Has Hiphop done more to harm the Black community than good?

Discussion in 'Conversations Between White Women and Black Men' started by malikom, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. kenny_g

    kenny_g New Member

    Re: Has hip hop done more harm to Black community than good?

    GREAT POINT!


    This arguement that everybody across the country is having is so stupid, because hip hop hasn't change in the eighties it hasn't changed in the nineties and it still hasn't changed 21st, it just evolved. You still got your
    Gangsta rap, Conscious rap, and Pop rap.

    Just look at the comparisons:
    N.W.A/BONE THUGS/G-UNIT

    THE FATBOYS - DIGITAL UNDERGROUND - LUDACRIS

    2 LIVE CREW - SIR MIXXALOT - YING YANG TWINS

    Boo-dah Bliss - LA DREAM TEAM - MC HAMMER - SOULJA BOY, D4L, etc.

    Ice-T - 2pac - SNOOP DOGG - Notorious B.I.G. - Jay-Z - 50 Cent, Young Jeezy, Cam'ron, etc.

    Furious Five - Public Enemy - Tribe Called Quest - Common, Kanye, Lupe, etc.

    Lyric comparisons

    "... took that girl out on the floor
    She rocked me from the backside
    We did the butt til it made me sore
    Now, it's a physical thing, but not hard to do
    You just shake-a shake shake shake
    Shake-a shake shake
    Doin' the butt the whole night through, come on"

    - E.U. "DA BUTT"


    "...Do that Stuff that your mother call smut girl, lets
    get buck naked and fuck tonight"

    Ice - t "Lets get buck naked and fuck"

    "...Now since you got the body of the year, come and get the award
    Here's a hint, it's like a long chop sword.

    Wreck-n-Effects - Rump shaker

    "...Sittin' at home with my dick on hard
    So I got the black book for a freak to call

    2 Live Crew - Me so horny

    "...Shake, shake, shake your money maker
    Like you were shaking it for some paper
    It took your momma 9 months to make ya
    Might as well shake what your momma gave ya
    You, you lookin good in them jeans"

    Ludacris - moneymaker

    "...She A Very Freaky Girl Dont Bring Her To Mamma
    First You Get Her Name Then You Get Her Number
    Then You Get Some Brain In The Front Seat Of
    The Hummer Then You Get Some Brain In The Front
    Seat Of The Hummer

    Gucci man - Freakygirl

    ..."You aint got to take your panties off, just
    move them to the side.

    50 Cent - Amusement Park

    "...Pop quiz, how many topless, black foxes
    Did I have under my belt, like boxers
    Not to brag but, if it add up
    One, two, nigga that's mad nuts

    Kanye West - Wouldn't get far

    "...Still I gotta pause when I think about her in dem draws
    (Go) And a ooh baby she liked it raw and like rain when she came it poured

    Common - Go









    "...It's goin down tonight in L.A.
    Buckshot and uzis spray
    Microphone blowa
    The bitch checka
    The ho wrecka

    Ice-T - Ice M.F. T

    "...Ruthless! Never seen like a shadow in the dark
    except when I unload, see I'll get over the hesitation
    and hear the scream of the one who got the last penetration

    N.W.A - Straight outta Compton

    "...I'm civilized damage to a nobody
    And I'm carrying a gun if I'm rhyming at the party
    New York, Chicago, Detroit, LA
    I'll slay wherever ya play
    D.C. or Philly, or Baltimore
    I'm worrying the rich, invading the poor
    Perpetrating in your video, here's the real smoothing
    Country accents, who do you think you're foolin

    LL Cool J - Murdergram

    "...I kicks the flavor good, to represent the neighborhood
    where I come from, and that's the place of Brooklyn
    where the grimies are born and bred
    And bullets are like eyeballs, two to the head

    Big Daddy Kane - Brooklyn Style...Laid out

    "...I love finger fuckin you, all of a sudden I'm hearin thunder
    When you bust a nut, niggaz be duckin or takin numbers
    Love to watch you at a block party, beggin for drama
    While unleashin on the old timers, that's on my mama"

    2PAC - Me & My girlfriend

    "...No need for that, just grab the fucking gat
    The first pocket that's fat the Tec is to his back

    Biggie - Gimme the loot

    "...You see me with a bodyguard that means police is watchin
    And I only use his waist to keep my glock in
    But when shit goes down you know who's doin the poppin
    And if you don't know, guess who's doin the droppin

    Jay-z - Streets is watchin

    "...See I'm down for that daytime action
    Have niggaz crawlin under cars when I start to cappin

    50 Cent - Man Down

    "...Glass pots on the stove got the kitchen smellin funky
    Sold a million records but I still flip them blocks
    On the TV every day but I'm still pop them glocks

    Young Jeezy - J.E.E.Z.Y


    "...Cuz I ain't never been a sucka, been gangsta my whole life
    So a nigga disrespect me and it's on on sight

    T.I. - Watch what you say to me

    "...Everybody come equipped with bangas
    Throwing up our middle fangas
    And you know I don’t slip so I gotta keep 10 in the clip and 1 the chambers
    Better be walking with angels

    Ludacris - Im so Hood









    "...A child was born, with no state of mind
    Blind to the ways of mankind
    God is smiling on you but he's frownin too,
    Cause only god knows what you go through

    GrandMaster Flash & furious five - The message

    "...He was only seventeen, in a madman's dream,
    The cops shot the kid, I still hear him scream,
    This ain't funny so don't ya dare laugh,
    Just another case 'bout the wrong path,
    Straight 'n narrow or yo' soul gets cast

    Slick Rick - Children's Story

    "...For this drug deal,I'm the big wheel
    The dope I'm sellin',you don't smoke,you feel
    Out on the dance floor,on my world tour
    I'm sellin' dope in each and every record store
    I'm the king pin when the wax spins
    Crack or smack will take you to a sure end
    You don't need it,just throw that stuff away
    You wanna get high?Let the record play

    Ice-t - Im your pusher

    "...If I wasnt in the rap game
    Id probably have a key knee deep in the crack game
    Because the streets is a short stop
    Either youre slingin crack rock or you got a wicked jumpshot
    Shit, its hard being young from the slums
    Eatin five cent gums not knowin where your meals comin from

    Biggie - Things done Changed

    "...Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice
    I say the darker the flesh then the deeper the roots
    I give a holler to my sisters on welfare
    Tupac cares, if don't nobody else care

    2pac - keep ya head up


    "...I zone off thinkin' is there really heaven or hell
    So what happens to a changed man who dies in a cell
    I need no answers to these questions, cuz time will tell
    Got a date with destiny, she's more than a girl
    Don't much good come from me, but my music
    Is a gift given from God so I'ma use it

    50 cent - God gave me style

    "...I had a dream I can buy my way to heaven
    When I awoke, I spent that on a necklace.
    I told God I'd be back in a second,
    Man It's so hard not to act reckless.
    To whom much is given much is tested.
    Get arrested, guess until, they get the message

    Kanye West - Can't tell me nothing

    "...I want to be as free as the spirits of those who left
    I'm talking Malcom, Coltrane, my man Yusef
    Through death through conception
    New breath and resurrection
    For moms, new steps in her direction

    Common - BE

    "...The irony of selling drugs is sort of like i'm using it
    Guess its two sides to what 'substance abuse' is

    JAY-Z - Fallin'

    "Little Erica is eleven years old
    She's steady trying to figure why the world is so cold
    So she pops pills to get rid of all the pain
    Plus she's having sex with a boy who's sixteen

    Ludacris - Runaway Love


    "...Moms smokin rocks same shit im sellin
    So who's wrong her or me
    She addicted to tha high im addicted to tha cash
    Almost put my hands on here when i caught her in my stash
    How could i do like dat lord knows im wrong
    Why would i do her like dat lord know she strong
    I kno its been hard but we made it baby
    10 years clean so she still my lady i must be dreamin

    Young Jeezy - Dreamin'


    "...Excuse my french emotion in my passion
    But I wear my heart on my sleeve like it's the new fashion
    What are you asking, if I don't have the answer
    It's probably on the web, like I'm a damn tarantula
    But I know you don't understand, cause you thought lil wayne is weezy
    But weezy is dwayne

    Lil Wayne - You don't Get it


    "...Ghetto birds still shittin on us, government still quittin on us
    Lost a few homies and the grief still sittin on us
    So we got the names written on us, white folks still spittin on us
    And them bitch ass police k-9's teeth still grittin on us
    But we smoke, ashes still gettin on us

    Lil Wayne - CRY OUT











    "....If you were raised in New York by now you know
    That walking down the street is like going to a car show
    Diamond in the back,sun roof top
    Chillin' in the scene with the gangster lean oo,oo,oo

    Dougie Fresh - Crazy bout cars

    "....To the point, straight from the source
    Double Benzito and one Porsche!
    A girl in the passenger seat, me, I'm steering;
    To make a long story short, I was gearing
    Patent leather! Silk! Credit cards!
    A pocket full of money! The whole nine yards

    Fatboys - Just Loungin

    "...In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that's right)
    Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do
    Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews

    2PAC - Califorinia Love

    "...I'm poppin Magnums while Jigga bag somethin
    Watch is platinum, got jet lag from
    flights back and forth, pop corks of the best grapes
    Make the best CD's and the best tapes
    Don't forget the vinyl, take girls break spinals
    Biggie be Richie like Lionel, shit
    You seen the Jesus, dipped to H classes,
    Ice project off lights, chick flashes
    Blind your broke asses, even got rocks in big mustaches

    Biggie - I love the dough

    "...Nigga I ain't got a money printer
    So for this paper chase I'm out runnin' sprinters...
    gettin' money is my sport
    And understand the rap game is my court
    So I shall walk and come forth like a Rockport
    Or some sort of... matchin' slippers or yacht shoes
    See I don't cruise control I control the cruise

    Lil Wayne - You aint know

    "...got more whips than a runaway slave
    Me and Yayo go back like some high top fades
    When I made fifty mill, Em got paid
    When I made sixty mill, Dre got paid
    When I made eighty mill, Jimmy got paid
    I ain't even gotta rap now life is made
    Said I ain't even gotta rap, I'm filthy mayne

    50 Cent - Straight to the bank

    "...I wear more bling to The Source and Soul Train's
    More chains than rings, niggaz won't do a thing

    Jay-z - Change the game

    "...Cadillac grills
    Cadillac bills
    Check out the oil
    My cadillac spills
    Matter of fact
    Candy paint
    Cadillac kills
    So check out the hoes my cadillac fills
    20 inch wide
    20 inch high
    Hold on to my 20 inch ride

    Ludacris - Southern Hospitality

    "...I gotta '66 Impala so fresh
    White top, burnt drop wit' the choppers on deck
    It was off, Panda motor on a '94 'Vette
    Fish bowl, televisions pimpin' I ain't done yet
    I got the cherry red leather and I'm sittin' on chrome
    On 26 inches just to get my roll on

    T.I. - Front Back



    Seriously I only difference I see is that hip hop moving with time, it is the 21st century things need to be upgraded. I don't see no one still walking around with those big ass walkie talkie cellphones. All I see is an upgrade.
    You don't like the gangsta rap you 20 years late, you don't like the pop rap you over twenty years late...remember apache jump on it, jump on it.
    That was a pop rap song sugar hill gang made. Point is your late if you are complaining. And with the lyrics I just proved is more than anything rappers had broaden their albums to have all genres of hip hop on there.
    Nearly everybody has done some of each, I didn't make any of those lyrics up neither just look and that aint even the half of it. It is a shame everybody is having this pointless arguement.

    Doing more to harm the community? Rappers and athletes are the only celebrities that gives back to the community. But no one pays attention to
    that. No one pays attention to the ludacris foundation, no one pays attention to 50 cent's charity for kids mostly. Better question is why is nobody listening when they talk about that?
     
  2. kenny_g

    kenny_g New Member

    Re: Has hip hop done more harm to Black community than good?

     
  3. BlackMasterJay

    BlackMasterJay Well-Known Member

    Hip Hop is w/out a doubt detrimental to the black community.

    In my mind, the US of fucking A is a pyramid. You have those on top, and those at the bottom. Hip Hop helps in keeping those that are at the bottom, right where they are. The only people that benefit from hip hop production are the producers, and the white man that owns these productions.

    It promotes violence in the black community, and while some rich white kids will see these lyrics as a mere "story line", there are countless young black males living and breathing the story lines of hip hop. Most of these youngsters know not of how to cope with their lives. Having no father figure to listen to,and a community/society that has pretty much abandoned them, sometimes the only means of hearing an externalized depiction of their internalized struggles is through hip hop lyricism. Not only that but hip hop to these young black males is in many ways what the bible is to Christians

    When you have beautiful women like beyonce, talking about "i need a solja".....basically to me she either made that song at gun point, OR shes stupid,,OR she doesnt care about the black community. The song pretty much talks about how she wants a "thug" in her life, someone who "makes money three ways". No where in that song did she say anything about wanting a brother with a good education.

    later
     
  4. BlackMasterJay

    BlackMasterJay Well-Known Member

    Re: Has hip hop done more harm to Black community than good?

    They are part of the problem, just because they offer some solution after making the problem worse doesnt mean they are saints.


    The only rapper i will ever respect is one that talks about NOTHING but knowledge and enlightenment. One that has a charity that promotes early childhood education in the ghettos. Not only that, but building a few schools for youngsters would also help. Promoting education, and assisting from an early age an educated attitude in the mind set of young black males is what successful blacks ought to be doing

    A mere charity will not solve the problem. You should tackle the problem from an early age.

    Now that would make me respect a rapper........charity??...haha,,i laugh at that shit. If you spoon feed people, you will always have a problem,,,,however if teach them how to eat from an early age ,the problem will subside.
     
  5. Tony Soprano

    Tony Soprano Moderator

    Now anybody can probably attest to the fact that today’s music is trash, plain & simple. The reason for that is because the music industry is run by a bunch of corporate bureaucrats who care more about advertising revenue than actual good music.

    It’s as if every single beat sounds exactly the same as the next one. Where’s the funk? Where’s the bass? All you hear is a heavy beat, a catchy phrase, and a snap-pop.

    Call me optimistic, but I believe that hip-hop will improve one day. Things have to get worse before they can get better.
     
  6. karmacoma.

    karmacoma. Well-Known Member

    I guess I'm not crazy after all
     
  7. karmacoma.

    karmacoma. Well-Known Member

    Re: Has hip hop done more harm to Black community than good?

     
  8. Soulthinker

    Soulthinker Well-Known Member

    Rap/Hip-Hop has evolved a lot in 30 years. From Kurtis Blow and Grandmaster Flash to 50 Cent and Kane West. The big money is always the dirty,raunchy,and degrading. Most of the legends didn't get those big money deals. Gangsta Rap came along and opened an industry that is detrimental. The big labels are not owned by brothers but by White males. As for distribution the same.
     
  9. kenny_g

    kenny_g New Member

    I made my point and through the facts out. When facts don't get listen to it just goes to show the listener has the problem not the talker.
    Facts are facts and there is no changing that no matter how you
    roll your eyes at them or brush over them, they will still be there, because there is nothing more real than a fact. Show me your facts instead of ya'll opinions to counter what I speak and quoted, I feel quite sure about myself that you can't do it.....



    Oh and one more lyrical content
    "...IT AIN'T NOTHING BUT MUSIC.
    Dr. Dre
     
  10. jellybird

    jellybird New Member

    I find it quite humorous that someone who isnt american would consider himself knowledgable enough to be critical of hip-hop.

    Yeah...I said it!
     
  11. LUCIFERMORNINGSTAR

    LUCIFERMORNINGSTAR New Member

    You know, mere minutes after you posted this I was gonna say that someone, a real american, would point out that you aren't [black] american and so you can't be critical of hip-hop.

    But I said naaaah.

    I guess I was wrong.
     
  12. jellybird

    jellybird New Member

  13. LUCIFERMORNINGSTAR

    LUCIFERMORNINGSTAR New Member

    In the words of Li'l Wayne: YEEEYYYYIRRR!
     
  14. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, you make some valid points (regardless of citizenship). Music has always been a mirror to society both for the good and the bad. Bottom line, the old rule applies - garbage in.. garbage out. Surrounding yourself with positive, uplifting influences in every aspect of your life is always a good idea. What is cutting edge art and what is detrimental crap is very much a subjective decision, this discussion reminds me of the whole "piss christ" controversy years back.
     
  15. Intriguedone

    Intriguedone Well-Known Member

    Mayne, I always try to avoid this argument 'cause it seems so transparent to me...nonetheless, blacks folks argue so much amongst ourselves, we have a difficult time getting anything accomplished. Hell, you're more productive avoiding silly dust-ups puttin' in work by your lonely.

    Most people particularly in our community simply don't want to accept that MAINSTREAM rap music DOES have a negative impact on our culture...PERIOD.

    Has rap changed?...more or less it's evolved, but that's not the question. The reality is that rap has elevated to mainstream and the "unproductive" elements of the music completely overshadows the "conscious" aspects of the music. The industry isn't about talent, it's about trends...what's hot...copycats.

    So when you get one idiot jawing about some ignant bullsh*t, and it sells...(primarily to those with expendable income - a demographic that has no reality of what hip-hop culture is about)...then the rest of the industry jumps on the bandwagon...the slippery slope continues.

    There's a lot of productive and conscious artists who get NO BURN because they won't dumb down their music to suit what's hot right now. The Lupe's and Commons and Kanyes are few and far in between...not enough to uplift the rap game from it's generally stagnant and uncreative status.

    We also have to keep in mind everybody has a different definition of what positive is. I think Kanye is conscious, some don't.

    It doesn't matter how many charities 50 has, his prevailing image does nothing to further the advancement of minorities....period. No one can argue that. You can love his music, but accept what he is...unconstructive.

    I'll readily admit I'm being hypocritical myself, being a major fan of Bone, Luda, Fab, Twista, etc. But I can accept when their lyrics are not constructive.

    How many more rappers do we need telling us what's going on in the streets? I know that I know and most of you do too, so that lame excuse is tired. It aint no secret thats only revealed on a rap CD. Most of them aren't telling stories, they're boasting of real or imagined street dreams...that does nothing but paint unrealistic pictures in the heads of young boys.

    When you have negative images of yourself constantly in the mainstrem media, we do ourselves no favors by further glorifying the negative. Most of us grew up looking up to the local athletes, rappers, or D-boys and aspiring to be like one of the 3 groups, I know I wanted to ball.

    What would happen if we promoted more images of Dentists, Lawyers, Entrepreneurs..etc. Logic tells me, we'd have more young boys striving for those same goals. ...and I KNOW that the mainstream media does not promote positivity w/in our culture, but damnit, we have to start with ourselves.


    ....I knew I should've ignored this thread. One-luv family. 8)



     
  16. jellybird

    jellybird New Member

    Its not about citizenship as much as its about culture.

    Hip-hop didnt evolve to give a voice to all black people. It developed to give a voice to those who were not listened to. Black or white...if your from a middle-class, nuclear family, then hip-hop doesnt really speak for you. And there are some "struggling folks" who dont get hip-hop, either. But it did for me, and millions of other kids who wanted to learn about the world we live in...the good as well as the bad.

    I remember my mother telling me that she hated cops, didnt trust them, and warned me not to trust them either. I didnt understand what she was saying and kinda took it with a grain of salt.

    Then in the late 80's, a rap group talked about how america has turned a blind eye to the plight of blacks who are the victims of police brutality and an inequitable social programs. They talked about fighting fire with fire because they couldnt get justice from such a racist judicial system.

    (The things they rapped about were the most shocking things I had ever heard and couldnt believe that they were allowed to make records saying the things they said.)

    They were branded menaces and part of the problem. Even after all the things they talked about was proven true...with the Rodney King verdict and the Latasha Harlins trial. Every horrible thing that they said took place that people dismissed as exaggeration turned out to be real!

    That group was N.W.A...probably the most controversial rap group in history!

    So if hip-hop doesnt represent you or you dont understand it, fine. But dont dismiss it as "garbage in-garbage out" because it doesnt speak for you.
     
  17. jellybird

    jellybird New Member

    Agree and disagree with you, Intrigue, but you should post because there are those who have never heard of common, the roots, lupe, PE, brand nubian, t. kwlei, x-clan, jungle bros...and the list goes on.

    Everyone knows that bullsh*t sells and all entertainment genres have quality and crap. People just like to pick on hip-hop becuase its a minority platform that gives a voice to people they dont want to listen to.
     
  18. Intriguedone

    Intriguedone Well-Known Member


    ....Valid point.

     
  19. Loki

    Loki Well-Known Member

    So if hip-hop doesnt represent you or you dont understand it, fine. But dont dismiss it as "garbage in-garbage out" because it doesnt speak for you.[/quote]

    You make some solid points here, I did not mean to come accross as dismissing ALL hip hop, as I do enjoy some hip hop artists, the garbage in garbage out quote was meant for those who are just in it for the money and will say and do anything, no matter how degrading, as long as it is economically expedient.

    Not sure I agree with the NWA being vanguards in reporting the social injustices and outright brutality of those in positions of authority. There were plenty of social commentaries and political activists SCREAMING about the situation for the Black disenfranchised and poor. I would agree that NWA's exposure from all the controversy they created brought their message to a larger audience who were not paying any attention. I would also say that in my opinion, NWA was a double edged sword in that they certainly played into, perpetuated, and profited from, negative stereotypes.
     
  20. jellybird

    jellybird New Member

    They were vanguards as far as hardcore rap and really put the west coast rap scene on the map. They are the definition of "gansta rap."

    And political activist and commentators at that time didnt deliver the same message N.W.A did...who talked about killing police officers and judges who brutilized minorites.

    N.W.A. was a double edged sword...but arent we all?
     

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