Obama supports Ground Zero mosque

andrae09 said:

Thank you someone gets it. I guess I'm more emotional than some because for those of us living here when it happened it was down right terrifying you had no clue what was going to happen. Military personel all over the place, schools handing out iodine pills incase of nuclear attacks(there's a reactor 90 minutes north of me) not to mention you would be hard pressed to find someone who didn't personally lose someone or have a close friend lose someone during the attacks. Out of my close friends three people lost someone so its just a sensative topic and I apologize if I've been rude about it.

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this is going to test racial and religious tolerances definitely. the people wanting the mosque there may have had nothing to do with 9/11, or anything anti-american at all. They're just suffering backlash the way Japanese-Americans did when their native Japan bombed pearl Harbor in '41. It's like you knew every Japanese person wasn't anti-American, but still couldn't take the chance that some were, so you demonized them all just to play it safe.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't

Yes this country was founded first and foremost on the freedom of speech and religion. And they do have the right to build their Mosque anywhere in America, but c'mon do they have to build it next to 9/11 area?? Even some Moderate muslims, such as Rachel Raza, etc... disagree with idea of building a mosque in that vicinity.
Again Obama should have stayed out of it. He is got a bigger fish to fry than getting involved where a mosque should be built. I am sure after this a full pledged neo-nazi will fully expect to have an endorsement from Obama when he decides to erect a memorial to Hitler next to a synagogue or a giant statue of the Grand Wizard in Harlem. SMDH.







I know it is a bad analogy that I used, but still BO should have stayed out of STATE Matter!

UnChosen 1 said:

Yes this country was founded first and foremost on the freedom of speech and religion. And they do have the right to build their Mosque anywhere in America, but c'mon do they have to build it next to 9/11 area?? Even some Moderate muslims, such as Rachel Raza, etc... disagree with idea of building a mosque in that vicinity.
Again Obama should have stayed out of it. He is got a bigger fish to fry than getting involved where a mosque should be built. I am sure after this a full pledged neo-nazi will fully expect to have an endorsement from Obama when he decides to erect a memorial to Hitler next to a synagogue or a giant statue of the Grand Wizard in Harlem. SMDH.


I know it is a bad analogy that I used, but still BO should have stayed out of STATE Matter!

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it makes him look bad either side of the street he stands on, with this matter. This reminds me of the Dr Gates issue. Instead of just leaving it to local authorities, he chimes in his 2 cents.

I agree with Andrae, Petty and Unchosen on this one.

After reading the following article I come to several conclusions:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38699741/ns/politics

Obama is backing freedom of religion, not necessarily the mosque itself. I think there's a difference between the two.

He said:

"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as anyone else in this country," Obama said to applause at an event attended by diplomats from Islamic countries and members of the U.S. Muslim community.

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances..."

My next point is the mayor of New York (Michael *Bloomberg,) many religious organizations IN NYC and the agency that came up with the idea is based in the city.

If people are going to get upset, they should talk to the people of NYC who approved this idea, not Obama.*

Personally, I think a mosque at that site is very controversial, but when you supposed to have a country that prides itself on various freedoms (which includes the freedom of religion) your hands are tied.

I don't care for KKK rallies and their parades, but they have a right to assemble here in the USA...

So I can see obama's point based on his quote above. The issue isn't with him, It's with the New Yorker's who approved this plan long before Obama made that quote after the fact.

But people will spin this as Obama's idea and use it against him like they do everything else.

andrae09 said:

Dude were you living in New York when 9/11 happened? Because putting a Mosque on the site where thousands were murdered in the name of Allah is the same as having Confederate flags hanging all over the place in the south. Its insensative and basically uncalled for.

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Really dude? You're one of the people who believes that the entire of religion of Islam and the billion Muslims in the world are all directly responsible for 9/11? You think we're fighting a holy in the Middle East too? And what do you mean by "on the site where thousands of people died?" It's blocks away. Debris from the towers and those planes fell on a 20 block radius. Are you that all of lower Manhattan is off limits to these people.

Like I said, I've disagreed with you in the past, but I honestly thought that you were smarter than this. This entire story is a bunch of contrived nonsense. It's disturbing to see how easily people can get whipped into a frenzy about non-issue by a few professional screamers on television.

UnChosen 1 said:

Yes this country was founded first and foremost on the freedom of speech and religion. And they do have the right to build their Mosque anywhere in America, but c'mon do they have to build it next to 9/11 area?? Even some Moderate muslims, such as Rachel Raza, etc... disagree with idea of building a mosque in that vicinity.*
Again Obama should have stayed out of it. He is got a bigger fish to fry than getting involved where a mosque should be built. I am sure after this a full pledged neo-nazi will fully expect to have an endorsement from Obama when he decides to erect a memorial to Hitler next to a synagogue or a giant statue of the Grand Wizard in Harlem. SMDH.







I know it is a bad analogy that I used, but still BO should have stayed out of STATE Matter!

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Was Obama asked his opinion on this issue? I honestly don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was. They ask the President his opinion on everything under the sun...

And if so, I doubt the President can say "no comment?"

Hypestyle said:

would it be controversial for a christian church to be at or near the Oklahoma City federal building? Timothy McVey and his sympathizers aligned themselves with right-wing fundamentalist Christianity. Hmm...

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Best analogy I've seen on this topic by far. It's complete insanely to lump an entire religion and all of it's followers in the same category as a handful of murderous lunatics. As an agnostic, I'm not particularly fond of organized religion, but the Muslim bashing in American politics has reached the level of absurdity. There are much more pressing topics to be debated than this. With all that's going at the moment, I can't believe anyone gives a shit about this Mosque or the fact that the Michelle Obama got Secret Service protection on a brief vacation that was otherwise paid out of her own pocket.

raocha said:

Really dude? You're one of the people who believes that the entire of religion of Islam and the billion Muslims in the world are all directly responsible for 9/11? You think we're fighting a holy in the Middle East too? And what do you mean by "on the site where thousands of people died?" It's blocks away. Debris from the towers and those planes fell on a 20 block radius. Are you that all of lower Manhattan is off limits to these people.

Like I said, I've disagreed with you in the past, but I honestly thought that you were smarter than this. This entire story is a bunch of contrived nonsense. It's disturbing to see how easily people can get whipped into a frenzy about non-issue by a few professional screamers on television.

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I never said all Muslims were responsible. My point is why do something like that when its so insensative. I guarantee there are far more grief than good will come of the Mosque being built. You're definitely not reading what I'm writing you're just seeing that I don't agree with you and you don't like it kid.

andrae09 said:

I never said all Muslims were responsible. My point is why do something like that when its so insensative. I guarantee there are far more grief than good will come of the Mosque being built. You're definitely not reading what I'm writing you're just seeing that I don't agree with you and you don't like it kid.

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I did read what you wrote:

andrae09 said:

Dude were you living in New York when 9/11 happened? Because putting a Mosque on the site where thousands were murdered in the name of Allah is the same as having Confederate flags hanging all over the place in the south. Its insensative and basically uncalled for.

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This seems to indicate that you blame the entire religion of Islam for the attacks.

If you don't think that Muslims and Islam are directly responsible what's the problem with them building a mosque there? Where's the insensitivity?


This whole thing is totally irrational. You're just worked up about it because you heard some people screaming about Muslims on cable news.

UnChosen 1 said:

Yes this country was founded first and foremost on the freedom of speech and religion. And they do have the right to build their Mosque anywhere in America, but c'mon do they have to build it next to 9/11 area?? Even some Moderate muslims, such as Rachel Raza, etc... disagree with idea of building a mosque in that vicinity.
Again Obama should have stayed out of it. He is got a bigger fish to fry than getting involved where a mosque should be built. I am sure after this a full pledged neo-nazi will fully expect to have an endorsement from Obama when he decides to erect a memorial to Hitler next to a synagogue or a giant statue of the Grand Wizard in Harlem. SMDH.







I know it is a bad analogy that I used, but still BO should have stayed out of STATE Matter!

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Again, it's mind-boggling to me you that some of you people honestly buy into the notion that the blame for the 9/11 attacks rests with the entire religion of Islam.


I agree that this should be a non-issue, but considering the amount of play that it's getting in the media, I don't see any problem with the President sticking up for the first amendment. It's one of the few times that he's displayed political courage since he's been in office IMO.

raocha said:

Best analogy I've seen on this topic by far. It's complete insanely to lump an entire religion and all of it's followers in the same category as a handful of murderous lunatics. As an agnostic, I'm not particularly fond of organized religion, but the Muslim bashing in American politics has reached the level of absurdity. There are much more pressing topics to be debated than this. With all that's going at the moment, I can't believe anyone gives a shit about this Mosque or the fact that the Michelle Obama got Secret Service protection on a brief vacation that was otherwise paid out of her own pocket.

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Actually though it appears to be a case of comparing apples to apples, it's really not applicable because Oklahoma is deep in the Bible belt and most people here view all Christians to be the same. They really don't notice 'factions' if you will amongst Christians, for instance the average Christian sees no difference between a Christian church and a Disciples of Christ organized Christian church. There is no such thing as a bad type of Christian to these folks, so if it says 'Christian' in the name, it's all good. Now I'm not sayin that's a good thing, but it is how folks around here think.

Additionally religion really wasn't connected to the Oklahoma City bombing. Rather clearly the beliefs of those who played a part in 9/11 were very much publicized, explored, debated, and disdained. I personally do not believe that an entire group of people should be held responsible for the actions of a few nut jobs who have no clue what their own religion teaches, however I can see how it would be incredibly offensive to someone who lost a loved one during 9/11.

To me it's the equivalent to displaying a confederate flag, or a swastika. They hold no personal offensive meaning to me, as in I have not been personally injured by either of the parties who chose those symbols to represent their disgusting movements, however I see why they are offensive and certainly would never advocate anyone displaying them. In truth a symbol has only the power that people give it, but for those that connect pain and suffering to something like a symbol, including a mosque, that's something that maybe they really can't control?

I assumed that the choice was perhaps a deliberate attempt to show people that it's not all extremists, to show that it's not the religion to blame but rather the people who chose to pervert it for their own twisted agenda. Maybe it's just a matter of money, maybe the city officials just didn't think it was a big deal, who knows. I have no opinion either way, but personally I think the city officials should have put it to a vote so those affected most by the tragedy were allowed to decide if they wanted it, rather than approving it.

raocha said:

Again, it's mind-boggling to me you that some of you people honestly buy into the notion that the blame for the 9/11 attacks rests with the entire religion of Islam.


I agree that this should be a non-issue, but considering the amount of play that it's getting in the media, I don't see any problem with the President sticking up for the first amendment. It's one of the few times that he's displayed political courage since he's been in office IMO.

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I never blamed the enitre group of ppl or the religion for few bad apples. Like I said they have a right to build their place of worishp anywhere, but out of respect for the dead, may be, just may be, they should have chose a different site. I am not the only one who saying this, quite a few moderate muslims have been saying it.

Again Obama should have stayed out of it. It is a state matter. He is already getting hammered for going to THE VIEW, Letterman show, basket ball games, golfing and not responding to the gulf crisis right away. He is in heavy scrutiny and he should know better. Plus honestly Obama is got a bigger fish to fry these days than getting involved in mosque building. He is looking amateur everyday, even his own base are saying they will abandon him. He needs to tighten up for the next two years.

raocha said:

I did read what you wrote:



This seems to indicate that you blame the entire religion of Islam for the attacks.

If you don't think that Muslims and Islam are directly responsible what's the problem with them building a mosque there? Where's the insensitivity?


This whole thing is totally irrational. You're just worked up about it because you heard some people screaming about Muslims on cable news.

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Dude you can't be that dense. Building a Mosque there would just incite problems. The insensativity comes in when a place of worship is built on the grounds where thousands died in the name of that God. I don't get why that's hard to see.

Espy said:

Actually though it appears to be a case of comparing apples to apples, it's really not applicable because Oklahoma is deep in the Bible belt and most people here view all Christians to be the same. They really don't notice 'factions' if you will amongst Christians, for instance the average Christian sees no difference between a Christian church and a Disciples of Christ organized Christian church. There is no such thing as a bad type of Christian to these folks, so if it says 'Christian' in the name, it's all good. Now I'm not sayin that's a good thing, but it is how folks around here think.

Additionally religion really wasn't connected to the Oklahoma City bombing. Rather clearly the beliefs of those who played a part in 9/11 were very much publicized, explored, debated, and disdained. I personally do not believe that an entire group of people should be held responsible for the actions of a few nut jobs who have no clue what their own religion teaches, however I can see how it would be incredibly offensive to someone who lost a loved one during 9/11.

To me it's the equivalent to displaying a confederate flag, or a swastika. They hold no personal offensive meaning to me, as in I have not been personally injured by either of the parties who chose those symbols to represent their disgusting movements, however I see why they are offensive and certainly would never advocate anyone displaying them. In truth a symbol has only the power that people give it, but for those that connect pain and suffering to something like a symbol, including a mosque, that's something that maybe they really can't control?

I assumed that the choice was perhaps a deliberate attempt to show people that it's not all extremists, to show that it's not the religion to blame but rather the people who chose to pervert it for their own twisted agenda. Maybe it's just a matter of money, maybe the city officials just didn't think it was a big deal, who knows. I have no opinion either way, but personally I think the city officials should have put it to a vote so those affected most by the tragedy were allowed to decide if they wanted it, rather than approving it.

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I liked all of the quote except the idea of other people getting to vote on if you have the right to build your building.

andrae09 said:

Dude you can't be that dense. Building a Mosque there would just incite problems. The insensativity comes in when a place of worship is built on the grounds where thousands died in the name of that God. I don't get why that's hard to see.

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I guess I am that dense because I don't see the issue. It's not built on the location of the old World Trade Center. It's a few blocks away where pieces of one of the planes fell. Debris from the buildings and the planes were strewn all over lower Manhattan. By your logic, it shouldn't be built anywhere in that part of the borough. And what is so fucking offensive about a house of worship being built near the place where the attacks to place if the fact that it's Islamic isn't your primary concern?

Seriously, what's the problem? So we can't put any mosques in lower Manhattan? Should churches and synagogues be removed from that part of the city too? Is it okay to build a restaurant or coffee shop there or music store? Would that be an affront to the people who died on 9/11?

Ridiculous.

UnChosen 1 said:

I never blamed the enitre group of ppl or the religion for few bad apples. Like I said they have a right to build their place of worishp anywhere, but out of respect for the dead, may be, just may be, they should have chose a different site. I am not the only one who saying this, quite a few moderate muslims have been saying it.

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I don't care who's making the argument. I don't understand how it's an affront to the dead. The Muslims I've seen who oppose the construction of the mosque seem to be saying that they should appease bigots by keeping their heads down. IMO that's a pathetic way to go through life.

Again Obama should have stayed out of it. It is a state matter. He is already getting hammered for going to THE VIEW, Letterman show, basket ball games, golfing and not responding to the gulf crisis right away. He is in heavy scrutiny and he should know better. Plus honestly Obama is got a bigger fish to fry these days than getting involved in mosque building. He is looking amateur everyday, even his own base are saying they will abandon him. He needs to tighten up for the next two years.

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So because Obama's being attacked over trivial shit by dishonest pundits who are going attack him no matter what he says or does, he should have kept his mouth shut about a story that's being run all over the mainstream press? :roll:

raocha said:

I guess I am that dense because I don't see the issue. It's not built on the location of the old World Trade Center. It's a few blocks away where pieces of one of the planes fell. Debris from the buildings and the planes were strewn all over lower Manhattan. By your logic, it shouldn't be built anywhere in that part of the borough. And what is so fucking offensive about a house of worship being built near the place where the attacks to place if the fact that it's Islamic isn't your primary concern?

Seriously, what's the problem? So we can't put any mosques in lower Manhattan? Should churches and synagogues be removed from that part of the city too? Is it okay to build a restaurant or coffee shop there or music store? Would that be an affront to the people who died on 9/11?

Ridiculous.

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The concept of symbolism is completely lost on you huh?

andrae09 said:

The concept of symbolism is completely lost on you huh?

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No. I'm just not sure what if anything the construction or rather extension of a religious center (they've already been holding prayer services in an adjoining building for quite some time without issue) several blocks away from the place where a terrorist attack took place is supposed to represent.

I would understand where you were coming from if you blamed Islam for the terrorist attacks on 9/11. I think that's a hideous generalization, but I understand what the mosque represents to anyone who holds that belief. However, you've claimed that you don't blame all Muslims for the attacks, so your strident opposition to the construction of this building doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

I had an argument about this with my parents today, mainly my Mom. They are both up in arms about the building of this mosque.

In a way, I can't blame them. It seems like they're shoving it in the faces of the survivors and on the memories of those who lost their lives.

However, like I told my mom when she questioned the reason they're doing this:

because they can.

That's it. They have every right to build it under the Constitution. It sucks for the many people who are offended by it, but there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. It's written in our Constitution. They know it. We know it. They're taking advantage of it.

I personally think it's in poor taste, because I do see it as a slap in the face to those people personally affected by this tragedy. But hey, it's America, I'm allowed to feel this way.