How common do you think sex between Black male slaves and White females was during

[AfroLove]

slavery. My understanding is that it was beyond taboo, I'm sure it was extremely rare but some people claim otherwise. Are there any documented cases of this happening?

[Chandarah]

Yes it happend and there are records of that... just don´t know anymore who it was... it is somewhere hidden here in the forum.

[Lowrey]

I'm sure men and women used slaves for whatever they wanted including sex, and not just afroamerican slaves, all slaves throughout history

[Al Walker]

Yes it happened often I took three African American courses and there were plenty of occurences. Most that were found out about ended in a lynching.

[supertype]

I'm sure men and women used slaves for whatever they wanted including sex, and not just afroamerican slaves, all slaves throughout history

true, in roman times sexslaves were not uncommon....

[FG]

true, in roman times sexslaves were not uncommon....

Unfortunately, sexslaves are still out there.. all over the world.

[FRESH]

There are a lot of personal familial stories about past IR relationships in the United States, most of them not being documented for obvious reasons. It was socially unacceptable before there were even laws against it one way or another. Even though the civil right movement happened, obviously it is still socially unacceptable to a degree with some. Do you even need anthropological research or stats to see the sheer numbers of fair complected (brown, not dark brown closer to black) African Americans, Africans surely didn't step of the boats like that lol. Just think about how many fair complected people you know and see on a daily basis, just from that observation I think we can safely assume there was a lot of unwarranted and mutual IR relationships back in the days of slavery.

[AfroLove]

Do you even need anthropological research or stats to see the sheer numbers of fair complected (brown, not dark brown closer to black) African Americans, Africans surely didn't step of the boats like that lol.


Actually, many of them did..

Just think about how many fair complected people you know and see on a daily basis, just from that observation I think we can safely assume there was a lot of unwarranted and mutual IR relationships back in the days of slavery.

No one is denying that 'miscegenation' was common, I'm only wondering how common it was between Black men and White women rather than White men and Black women.

[Tony Soprano]

I know for a fact that I couldn't have been around back in the day.:smt042

[pettyofficerj]

Yes it happened often I took three African American courses and there were plenty of occurences. Most that were found out about ended in a lynching.

i cringe just at the thought of that

[Chandarah]

Yes it happened often I took three African American courses and there were plenty of occurences. Most that were found out about ended in a lynching.


yeah and some people are sorry that those good old days are over.....:smt012

[Jaybee in WWBM]

Yes it happened often I took three African American courses and there were plenty of occurences. Most that were found out about ended in a lynching.

I'm pretty sure negroes aren't being lynched in classrooms. :)

[madscientist]

Much more common than most people would think:
http://www.amazon.com/White-Women-Black-Men-Nineteenth-Century/dp/0300077505

[KimboSlice]

Much more common than most people would think:
http://www.amazon.com/White-Women-Black-Men-Nineteenth-Century/dp/0300077505

I TOTALLY agree.

Benjamin Banneker, the black man who designed Washington D.C., his mother was white. She was from England and purchased her husband then set him free and married him.

BEFORE the civil war, Virginia had a law on their books that forbided white men from forcing their wives to have sex with black men. When the wives got pregnant, it was easier for the man to sell a mullatto child into slavery.

[Harmless Voyeur]

One of the more effective ways of determining the existence of sexual relationships between black men and white women during the era of slavery, for example, is to read satire of the times.

There are numerous references in various novels, plays (and anecdotal information from those who witnessed these performances) of writers shocking audiences with references to white women giving birth to black children. While some of this was exploitation of the seeming neverending white fear of the "black man," it's understood that America's nasty little secret from its origins was that white men were not the only ones enjoying the company of their dark skinned serfs.

[rpeg]

One of the more effective ways of determining the existence of sexual relationships between black men and white women during the era of slavery, for example, is to read satire of the times.

There are numerous references in various novels, plays (and anecdotal information from those who witnessed these performances) of writers shocking audiences with references to white women giving birth to black children. While some of this was exploitation of the seeming neverending white fear of the "black man," it's understood that America's nasty little secret from its origins was that white men were not the only ones enjoying the company of their dark skinned serfs.

That sounds interesting. Can you cite anything? Are there any article or documents on this subject? I always assumed it was never clearly documented and just a matter of hearsay and discussion within families. I mean, it knows it fact but I'm wondering if there's professional research on it.

Regarding my family, I know that early on an Irish indentured servant engaged with an African slave. Eventually leading to me I guess.

[KimboSlice]

That sounds interesting. Can you cite anything? Are there any article or documents on this subject? I always assumed it was never clearly documented and just a matter of hearsay and discussion within families. I mean, it knows it fact but I'm wondering if there's professional research on it.

Regarding my family, I know that early on an Irish indentured servant engaged with an African slave. Eventually leading to me I guess.


White Women, Black Men is a fascinating study of a category of interracial relationships that conventional wisdom has held did not exist: liaisons (the term author Martha Hodes prefers) between black men and white women in the antebellum South. Hodes shows how such relationships were tolerated, though not encouraged, to a surprising degree before the Civil War. In a fascinating feat of historical detective work, she uses court documents and other records in cases involving racial status, rape, divorce, and property, to explore the nature of these relationships. She shows white women who voluntarily gave up their privileged status to cohabit with black men, and white communities that turned a blind eye toward such unions. It was not until after the Civil War--when freedom for blacks meant Southern whites needed new ways to enforce their putative superiority--that black men were routinely punished with violence for real, or imagined, relationships with white women. --This text refers to the Hardcover edition.

http://www.amazon.com/White-Women-Bl.../dp/0300077505

[Mr Tibbs]

slavery. My understanding is that it was beyond taboo, I'm sure it was extremely rare but some people claim otherwise. Are there any documented cases of this happening?

I would recommend Sex and Race by J.A. Rogers Volume 3. All three volumes are worth reading but volume 3 quotes countless case histories during and immediately after the end of slavery of IR relationships both BM WW and BW WM.

You'll learn it certainly wasn't "extremely rare". Think about it, if it was so rare they wouldn't have needed so many laws against it!

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Race-Vol-White-Opposition/dp/0960229426/ref=pd_sim_b_2

[Soulthinker]

Mr.Tibbs,the J.A.Rogers books are the best on IR. Martha Hodes' book about BM/WW sex during slavery is good. It is better than the Mandingo books that were written in the 1950s. In the agrarian world where you don't see a person in many miles such sex happens. The hard part was if the WW has a child.

[idear987]

Highly unlikely. Women in general are attracted to men that are powerful, slaves on the other hand are powerless, therefore highly unattractive.

[LA]

Highly unlikely. Women in general are attracted to men that are powerful, slaves on the other hand are powerless, therefore highly unattractive.
Tell that to Mandingo and his bevy of groupies.

[idear987]

Tell that to Mandingo and his bevy of groupies.


Mandingo isn't a slave

[LA]

Mandingo isn't a slave
He wasn't?

I'm talkin about the original Mandingo.

Not the porn star.

[Tony Soprano]

He wasn't?

I'm talkin about the original Mandingo.

Not the porn star.
:smt042

[charmer]

http://images.gonzb.com/d/260616-1/B17.JPG

I think it was somewhat common with white women being very curious and flirting a lot with black slaves when the master was away. They probably even engaged in sex, and if they got caught, they had to claim it was rape.

[Harmless Voyeur]

Hey All,

The following article relates to the birth of twins with different fathers (yes, it can happen.) I have highlighted a section of the story about one of the first cases of this and it falls well within the US slavery timeframe.

-----

Mother gives birth to twins with different dads
‘One-in-a-million’ occurrence involves two eggs and two different fathers

A Texas woman wasn't planning on two conceptions for the record books.

But that's what she got — along with two beautiful boys — when she gave birth to twins of different fathers nearly a year ago.

"Both of them have similar appetites. They like to play with their older brothers. They like to play with each other," Mia Washington told the TODAY show Thursday.

Talk about baby-papa drama.

Their two dads
How did it happen? Every month a woman's ovary releases one egg that can be fertilized by one sperm. But in this case, a pair of eggs emerged.

Sperm, meanwhile, can remain alive and well and viable for up to five days in the reproductive tract. Thus a woman can have sex with different men within those five days and the sperm “just kind of hang out there waiting for the egg to be released,” Dr. Hilda Hutcherson, Clinical Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology at Columbia University, told Meredith Vieira on TODAY.

Washington, who just turned 20, admitted to her partner that she had sex with another man within that five-day window — hence, the double conception.

The mystery began to be solved when her partner, 44-year-old James Harrison, became concerned that Justin and Jordan, born only 7 minutes apart, looked so different. A paternity test followed.

When he discovered that Justin wasn’t his son, Harrison said, "I was hurt, torn apart — didn't know what the next move was gonna be," Harrison said in a taped NBC News segment.

Nonetheless, he's loved both boys the same since then. "I raised him [Justin] from a baby all the way to now. He knows me as his father, and I know him as my son," Harrison explained.

Brotherly love
The boys, meanwhile, know each other as brothers. "They're growing in the same environment," Washington said, "and they're getting to know each other and play with each other."

Indeed, the bonding that will grow between the fraternal half-brothers will be the same, said Dr. Hutcherson, who writes monthly sexual health columns in Essence and Glamour magazines and is an online advisor for Parents Magazine and Glamour.

"The babies won't know the difference," she said.

Such occurrences are rare — as rare one in a million, say some. Yet Hutcherson said some studies have shown that 1 to 2 percent of all fraternal twins have different dads. It just doesn't get noticed sometimes.

The technical term is twins by different fathers is "heteropaternal superfecundation." The first case was reported by John Archer — the first doctor to receive a medical degree in the United States — in 1810.

According to Archer, a white woman who had sex with a black man and a white man within a short time later gave birth to twins: one white, the other of mixed race.

Washington and Harrison, who are both African-American, say they intend to marry someday. They said they also plan on telling the kids the entire story when they're old enough to grasp it.

Besides its amazing twist, the story also has a mystery: The other father's identity isn't being released. And it has a surprise: Washington, who has a 4-year-old son from a different father, says the clan will grow even larger in August.

"They're gonna have a baby sister," she said.

URL: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30864533/ns/parenting_and_family/

[Harmless Voyeur]

http://images.gonzb.com/d/260616-1/B7.JPG

I think it was somewhat common with white women being very curious and flirting a lot with black slaves when the master was away. They probably even engaged in sex, and if they got caught, they had to claim it was rape.

Set during the Great Depression but this is what you're looking for.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1259/harperlee.jpg

[Jaybee in WWBM]

I TOTALLY agree.

Benjamin Banneker, the black man who designed Washington D.C., his mother was white. She was from England and purchased her husband then set him free and married him.



She married him? Poor bastard was SO looking forward to his freedom, too..

:D

[TheChosenOne]

From what I've read and heard through the years, WW and BM relations were not that uncommon during the early years of blacks and whites in this country (1619 till sometime during the early 1700's)...especially when blacks were not automatically seen as inferior and when there were plenty of Africans that only had to deal with being indentured slaves instead of permanent slaves. Eventually it became completely taboo...and what kept it from happening (moreso than lynching) was the fact that during slavery, children were supposed to take the condition of their mother. Obviously this is advantageous for WM because they can have 100 children out of wedlock and not have to worry about any of them having a legitimate claim to their estate...unless they wanted the children to have it. WW on the other hand posed a problem when having liasons with black men because the products of those relationships would become free even if the black man was a slave.

I honestly think it became far more taboo after slavery. During slavery (with the exception of periods of mass fear i.e., Nat Turner's Rebellion) slaves (even of the Mandingo variety) were viewed as immature and childlike...almost harmless except for bouts of laziness and malingering. After slavery, black men were free (sort of) and so the game went from one of condescension toward black men to one of bloodthirsty hostility.

[Blacktiger2005]

I say less common than it was between black women and white men. In fact, in many areas of the South today white men consider it a badge of honor to reach manhood to screw black women. No wonder the black male in the South was and is emasculated to this day..

[Soulthinker]

The Mandingo stories were written by Kyle Onstott. His stories full of IR sex makes someone thinks it was rampant especially the ones between ww and bm. In spite of the fact that two movies Mandingo and Drum and many books published there is nothing about him on Google. In the agrarian world of the South and elsewhere such sexual relations happen. It is the ones who are caught by White men and written in court records that make the most attention.

[Sonny Dragon]

I know it happened during the first 10 minutes of that movie Rosewood.

[Mikey]

I would recommend Sex and Race by J.A. Rogers Volume 3. All three volumes are worth reading but volume 3 quotes countless case histories during and immediately after the end of slavery of IR relationships both BM WW and BW WM.

You'll learn it certainly wasn't "extremely rare". Think about it, if it was so rare they wouldn't have needed so many laws against it!

http://www.amazon.com/Sex-Race-Vol-White-Opposition/dp/0960229426/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Mr.Tibbs,the J.A.Rogers books are the best on IR. Martha Hodes' book about BM/WW sex during slavery is good. It is better than the Mandingo books that were written in the 1950s. In the agrarian world where you don't see a person in many miles such sex happens. The hard part was if the WW has a child.

Good find, guys. I plan on buying the book on Amazon soon and reading it. Knowledge is power. I'll start off by buying Volume 1, "Negro-Caucasian mixing in all ages and all lands."

[ReginaStar]

I'm sure it happend but not nearly at the same rate as WM/BW. In the 1600's many mulatto children were the products of white women. They were free and the proposed a problem. It's believed that Becans rebellions is what caused them to segregate the races and passes laws against interracial marriage in VA. Most AA's today that are able to trace back there family to a WW will trace her back to the 1600's. There was melungeon communities as the result of the descendants.

Although it may have happend I have doubts it happend at large especially not anywere it was illegal. I mean I can see oral sex and that sort of thing going on but back then women would get pregnant and even the women could be hung. White males tried their damndest to prevent the white woman from sleeping with black men.

[LA]

White males tried their damndest to prevent the white woman from sleeping with black men.
In regards to that statement ^ Considering the way things are going now, seems not much has changed since that time period.

[4north1side2]

I know it happened during the first 10 minutes of that movie Rosewood.

That was black woman and white male.

[LaydeezmanCris]

I know for a fact that I couldn't have been around back in the day.:smt042


*dead*

[andreboba]

Obviously it wasn't as common as white slavemasters raping Black female slaves, but how hard is it to believe that if the wife of an affluent plantation owner summoned a Black male slave to her quarters during the night when her husband was away on business, she expected him to do more than 'pick cotton'??

Women have a libido too, and powerful women have slept with their subordinates since the beginning of time.

[pettyofficerj]

Obviously it wasn't as common as white slavemasters raping Black female slaves, but how hard is it to believe that if the wife of an affluent plantation owner summoned a Black male slave to her quarters during the night when her husband was away on business, she expected him to do more than 'pick cotton'??

Women have a libido too, and powerful women have slept with their subordinates since the beginning of time.

someone's been watching 'Spartacus'

ole girl told him (Crixis) don't stop until he spilled his seed, and threatened to kill his ass if he snitched

[MissWacy]

In regards to that statement ^ Considering the way things are going now, seems not much has changed since that time period.

oh they still are using scare tactics on white girls, even on some campuses they have tried to use thier little lies to keep white girls from black guys, but it gets seen for what it really is

[GQ Brotha]

I'm sure it happend but not nearly at the same rate as WM/BW. In the 1600's many mulatto children were the products of white women. They were free and the proposed a problem. It's believed that Becans rebellions is what caused them to segregate the races and passes laws against interracial marriage in VA. Most AA's today that are able to trace back there family to a WW will trace her back to the 1600's. There was melungeon communities as the result of the descendants.

Although it may have happend I have doubts it happend at large especially not anywere it was illegal. I mean I can see oral sex and that sort of thing going on but back then women would get pregnant and even the women could be hung. White males tried their damndest to prevent the white woman from sleeping with black men.

Yeah I never thought it was something that could be widespread. Seems like more fancies some white men made up in their heads.

Maybe a guilty conscience of their own actions with black women perhaps.

The reality is the opportunity for a male slave and a white woman to get freaky and nasty was probably not that readily available. Not to mention white women, especially the well off one's were pretty sheltered in those days.

Of course it happened but the cases were most likely extremely rare. Given the nature of plantation life, slave quarters, weren't there even slaves that snitched on others for favors.

I could imagine some c@ck blocker running their mouth to massa. :)

[GQ Brotha]

someone's been watching 'Spartacus'

ole girl told him (Crixis) don't stop until he spilled his seed, and threatened to kill his ass if he snitched

ROFL. 8-)

[GQ Brotha]

oh they still are using scare tactics on white girls, even on some campuses they have tried to use thier little lies to keep white girls from black guys, but it gets seen for what it really is

LOL, lots of good that is doing them. :D

They would be better served to redirect their energies elsewhere indeed.

[MissWacy]

LOL, lots of good that is doing them. :D

They would be better served to redirect their energies elsewhere indeed.

its white men like this who do it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1094294/Neo-Nazi-waged-hate-campaign-mixed-race-couple-jailed-seven-years.html

they are allways little pussys aswell

[GQ Brotha]

its white men like this who do it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1094294/Neo-Nazi-waged-hate-campaign-mixed-race-couple-jailed-seven-years.html

they are allways little pussys aswell

Wow, that is one twisted dude. He must have been really asshurt by seeing an interracial couple that it drove him to bomb making.

Talk about a beta-male, mentally decrepit, sicko. Just the obsessive types that sit up at night thinking about the unknown interracial couple they saw three weeks ago in the local mall. :D

[goodlove]

slavery. My understanding is that it was beyond taboo, I'm sure it was extremely rare but some people claim otherwise. Are there any documented cases of this happening?

if Im not mistaken there were laws in some states during slavery for children from wwbm relationships. I believe it was that if a child from a wwbm relationship that child would not be a slave

[Hellspawn]

if Im not mistaken there were laws in some states during slavery for children from wwbm relationships. I believe it was that if a child from a wwbm relationship that child would not be a slave

The rules were varied, and there are documented cases, especially in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Interracial-Intimacies-Marriage-Identity-Adoption/dp/0375402551/ref=sr_1_86?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308688570&sr=1-86

As the book says, it covers relationships in slavery (male or female master), issues with "passing", relationships in the civil rights era, as well as complexities in adoption across racial lines. It's a long book too, so anyone wanting documented cases with detail will enjoy the depth of the book.

[ReginaStar]

if Im not mistaken there were laws in some states during slavery for children from wwbm relationships. I believe it was that if a child from a wwbm relationship that child would not be a slave

Your right but there was alot of different laws. I think early own there was no laws and at first the first black Americans were indentured servants opposed to slaves. With all the information I get a bit confused but I believe their was laws like if a white woman who was an indentured servant got pregnant she was penalized with double years. There was cases where white men breed white women with black men for this purpose. Because of that in the 1960's laws were passed that hereditary slavery was passed down through mother to child. 1691 Virgina passed the first laws against interracial marriage. But then Maryland and Virgina in 1715 passed laws condemning white women who marry across the color line to 7 yrs of bondage and 31 yrs for their children. (I don't know but assuming this law affected non married white women who had biracial children)