Irishman. So why have pride in something you had nothing to do with? Especially when that same pride most often leads to horrible acts of violence.

Furthermore, in regards to the rascism that the English enacted on your Irish ancestors: There is a difference between your daughter becomming attracted to a black man (or any other non-Irish for that matter), vs the racist and vile legislated attempts to breed you out of existence by the English. The former is what often occurs naturally when individuals of different origins meet; the latter is due to one group of people feeling threatned by another and seeking to terminate their existence completely. Taking issue with your daughter for her being attracted to someone of a different complexion is no better than the rascist attitude the English took with the Irish in the historical example you cited; especially since the circumstances are so clearly disparate.

Also, in regards to your statements to Stature4 about her "fetish" for black men: I disagree with your statement that, "You say you want your parents to disregard your partners skin color as something that isnt an issue but yet are attracted to the skin color itself?"
In all likelyhood, Stature4's parents are taking issue not just because her lovers tend to be black, but because of a negatively percieved image that they have when they see a black man. This is usually the sterotypical, ignorant, view that many whites/blacks may have about other races. Also, there is the perception that the family's social status will be diminished if their daughter/son marries a black person. This perception maybe valid depending on what type of social circles ones family alligns itself with, but it does not make it right or just. So I ask you, Celticman, if your daughter wanted to marry Collin Powell's son, or Kofi Anon's son, would you be as against it as you would if she wanted to marry a lesser known black man?

And as far as this idea of a fetish is concerned, I dont think that in all but a few cases IR relationships are fetishes. I'll give you and example: My family tends to be very athletic and psylogically predisposed to being lean and muscular. Consequently, all my siblings and I tend to be attracted to the same when looking for a mate. That is with the exception of my younger brother who prefers fat women. It is something that I had trouble understanding while growing up. No one in our family is obese, yet my brother prefers fat women. I have come to terms with this fact and I have realized that his preference is innate and is a way that our species (humans) maintain a level of diversification within itself despite our bigoted and rascist tendencies. My brother being attracted to these wome is no different than a blonde man prefering redheads, or a tall man preferring short petite women.

The problems occur when one group begins to feel that they are inherently better than another and that the other group no longer deserves to be existant based solely on societlal differences.

I would like to discuss some of the other issues you mentioned in other posts regarding religion, etc, but I would also like to respect the rules of this board and only post topics related to IR relationships. Let me know if you are interesed and we can exchange emails and discuss it in another forum.

AARM

By Celticman (12.90.174.198) on Monday, July 2, 2001 - 01:46 am:

ok...i am 20 and bringing home a black guy would not be a good idea. i already know my parents views, we have discussed the matter. at 16 i think its a little different. i know now, i would not try to do this. its hard thought because you dont want to keep it from your parents, and your scared of what they might do. i know in my case i wish my parents could take the person whom i bring home for who they are, not the color of their skin. thats the most important part. if thise guy treats you well and is there for you then there is nothing wrong with that. its just that some of our parents were brought up in a different environment and they do not like black people because of what they saw. they hold onto that forever and it is hard getting your point across. im sure if your parents got to know him well and saw that he was right for you and that they could trust him with their daughter things would be fine. its all about communication. good luck!
B <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


You say you want your parents to disregard your partners skin color as something that isnt an issue but yet are attracted to the skin color itself? The question you ask is ridiculous as obviously to you, your fetish is toward the idea of dating someone you perceieve as diferent while expecting others to fail to see the same diference. Do you see the problem here?

Also your parents might see you someday contributing to your ethnic heritage, this is completely out the window now. From an Irish perspective if my daughter came home to announce that she wanted to completely discontinue our lineage I would have a very bad reaction. I dont know what ethnic group you come from but my own sees this as offensive because it is based on the same racist ideal and strategy that the English attempted years ago. They had it in their heads that they could forcefully breed us out of existance by spreading negative racial steriotypes and enacting laws to give them access to all married non English women. My ancestors violently revolted and eventually won. Irish American women have a hard time getting their parents to willingly give up our heritage to this day regardless of the skin color their prospective mate may have.

You may have to give up your family depending on thier views in order to persue this fetish. Before acting look within yourself to see if you are willing to go that far.

I dont post here to offend, its just honsety.

By Stature4 (152.163.201.58) on Sunday, July 1, 2001 - 01:09 am:

ok...i am 20 and bringing home a black guy would not be a good idea. i already know my parents views, we have discussed the matter. at 16 i think its a little different. i know now, i would not try to do this. its hard thought because you dont want to keep it from your parents, and your scared of what they might do. i know in my case i wish my parents could take the person whom i bring home for who they are, not the color of their skin. thats the most important part. if thise guy treats you well and is there for you then there is nothing wrong with that. its just that some of our parents were brought up in a different environment and they do not like black people because of what they saw. they hold onto that forever and it is hard getting your point across. im sure if your parents got to know him well and saw that he was right for you and that they could trust him with their daughter things would be fine. its all about communication. good luck!
B

By Mitch4599 (205.188.193.173) on Friday, May 25, 2001 - 06:31 pm:

Ash, Not sure if this situation is still on going since last post was from Feb.,but I am new to this site. Your messages reminds me of some of what I went through when i was 16. Just thought i would let u know , u never know what your future holds, i know u have heard people say this before, but let me explain. When I was 16 i dated a young black man and when my parents found out they were not happy. The guy and i ended up breaking up because he said he respected my parents wishes. Now 12 years later, we are together and have been for a year now. My parents still do not accept it, but i am an adult now. I am not saying your parents are right, but give yourself some time to grow and experience life. You will go through a lot of emotions, but u never know how things are going to work out. Not sure if this helps, but good luck and take care of yourself first and foremost.

By Zandii (65.5.128.100) on Wednesday, February 7, 2001 - 12:00 am:

Ash you be careful thou.. Espicallly if your father knows he is 18... You have to also take care of that love from outside forces and I pray your dad doesnt lay a hand on you because I know how a young man in love will want to react...Dont put yourself in the position to to hurt or lose what you love...just a thought... I always like to look at the worst scenerio first and then know it can be better! I wish you well, come see us again;-)

By Ishvara (38.163.112.38) on Monday, February 5, 2001 - 12:16 pm:

Ash,

I don't think there is a problem at all except your father's total disrespect of you and his complete disregard for your feelings. Just be safe, be careful, and try to see things with your eyes wide open. Good Luck and God Bless

By Ash1185 (152.163.204.181) on Monday, February 5, 2001 - 11:15 am:

He is 18. But I know that isn't the problem because I have dated many 18 year old white males

By Ishvara (38.163.112.38) on Monday, February 5, 2001 - 08:19 am:

Ash,

How much older is this guy if you don't mind me asking. I can well understand your hatred of your father, just please be careful, if he has an uncontrollable temper and you push your relationship in his face he could retaliate violently. Most of the post warned you away from him but I still remember 16 quite well and I know at that age I made decisions for me. I felt mature enough and noone could have told me anything. I treasure my experiences through that time b/c they molded me into who I am today. I guess what I"m trying to say is that, it is always hard to try to live your life for someone else.

By Ash1185 (205.188.197.52) on Sunday, February 4, 2001 - 09:44 pm:

Hey It's me again! well I respect all of your opinions and I thank you! But the obeying and respecting the parents thing- well you see i can never respect my father or ever have a relationship with him again. My father has a very bad temper and in these temper rages he has tried to strangle me...I am not sure if he would have really done it or not and i don't understand why he did it but i can never forgive for all the pain he has caused me! And my mother well she seems to think that i am only doing this to get back at my dad for what he has done to me! But that isn't true...i have always liked black guys...i am not sure why but i am attracted to them and white guys just don't seem to get my attention...i tired to explain to my mother and she seems to listen and i think she will come around...i just have to keep working on her! And to answer your question about me being in love with this guy enough to disobey...my honest answer is YES! No one has ever been there for me like he has...he respects me and he treats me great. I believe there is one person for everyone and i think this guys is it. We have been seeing each other for almost 5 months and we haven't had ONE argument. Maybe that doesn't seem like a very long time to yall but it is for me and it is very speical to me. And no we haven't had sex...but we do kiss and make out if that's what your asking...the guys is older than me and he has only had one sexual partner and that is one thing that attracted me to him...bc i also have had one sexual partner. But i have feelings for this guy and that i have never felt before and i can't lose this...i want to respect my parents but i have to go with my heart too...i have been reading alot about this subject and it has been helpin...now i just have to have enough courge to confront my parents in the right manner! BUT THANK YOU ALL! and I hope I will be hearing from yall!
ash

By Roberto (205.188.193.162) on Saturday, February 3, 2001 - 04:07 pm:

Ash1185:

My questions for you are: (1) Are you so much in love with this young man that you would be willing to disobey your parents, regardless of their views of him? and (2) Would your young friend be willing to forgo any sexual intentions (if it has not already occurred) with you, by first giving both of you time to explore your relationship together until the right time? ~ Roberto

By Zandii (65.5.128.100) on Saturday, February 3, 2001 - 10:21 am:

Hector another thing to take into consideration here besides the law factor. and the parent racist factor. How many young black males under 18 or older have been tried for rape behind prejudice parents( in which it was a mutual sex act) who are resonsible for there child. That to me is an automatic red flag thats why I feel she is better to wait till she is 18 she did not disclose if she is trying to be sexually active or going to wait. people of this age have a much different lifestyle then when I grew up. So just to be safe she should keep him as a friend because if the parents are that racist it will hurt a lot of people and if the parent are more the type to be educated on racism and diversity then either way this young lady wins. I also agree that talking to a family friend is a good outlet use all your resources to build you and your life.

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.44) on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 10:03 pm:

ash, i have to agree with the other ladies, your parent's decision is the bottom line at age 16. really, 18 is not too far off, it just seems like it when you're young! it's great to have friend boys (as opposed to boy friends), many times they last longer, and who knows, when you are older they MAY become your boyfriends!

hang in there!

By Melirosa (208.166.11.98) on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 03:58 pm:

hector-
no where did i say that that was the law. i said it was her parents law and when you are 16 years old, it is your law to follow. and i certainly at no point mentioned that she would go to jail. maybe you didn't read the post as well as you thought you did because you have blown what i said totally out of proportion. relax hector, you act like you took offense. no need for that so just chill.

By Hectorvelasquez (63.175.47.142) on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 03:23 pm:

No Melirosa, that is not "the law" and NO she will not go to jail for "disobeying" her parents for something like this.

I also said that she should not make life too hard for herself at this stage.

By Melirosa (208.166.11.98) on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 03:00 pm:

hector-
it's all good and well what you are saying, but at 16 yes you do have to obey your parents because they are the law. i mean come on, if you don't like a law set upon us a citizens because you don't agree with it, are you going to break and go to jail? i think not. maybe you might try if there is a chance you may not get caught, but is it going to be worth it if you do? this girl is struggling enough with the fact that her parents are like you say "racist". she doesn't need anymore strife by disobeying them. it would be easier just to try and keep things smooth until she is able to be on her own. at 16, you are still dependant on your parents and while you may disagree with them, you still have to "obey the law". i think it shows her good character that despite having racist parents, she was able to overcome their bigotry and teach herself different values. she'll soon be on her own and she will do whatever it is she chooses and she will follow her heart, regardless of what her parents think.

hang in there ash, it will get better and soon it won't matter who approves of your choices and who doesn't.

By Hectorvelasquez (63.175.45.206) on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 02:15 pm:

Hi this is Hector, let me chime in with my two cents.

Why should she honor her parents in this respect if her parents don't honor her decision? Does this have anything to do with the type of character of the person she wants to date?

None of us here know your exact family situation, we don't really know what type of people your parents are (except racist), or how they would react to certain things, or for that matter what kind of relationship you have with them, and it's really impossible to say anything. I don't know, if you decided to "challenge" your parents, would they come to accept it, or you would get kicked out of the house and disowned at age 18. I suspect that there are some other issues going on as well.

On the other hand you may find that you are not really attracted to black guys after all.

You have to balance remaining true to your self with not making life too difficult for yourself at this point.

Why don't you ask a family friend who knows your parents and your family situation better what you might do and how to go about talking to your parents?

By Svorhies (208.48.12.163) on Thursday, February 1, 2001 - 01:17 pm:

Ash
I have to agree with everyone else on this matter. At this time in your life it is best for you and the young man to build on a friendship and not have the pressure from family or others. It is very hard to be patient sometimes, but if this is something that you really want to do, the wait will be worth it. Even though you may not agree with your parents on this subject, they are your parents and you have to fallow their rules. And as Znadi stated, now is the time for you to help educate your parents. Be patient and all good things will come to you.

By Zandii (65.5.128.100) on Wednesday, January 31, 2001 - 03:17 am:

Ash hun ..I agree you have to honor your parents... that doesn't mean you cant dream and want him from a far...maybe your parents will see that he is a good guy and you can still learn and get to know each other at school etc...You only have 2 years until you are 18.That time will fly by and maybe you will be best friends by then and could you imagine what a wonderful boyfriend he would be to wait for you for 2 years and let your friendship grow and in time your parents will learn because they love you. Sometimes you have to teach parents to learn new things.. when we get older we have a tendancy to want to see things the way we were brought up or we don't like change sometimes... Your happiness and other things will show them how to start learning to accept and even enjoy.. Good Luck hun..Parents can suck at times because they do love you and only want the best for you. There are many girls who go thru this with their parents you are not alone..I'm sure you will find a way to make things work for you