I grew up in a predominately Italian neighborhood, so my experiences are a bit different. One - Italian-American women are way different from Italian-Italian women. Lots of hair spray, I mean lots. And as for the girls, they could be attractive, if they didn’t cake on the makeup. I knew too many girls who would ruin their lovely dark hair by frizzing it and blow drying it till it was tougher than a football helmet.

If I were to identify one physical aspect of Italian women that is their selling point - it would have to be their shapely behinds. A fit and healthy Italian woman’s butt can distract a man’s attention from whatever he is doing at that moment. I don’t think I’m the only Indian who feels this. After all, Rajiv Gandhi, the late PM of India, married an Italian woman. I personally know of two Indian guys I grew up with who went on to marry Italian women.

By Hectorvelasquez (63.169.132.218) on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 03:43 am:

Here is an interesting map of Italy.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/europe/Italy.jpg

By Hectorvelasquez (63.169.132.218) on Wednesday, April 25, 2001 - 03:39 am:

Rome is actually not really considered part of the south. Il Mezzogiorno (the Land of the Mid-Day Sun) is roughly everything south of Naples. I wouldn't make too much of the north-south split since you will encounter people from the south in the north. The people I met from the south were just as open, as those from the north, although I don't know if I would go to Sicily looking for an Italian woman. It all depends on what town or city you are in because there are some cities in the north that are just as closed to foreigners (Here foreigner includes anybody not from that city including other Italians) as there are in the south.

If I were going to live in Italy again I would choose either Rome or Milan or some place in Tuscany. Milan seems a little more "hip," but not as "Italian" as Rome. I would travel ALL OVER the country before I made any decision.

There are not nearly as many blacks in Italy as there are say in France. In fact Italy is rather homogenous. I was actually surprised by how many blacks I saw in Paris after living in Italy. In Roma you will encounter Africans hustling their wares. Many of them, if not all of them were brought to Italy from poor countries, by the Mafia to work on the streets. The other Africans I saw were African students and I have found they sometimes know quite a few Italian women.

What are the attitudes to IR dating? Funny stares? You can't help but run into somebody interested if you can speak some Italian. I wouldn't worry about getting harassed in Italy, but then again I don't really worry about getting harassed in America when I've got my arm around some women I met out somewhere.

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.133) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 09:40 pm:

dreadlocks, huh? props to you, young blood, for going natural and bucking the system that attempts to mold you the way THEY want to see you - natural is the only way to go, imo...!

By Modulis (216.249.87.150) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 03:25 am:

Hector, your reports are very encouraging! I'm a dreadlocked brotha, and I do have a fashionable and sometimes "hiphop" look. I guess they'll really be wondering here I'm from. I was thinking of going to Rome, should I stay more towards the north do you think?

Oh, and by the way, do you know how they react to IR dating in Italy. It's pretty cool I hear in places like London, Paris and Amsterdam. How open are they in N. Italy? Think you'd get as many funny looks there as in the U.S.?

By Hectorvelasquez (63.169.132.218) on Tuesday, April 24, 2001 - 01:01 am:

No, American does not mean white ONLY in the minds of Italian women, however remember that most young American men who do travel to Italy are white and much of the popular culture that America exports feature whites characters so this might color what people expect. Everyone knows about Denzel Washington and Michael Jordan. I actually met more Italians than my white counterparts who were studying with me. The major barrier for me was language since most Italians don't speak English that well.

Italians are very fashion conscious, pay a great attention to how they dress, and tend to be rather "image oriented" (notice I did not say image conscious). One guy from Germany told me that he saw an Italian waiter wearing a Rolex. Do not dress like an American, no sandals, flip-flops, shorts, Hawaiian shirts, or other types of cheesy outfits. Dress like you are out of Code (it doesn't have to be expensive just show some sense style or being well made) or perhaps even like a "hip-hoper" and look like you are from LA or NYC and you're bound to occasionally get women coming up to you asking you about America. It is not quite that simple and it is best to have someone to introduce you. Don't forget to carry your cell phone that you can conveniently get on while you are waiting in line at il supermercato--just right behind the woman in a fur coat pushing her groceries who has just got on her phone as well.

Again Italy is a Catholic country and even Italian men have problems getting with Italian women. At least, casual sex is not something done perhaps as much in Italy as it is say in northern Protestant Europe. An Italian man once told me that in Italy, when you f*** you remember it unlike in America where you are liable to be piss drunk. Anyway..................

Knowing the language is the most important thing in getting to know people in Bella Italia.

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.78) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 10:58 pm:

ishvara,
you are so right! my girlfriend has never told her father of her ir's (not that she has to, she's 45). but if she did, he would definitely disown her.

By Modulis (216.249.81.224) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 06:44 pm:

Hector, your post was interesing and informative. I feel like I learned something. What I wonder is whether American=white only in the minds of Italian women. Because if they want American boyfriends, I'd be damn willing to meet that demand. I may not be rich, but I think I'm an up and comer.

By Ishvara (38.163.112.93) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 03:42 pm:

My girlfriend is 100%, second generation, mother and father straight off the boat. It was ok for her to be with a half puerto rican half jew, but it definatley would not be ok for her to bring home a brotha. Go figure cause I sure don't understand it.

By Hectorvelasquez (63.169.132.218) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 03:09 pm:

If I were to look for an Italian woman I would go to Italy, as I have found women from Italy to be perhaps more "cultured" and more open. As I have said elsewhere, many women I met offered to show me around the city, offer directions, and help me with my poor Italian. Saying you are from Los Angeles or New York City gives you instant status, as one woman asked me if I know Michael Jackson--go figure. A black South African women, who was married to an Italian man, told me that many Italian women are actually looking for American boyfriends, because Italians I have noticed have this image of America as being a rich country, or at least richer than Europe with a lot of opportunity.

For historical reasons there is a big difference between northern Italy and southern Italy, the north developed in the late 19th century while the south did not. The south is still very poor. I cannot say much about the south of Italy since I did not visit the south when I was there, but I know that southern men tend to be more "protective" of their women, brothers will not let their sisters go out at night without some male escort for example. Interestingly there is actually some prejudice against southerns in the north. One woman who was from Turin told me that when she and her Sicilian roommate (her Sicilian roommate was blond by the way) went to meet the landlord of the apartment they were to rent, the landlord told them that he was "Ok" with the woman from Turin, but not "Ok" with the one from Sicily.

If you have to opportunity to go there for an extended stay, don't live in Florence because it is swimming with Americans and Venice is just a rich Euroland tourist trap that goes to bed at 9PM. Bologna is a nice city. Milano is considered more "European" but I liked the feel of it never the less. Italians don't tend to speak English as much as say the Germans, but they will at least work with you, unlike the French.

This might be a partial answer to the question that was raised about European women. Italy, like Ireland is a Catholic country and that colors things. It might not be as "open" to interracial dating as say Germany or perhaps France. On the other hand German and Italy in many ways are polar opposites. The idea of the times you can throw your trash away being legislated by the State, because it would cause noise pollution, would probably strike many Italians as incredible. The “regimentation” of Northern Europe is not as present in Italy.

An interesting book about Italian “manners and morals” is Luigi Barzini’s The Italians. It discuss why Italians “do the things they do” because of a certain type of “pathos,” that emerged at the end of the Renaissance, because Italians could not organize to defend Italy from all emerging larger states to the north and surrounding it: France, Austria-Hungary, and Spain.

I will be moving to Boston in August, I will be curious about the attitudes of the Italian-Americans there. I have also heard the working-class Boston has some people who are not so happy with their lives.

By Wyatt (207.106.60.23) on Monday, April 23, 2001 - 12:14 pm:

My first girlfriend in the mid 70's was Italian and very wonderful girl. Her brother introduced her to me at the time when they moved to Florida from Pennsylvania. My parents loved her and her mother and step father were very nice to me, inviting me to their home and parties.

Unfortunately, Italians in Philly, Boston,New York and the Northeast are extremely racist. Of course not all of them, but many of them--like manay of Irish Americans in the Northeast, think they are better than black people.

In San Fransisco's North Beach, there are many Italians. I am not sure how they are personally or as a community, but I love visitingthe North Beach area(lot's of gelato and espresso cafes-yummy!)

By Anon2000 (207.218.73.142) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 05:04 pm:

you have trouble finding italian women in cali??? are you in l.a.? i live in cali and there are MANY italian women up here, especially the bay area. my best girlfriend is italian (american). btw, not all italians are brunette. many northern italians are blonde/blue/fairskinned.

By Roberto (64.12.105.57) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 08:34 am:

The first white female I ever had a friendship with was Italian. I met her at the Baltimore city Druid Hill park on a summer day with a friend in the early 1970's. She lived in Little Italy in South baltimore in an area that was not kind to blacks dating their women. At the time, because of the racial climate as a result of riots several years prior with the assassination of Dr. Matin luther king, Maria and I were threading dangerous waters at the time. Most of the time we met on neutral territory outside of our communities at the city's Druid Hill Park. It was the first time that I ever touched a white female's hand. My father at the time was furious at me for getting involved with a "white girl" and her family forbid her association with any black man or she would have been disowned. I was inexperienced in dealing with a female, so much of what we had was exploring together our thoughts and feelings of the time. I remember that she was planning to go into teaching, because she felt so strongly that knowledge was the only liberation that will free people from poverty. She was an ardent liberal, but she had a good heart. We knew that what we had as a friendship could not go beyond just that "friendship". We never had sexual relations, but were just friends. Maria, where ever you are, I hope all the dreams and aspirations that you had then were realized. ~ Roberto

By Modulis (216.249.79.26) on Sunday, April 22, 2001 - 03:36 am:

I don't know about the rest of you brothas, but I just luuuuuuuuuuv Italian women. I would like to marry an Italian woman some day, that would be my dream come true. I like their language, their food, their family values, their history of art, architecture, fashion. I think many Italian women are gorgeous, I love their tanish complexions, their brown eyes and long brown hair.

I live on the W. coast so we don't have too many Italian girls out here like they do back east, unfortunately. I hear some negative things about Italians back east and their views on their daughters dating black men. Especially in segregated and ethnic places like Philadelphia and Boston. But yet, it seems as though I've talked to a lot of black guys who have dated Italian women. But I don't know, I'll set for any white brunette, Italian or not.