Sabbadoo,

Excellent post, you are soooooo right on there.

A liberal is someone that talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk. At least with the conservatives, they will be very blunt with their beliefs, whether it is guns, law and order, hate, religion and abortion.

With the liberals you can never trust that they are honest or not. If they believe in race equality, then they should be as rabidly ardent about it as the religious right is or the hate groups are about their beliefs.

That is why I am a Progressive Republican. Open minded common sense, with honesty, liberty, freedom and responsibility.

By Sabbadoo32 (12.2.19.162) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 06:17 pm:

OK, I'm going to try humor here. Those of you without the humor "chip" ignore the following, because you will no doubt find it shallow and frustrating.

What do you call a liberal?
A person who believes in true racial equality.

What do you call a conservative?
A liberal whose child is dating a Black person!

Reading over Wyatt's and CMA's posts, this little ditty came to mind. I've always thought it contained a kernel of truth, that how a person reacts when their son or daughter dates out of their race is a good indicator of character.

Not to say the person has to trip over themselves in acceptance. When I have a daugther, she won't date until she's 60. And then only maybe. But it would speak volumes about me if I preach "We are the World " publicly, and behind the scenes persecute my child for dating a person of another race. If the guy's a bum, no matter his race, I won't mourn his passing. But if he's a good man, then that's good for me.

As for trophy wives, yes they exist. I work in downtown Chicago, and like to go to some of the classier places like Le Colonial, Cru, Harry's Velvet Room, and the like. The trophies come in on the arms of their respective Sugar Daddies. And every time I see them I think of the financial services commercial where the wrinkly old lady calls out to the buff young man–"Come here Jimmy!! Time to rub the bunions!" Then the voice over says "Looking for a better way to plan for your retirement?"

It makes me cringe every time.

By Wyatt (207.106.60.21) on Thursday, May 24, 2001 - 03:51 pm:

Sheri,

As far as the trophy wife, that applies not to black men only--it is more common with white males who take women(esp. blondes and Japanese wives) to prove their sexual and economic status. Look at Donald Trump and many men who take young wives.

Sheri, how can one be not necessarily prejudice and yet be absolutely racist when his daughter is dating, living with, marrying or sleeping with a black man. Dear, you can't be a little bit pregnant and you can't be a little bit racist. Either you are or you aren't. What is the difference between a white child being in your house and a biracial child being in your house? I don't quite understand--tell it too me like I am a four year old (like Denzel Washington asks in "Philadelphia"). So, tell me, what is different from a nice guy that your dad fishes with and one who loves his daughter? How does he see a white guy being better lover and mate than a black guy, and yet not be prejudice?

What is unfair about having a mixed raced child? Mixed raced children are healthy, happy human beings who are beautiful and have the privilege of having both cultures and being genetically stronger due to hybrid vigor. Do you know that bi-racial kids statistically have a very high rate of college graduate, equal to white and Asians of the same economic status. Interracial marriages have a lower rate of divorce, thereby giving the bi-racial child a strong sense of self and being economically safer than whites and blacks monoracial relationships which divorce at 43% to 50% rate. IR marriages divorce at 27%.

By Cma (216.249.87.130) on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 11:43 pm:

Sheri,

Your dad is part right. There are black men out there that want white women as trophies, although I don't think they are the majority. OJ Simpson is the perfect example. I think most us that do like WF tend to find them more attractive on average. Personally, I think that overall, WFs are the prettiest of all women and I think I have more in common with WFs on personal things than I do with most BFs. Of course, as we can tell by the personal ads section on this website, many are just about jungle fever and sex.

When that man told you that your boyfriend was beneath you, you shouldn't have let him off so easily. Of course he'd have to be pretty f*cking cowardly to wait till he leaves to insult him. If he were a real man, he'd have said it to his face. Perhaps simply saying, "and you are beneath him" would've been an appropriate and quick reply. What state do you live in, when I hear about things like this I always like to get a sense of where this is going on.

And don't worry about having lost friends over your dating choices. They were not friends. No friend would do that. In fact, be glad that you saw them for what they really were, because a real friend is there for you through thick and thin. I remember in high school when I was in the South, there was this blonde girl that sat next to me in class. We would sometimes chat about music or whatever else high-schoolers chat about. But I started noticing that when I saw her walking in the hallway with her friends, she would look real strange when I said hi or act like she didn't want me to say anything. I knew what was up, she was afraid her friends would think something is going on between her and a black guy. Screw people like that!

Whatever you do, don't think it's unfair to have mixed children. But if you do think it's tough where you live, there are always other places to go. California is generally a good place for IR couples, though there are a few counties I'd watch out for. I never hear about mixed kids having any problems here. It's very diverse and there is no longer any racial majority here. But you do have to realize one thing, and that's that if you are a white woman and you have non-white children, for all intents and purposes you will have moved down the social caste system to the level that blacks occupy. It's a f*cked up society we live in that we even view people like that, but it's also the truth, and that's something you must really soul-search and think hard about as a WW before you have kids with a BM. Because once you've done it, it can't be undone. And if you ever divorce, it would be extremely hard to find a white man that wants a WW who has born half-black kids. Our society places an invisible "scarlet letter" on any WW that dates, marries or has kids with a BM. If you love your man so much that this won't effect you, then I wish you the best. But you shouldn't be naive about what is going on around you either.

By Ishvara (4.54.118.63) on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 07:50 pm:

Sheri, I do not think it's unfair to raise a bi-racial child at all! I can only empathize with you. Thankfully my family is the complete opposite.

I know exactly what you mean about the public, my love and I barely go out b/c of his unease and bad past experiences. And the people who were once so sweet to you in the store now give you nasty hate filled looks. Mostly older WM are the worse, they look at me with such complete disgust on their face the like I haven't seen this whole of my life almost as if they're really ill. All I can say is go with your heart, trust in god, and live peaceful.

By Kansascity (209.242.125.95) on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 05:47 pm:

Sheri:
Living with a man you are not married to is a big mistake and waste of time...most people never take that type of living arrangement as a serious relationship between 2 people of any race!

Its just an arrangement for convenience sake...

When IR couples want respect (especially from their families) it is important to handle their relationship in a proper manner...and not try to experiment or throw all caution to the winds.
Preparation in all things is necessary to have a fairly decent life. Old saying goes "Don't put the cart before the horse".

Plan and organize your life so that what ever comes along their will be some structure to sustain all of your endeavors.
Hope you will find someone who appreciates and respects you. Love can come later.

Before you marry someone, you should discuss your parenting styles, how you each handle money, your religious beliefs, your world views, and where you want to live, find the best environment to raise your family.ETC.
Don't just let things be "happen-stance".
Sheri, if you miss the one who got away, you will survive.
In the meantime...keep getting yourself together to prepare for the kind of life you want. Hopefully the right person will be there for you and not be lost to every new wave of change.

By Sheri (66.12.20.194) on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 04:18 pm:

Modulis-
I too am obsessed with human nature and IR relations. The negativity I have encountered has made me a much better person. My goal in life is to write an autobiography entitled "A Love Story, in Black and White" So when you all see out there you can remember me! Nothing tests the true feelings of people until they are faced with black/white couples. My dad said the only reason a black man wants to date a white woman is becuase he can show her off like a trophy. SO SAD! That's like saying the only reason white women date black men is because they are larger than white guys. I am not attracted to white men and I want to experience something that I am not. I guess that eventhough I have had countless negative remarks the positive experiences outnumber the bad ones. I was out with a man one night and he got up to leave for the rest room and the old white haired man, next to me looked at me and said, "that man is beneath you" and walked away. I was too stunned but I wanted to reply "hopefully, he will be tonight" just so I could watch him faint away in disgust, since he disgusted me so much! My Dad and I have a good relationship,it is tested time an time again though. I guess I have to be the better person and look past that, because he won't change. My mom is on my side but I feel sorry for her because I don't want her in the middle. I have lost good friends over my choice in dating. It is especially hard for me because of the small community I live in that is majority white. I was also considered the "good girl" in school and people don't seem to understand what happened to me. I don't really understand it. I want children so badly but it truly scares me. Is it unfair to raise a biracial child. I see the positive and hope the best of both worlds for them but other children are so mean and so are some adults. People like us are the ones who change the world. Peace and Happiness!

By Modulis (216.249.87.138) on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 03:36 pm:

Sheri,

Why is it that you say you cannot find a relationship with a white man? Is it that you are simply not attracted to them, or is it that they do not seem interested in you? And also, why is it that you seek a man outside of your race, I'm curious.

Now that you are broken up with your boyfriend, is your dad treating you normally again, or have his feelings for you been permanently damaged? I could imagine on your end, you will never see your father the same again. All people have beauty and ugly inside them. Most of us are able to bury the ugly in most cases and are outwardly respectful and polite towards people. But in America, there is something about IRs, and particulary involving BM/WW that brings out a primal ugliness in people. Like seeing a sophisticated person instantly revert back to savagery. I remember hearing a radio show where a WW said she dated a BM here in SoCal maybe in the late 70s I think it was, and she couldn't believe how many people she'd known were mean all of a sudden. She said that cute little old ladies who she normally would've thought were polite were very rude and gave dirty looks. She said they were shot at by a passing car while they were at a restuarant.

Over the last few years, I've been obsessed with trying to understand the nature of the public reaction to B/W relationships, and BM/WF relationships in particular. Why a normally reasonable, loving, polite and decent person can instantly turn into an angry monster because two people of different skin pigments love each other. I just don't understand it! I can think of few other circumstnaces that can alter people's and attitude so abruptly. Perhaps drugs or alcohol can do this, but I can't think of anything else. It's like there's something very ugly, hidden deep within people that is flared up at the sight of a BM with a WW, and few things have the ability to touch people off in this manner. I'd bet that most white parents could better handle their daughter being a lesbian than their daughter marrying a BM. I don't know what this dark side of human nature is, what put it there, and what it will take to eradicate it, but it doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon. Maybe some day I'll write a thesis on the subject after I've compiled enough thoughts, data and information.

By Sheri (66.12.20.194) on Friday, May 18, 2001 - 01:49 pm:

I know this is an old topic that goes WAY BACK but it's nice to have some support. I am a 28 year old legal assistant that is financially self supportive. I live on my own and ask nothing of my parents. I am extremely close to my parents and siblings. I am the eldest. My last serious relationship was with a black man. We lived together for a year. My Dad stopped calling my house, would not come over, never met my boyfriend and never wanted to. Never looked him in the eye, asked how he was doing or shook his hand, man to man. The one time my Dad did stop by, he saw my boyfriend and turned on his heel and walked out - waiting for me to go outside to speak to him. This is my Father! The worst thing my Dad has ever said to me is that my future children will not be allowed in his home. Tears were shed that day. Although me and my boyfriend are apart right now, I still can't help feeling that I will eventually, hopefully marry a man outside of my caucasian race. People tell me that when things get serious, my Dad will lighten up and change his mind. I don't think so. My Dad is not necessarily prejudice to the entire black race, he has been fishing with black men and works with them. I don't think he can get past the idea of his daughter living, loving or sleeping with a black man. I envy girls whose families don't see the color or issues. Nothing I say or do helps the matter. He ignores the situation all together. Yet he would do anything for his children and my siblings' spouses who have many faults of their own. He has 2 grandchildren already and adores them. I am terrified of having a child someday that feels he or she has to compete with cousins for love from their grandpa. Sometimes I think I should just find a white guy to settle down with and start a family. Things would be easier. I can't though and so am very afraid to enter into a serious relationship. Any advice from anyone out there?

By Sn00kette (63.253.74.25) on Thursday, April 5, 2001 - 10:39 pm:

Anon,
I am 24 yo and am quite in love. Love isn't enough though. We are best friends and been through a heck of a lot. With my family being racial and the passing of his brother last April and him having a heart scare, etc. We weathered all the storms and we're still together. We will be forever and I'm certainly confident in that. We love one another, we're best friends, we trust one another, we support one another, we're a team and that's what this rough world requires to make it.
Thank you for your feedback, KansasCity. Like i said, i just had to get that off my chest.

Now i got to do homework. I have 4 finals coming in in 4 weeks.
Bye, Snooksss

By Kansascity (209.242.125.148) on Wednesday, April 4, 2001 - 10:45 am:

WoW! Your in dreamland. You and your friend could very well have the makings of a great marriage, then again maybe not. You apparently think he is the ONE! If you think it gets better just because you get away from your mother, it could very well get allot worse. You say you want to get away from the hate? Well, hate is just about everywhere these days. If your going ahead and getting married (do not live together first) at least find an environment where the hatemongers don't live. Also, give your marriage about 5 to 7 years before having children. If your marriage lasts that long, it will probably continue. You won't end up rasing your precious children to be.......alone. Children need both parents. Take Care :-)

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.103) on Tuesday, April 3, 2001 - 12:30 am:

how old are you?

By Sn00kette (63.253.74.45) on Monday, April 2, 2001 - 10:01 pm:

Hi,
I have this mega problem. My mom says she likes my fiance but I know this to be not true. She says her generation (she is 50yo) doesnt interracially date and dont approve of it. That is not true because the man i am marrying is 49 tomorrow and he and his family is fine with it. Its always the white family that has the prob with it. 98% of my family hates it and i dont care about them if they cant accept me and him. they dont mean anything to me and never did anyway. My mother's mom doesnt care at all - shes cool and just hope i am happy. But my mom needs to open her mind and heart and realize that i am very happy and he is not ever going anywhere. id wish she just care about me and my happiness and not how her and everyboby feels about it. i may have it a little tougher out there with prejudice and all but that does not bother me one bit. i am strong and in love with a great wonderful man that i would do almost anything for. he makes me happy, very happy. we make each other happy. i am happy just thinking about him, which i do about 99% of the day and night, even in my dreams. but we may have an occassional spat, but my mother will hold it against him until he dies. she says that she degrades him and talks sh_t about him because shes preventing me from going head on into a brick wall and shes trying to save me before i make the biggest mistake of my life. i am a full grown adult and have been with him going on 7 years this october. she says she will try and get me to "see the light" so that i may leave him and give the white race a try and will not stop until he and i are married because then she cant do anything else to "save" me. i tell her to leave me alone and to leave us alone. i dont tell her much about him anymore because she always finds something bad in it and wont shut up about it. shes called him an n, and not worth the dirt i walk on. he is a great person, a loving person, a hardworker (he works 6 days a week, has 2 jobs) and has always worked 2 jobs since ive known him (in 1994). he saves money every week and has two bank accounts as i do. i am a full time student and i work part time while i attend a private university and i work full time in the summer, to save all the money i can. we are hopefully moving out (he lives with his aunt and uncle due to unforeseen unfortunate circumstances - they are really old and dying too) and i still live at home for free. by the end of may we should be out. i need to get away from this hate. sometimes i think my mother hates me because she sees how her anger and hate of him bothers me so and hurts me. but she doesnt care and will say anything to hurt him. they stay away from each other and do not like each other. he knows all about her. it doesnt bother me so much now because i am used to it but i wish it would stop. i think my father should have married a better woman than her. he could have done a lot better and still can... i hope the 2 of them will one day be able to be civil to one another because they will have to at holidays and when we decide to have children. ive tried talking to her but i dont get anywhere, i just waste my breath. Any Advice Peeps??? Thanx i just had to get that out!!! :0) Snooksss