Is America Raising a Generation of Weaklings...

I've always seen America as a country that thrived, in part, because we encourage individuals to act and think independently. We've always celebrated those, whether in Academics, Athletics or Business who rise to the top by virtue of their hard work and success. So, I'm fairly taken aback by events that I see that seem to push kids into the background.

There was a post on the forum recently about a youngster in Arkansas who was at first banned, and then allowed to play under certain constraints, that he not score too many touchdowns. In another instance, kids were forced to forego a real jump rope in favor of an imaginary jump rope for fear that missed jumps with a real rope might adversely affect their self-esteem. Then, I read of schools eliminating dodge balls because their egos would be too bruised if they were "tagged out" with the ball.

On the educational front, there are districts doing away with letter grades, and allowing students to make up failed tests, continually. If homework isn't done on time, no problem, you get more time.

In the end, it seems that none of this serves the child well by preparing them for a world where second chances and "do overs" are rare. My concern would also be how this laxness affects the other "average" kids. Will it make them less motivated to succeed when they see that effort has no reward?

I'm curious as what other things about this movement toward "discouraging" achievement...

 

I think it's because American's became so sue happy that schools and other places are trying to avoid big pay day lawsuits.

 

Hmm, I wonder when the last time it was that america led in education. Not for a hot minute and never again I bet.

 

I think we are TOO sensitive at times and I hate how schools appear so apathetic towards bullying. I was taught to fight back. Sorry. Thats a strong message enough for most people to get. Whopping your kids when they do wrong. I agree with that also.

You can look at the male archtypes of the past and those of today and see that certain masculine qualities are seen as undesirable or ridiculed. Not to an extreme but it is definitely present within our culture now. I could say that the feminist movement has contributed to this some too.

 

The Book of Man: Readings on the Path to Manhood

written by william bennett was on CNN (white man) talking about how men are letting women and america down.

he said the following women (not black women but women) are out pacing men in getting degrees and holding better jobs (sounds familiar).

he stated men are (basically) getting soft.

 

I agree. It's an odd catch 22 - the school system is getting soft, yet still does nothing about bullying... I was NOT taught to fight back, I was taught by my (highly mysoginistic father) to suck it up and take it, turn the other cheek (mostly in his best interest as a teacher trying to get hired into the school system). I got bullied on a daily basis - those dodge balls? I was no athlete, but was almost always the last one standing, and the last one to fall...the target of a bunch of guys on the other side. I was awesome at defense in basketball because it was the only time I could legitimately be aggressive without getting in trouble. It hurt, yes, and it affected me, but I wouldn't have the strength and compassion that I do today without those torturous experiences (in sports and in the locker room later)... In the classroom, I was always a straight A student, so that didn't apply to me, but I certainly earned it the FIRST time (not from getting coddled). I got bullied by my father at home to get those good grades, too - failure was not an option. I got plenty of beatings, most of which were undeserved. I was what you call a "good girl".

I also agree with you about the place of men in this society, and the negative effect (in some aspects), that feminism (or the radical expression of such), has impacted the value that men place on their role in society. Men were, and are constantly told that they are neither wanted nor needed, so what's the point in developing some of the best characteristics of what it means to be a man? There's no one to fight for - no one that appreciates your hard work. No one who needs you. Or so it would seem.
Men are constantly being degraded in sitcoms and movies as ineffectual, bumbling, out-of-shape boobs, while their wives are competent, sharp, sexy, and totally wear the (bitchy) pants in the family. Like that's the way it's SUPPOSED to be. I don't think so.

I do think relationships are supposed to be a partnership... the best of them really are, and it's inspiring to see... sometimes it IS a little unorthodox, with each person doing what he/she naturally does best - and the roles work out. Personally, I am by nature a very independently minded woman who started off (by my parents' teaching) thinking that the man was the be all and end all to my life (like my life had no meaning without a husband). I have learned that this is not true, but still, I am hoping to find a man who has an old-fashioned grasp of what real manhood really is all about - one who is not afraid to take the lead in our relationship, not afraid to tell me "no" (not just for the sake of saying "no"), someone with strong convictions, with fierce loyalty and passions, who has the strength of confidence to stand up for what he believes in. I want someone I can look up to and admire... and that's certainly not the breed of man that society is churning out now. Hopefully there are a few old-fashioned guys left with the good sense to notice a head-strong opinionated woman who might just be their perfect sidekick in life.

I want a "hero". That sounds corny, but you are talking about archetypes here. If we are speaking of icons, make mine a Knight Templar (without the vow of chastity ).

 

I agree with much of this. I am old-school in my thinking, and I, too, am looking for the kind of guy saint is looking for.

We have a habit in this country of taking everything a bit too far. Political correctness, the feminist movement, and exactly what the OP was talking about in the educational system - allowing students to take tests over & over again. While I certainly believe in second chances, this isn't one of those times.

I have been in a number of churches during my adult life, and I have heard it preached from just about every pulpit that men need to be men again. (I believe the Promisekeepers movement probably stemmed from this teaching.) But what caused this emasculation? The feminist movement has surely contributed to it. But have men lost their role as leaders because the women took it from them, or did the women take over the role because the men stopped being men?

 

I think you're giving the feminist movement too much credit here. Men didn't become weaklings because women became strong - if you're strong, other people's strength does not impact yours negatively.

I also find it slightly troubling that Bennet et al set this up as a man against woman thing - in other words, it's horrible that women are now a tiny bit more than 50% of the college population. It wasn't horrible when men were more than half? That wasn't a big deal, but women being pretty close to their percentage of the population is worthy of a panic about men being weak?

That's just silliness. Even if I were in a position to look for a LTR, I would want an equal partner - someone who not only isn't afraid to say no, but someone who isn't afraid to *hear* it either. I don't want a hero, I'd want a best friend I couldn't keep my hands off.

If women being equal means men feel less than, that's their problem, not ours. Giving up privilege is hard, but it's work that needs to be done across gender, orientation, race, etc.

This "panic" is as silly as if white people got all up in arms because black people represented 2% more than their population in college and jobs. Women still don't get equal pay, even when part time work, etc are taken into account, and the "glass ceiling" is still firmly in place on most of Wall Street and in most corporations. I don't think men-in-general are in any danger of being sent home to be barefoot and pregnant anytime soon.

Yes, I rambled. It's the meds.

 

Don't blame the meds, Pixie, when telling your truth. As you said,

Another quote of yours:

I hoped by saying that I wanted a man who would accept a headstrong, opinionated woman, as saying that I wanted one who would be able to listen to me. After 10 plus years of independence, I deserve that. I also do want one that I trust to consult me on everything, and then, with his judgement (which I have ultimately come to regard, hopefully), come to a decision or compromise. If he is NOT a fool, he would take my opinion into consideration, otherwise, I would not engage with him into a relationship.

I want a best friend too. But I don't want a brother. I know that's not what you mean, but it has to be delineated.

As far as the class ceiling is concerned, I wouldn't know, having struggled to stay afloat on the bottom rungs of corporate structure, while staying true to my artist background and education in my mind... It is the unfortunate economy. If we could all do what we were best at, and make a fair living off of it (without being entrepreneurs), it (the USA) would be a great country.

 

You all have it wrong.

After two centuries of the most profound advancements in science, technology, economic productivity, and urban development, of course we're a little "soft." You're softer than someone who was born in the middle of the twentieth century and they were softer than someone born in the nineteenth, ad infinitum. If you want to live in a society with all the conveniences of modern life, then you're going to have to accept not walking ten miles everyday for a bucket of water or waking up at the crack of dawn to milk cows and gather eggs.

Americans are smarter than we've ever been in the sense of formal education, but there does seem to be a poverty of imagination in how we dream of innovation.

Perhaps we've reached a provisional limit in our technological capacities and are willing to settle for tablet computers and smart phones as being representative of American ingenuity? Items that aren't so impressive when weighed against the Earth-shattering genius of a Thomas Edison or the Wright Brothers.

In any case, this discussion should bear greater fruit than hearing the same tired complaints about not being able to score an alpha male. I mean really, who gives a fuck?

 

I respectfully disagree. I saw this in my own family. My mother is not a feminist, but she is strong-willed and her insistence in having her own way resulted in a father who finally gave up trying to be the man in our family. It's not a pretty picture.

Another thing I notice about society is that the lines between right and wrong are constantly being changed or are simply becoming blurred. I suppose "right" and "wrong" is different for everyone, but I think there was a time in our country where what was right/wrong was agreed upon by a greater number of the general population. I'm reminded of the scripture that says "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" Isaiah 5:20

 

We now live in a culture where everything associated with masculinity is a negative and everything feminie is a positive which by the way is why the school systems are horrible. We have become a country of whiners and complainers refusing to pick ourselves up. We'd rather point fingers than actually do anything. I'm not saying women are at fault because it couldn't happen without male cooperation but there is something to be said about the total demonization of being male in our culture. My favorite example is when this womans talk show brought up the guy who's wife chopped of his dick and threw it in the blender and the female crowd actually cheered. If a man did that to a woman (chopped off her boobs) and men cheered about it. There would be a demand to shut the show down and have the staff fired.
And all this self esteem coddling needs to stop and that to me is a very feminine influenced occurance. Protecting feelings isn't leading to better results. The kids seem to be doing far worst.

 

Wow. Talk about reaching...

 

There's a difference between being a bully and being strong-willed.

I think people far too often confuse the two, especially when it comes to women- and then they get labeled as a 'feminazi' or a 'bitch', and the sad fact is that they're bullies.

 

Reaching? Do you watch any media what so ever. Most of our entertainment revolves around a bumbling male afraid to confront his wife who for whatever reason is always right.
The only show as of late where I see women characters looking dumb too is The Middle and Modern Family. Otherwise its hiding out in the man cave because I'm afraid the old wife might scold me.

 

Hmmmmmmmm :smt115

 

Sooo, how exactly does that have any bearing on the education system, exactly?

Yes, indeed. It's tough to look in the mirror and accept your own bullying tendencies, isn't it?

My point was that people erroneously call someone a feminazi or a bitch, when they actually can't tell the difference because of their own ignorance. People actually have no idea what feminist IS and what it represents, and out of fear for equality, rather than facing that men and women can be bullies, they'd like to try to discredit the entire movement that was designed to level the playing field.

All of the bitching and whining about 'real men' is evidence of this. A man who doesn't show emotion isn't a 'real man' to me- he's the weakest form of life there is. But, society can't seem to shake that stereotype.

 

I think America has become too PC and very sensitive to the wrong things. I remember hearing about a story from some school where they were against putting grades largely written in red ink, cause it'll offend the kids. What kind of shit is that? In life, you succeed and you fail. You either do one or the other or both. That's coddling those kids into thinking that everything is going to be smooth sailing. I know I'm just using the grading thing as an example, but it reminds of those soccer games where everyone wins. WTF? Again, life isn't all peaches and cream. You have to learn to win and lose, fail and succeed etc.

 

The things that make men great that have made this country great like aggression and the love of competition have all but disappeared. Now its a coddling yes dear mentality. Where do the whole idea of not keeping score or doing away with "emotional damaging" games like dodge ball came from?

 

Geez, talk about hijacking a thread...This thread was not another one about finding an ideal man or feminism. It was meant as a forum for discussing kids, and whether or not they are being dealt a disservice by current thought about education and esteem concerns. I hope that future comments can get back on course.