White women that love black men, but are not "woke"

I agree with most of your points.

I just want to clarify that my position is that the people who are not repulsed by acts of injustice, because they perceive said acts as having no negative impact on them, those same people, will not be moved by the fact that said acts of injustice are driven by racial prejudice. Such people will already be found morally wanting with respect to basic principles of justice. One would need to force such people to face up to the fact that the injustice perparated on others can, and does directly impacted members from their perceived "socially privileged" group.

With respect to the existence and destructiveness of white privilege, I would say the only ones who are really enjoying white privilege are white elite, while the white masses can still be considered as members of the oppressed class.

True it may be that some among them (the white oppressed) may enjoy the spectacle of the black masses being members of a more so oppressed subgroup, but others will naturally be repulsed by this spectacle. the ones who enjoy the spectacle do so to distract from their own struggles, while the ones who are repulsed do not flee from the truth, and will likely be quite aware of the injustices they themselves experience.

In this sense I do not think notions of white privilege is a useful rhetoric, because those who secretly enjoy, or even rely upon the notion of higher societal standing by virtue of whiteness will also secretly embrace the notion of white privilege while outwardly denying its existence; in contrast, those whites who are angered by the oppression of blacks will, by way of being more readily accepting of the truth, also be aware of their own oppression and thus find it hard to regard themselves as objectively privileged.

Simply put, if one described a black person from the west as having "western privilege" (as some other posters have done) many would take umbrage with that description and think it ignorant, because while you may be privileged relative to another group, this does not mean that you are privileged by absolute standards (free from any encroachment on the pursuit of happiness by institutions of authority).

 

I mostly agree with you too lol. And thanks for the clarification. I think I better understand your perspective now. As I said before, I definitely agree that it's tough to persuade people who can't or won't acknowledge reality. I would argue that someone too "aware of their own oppression" to accurately assess their privilege is in that category. For instance, I am a Black man but I have *some* privilege (gender, education, religion, "western," just to name a few).

One more point I'll make is that all privilege is relative. If all groups were in the same boat, no group would have cause to complain. The entire point is that one group is better off relative to another (otherwise similarly-situated) group. That's why a poor white non-elite can still have white privilege. Sure that white person is still disadvantaged relative to elites of various colors (wealth privilege is real too), but relative to poor black non-elites, they've got an advantage. That is their privilege. In some cases they still have an advantage over wealthy non-whites (examples: names on resumes that won't be "too ethnic," safely walking around suburban neighborhoods alone at night, not worrying their sons will be shot by police for hanging an air freshener). It might not seem to amount to much on any given day, but it's real.

Anyway I'm thinking we're gonna have to agree to disagree lol. But thanks for the thoughts. I enjoy a good exchange of constructive good faith arguments.

 

Again I agree with most of what you've said. I would say that the elite would probably have secured the job before the interview.

They would probably be less likely to worry about the death of their child than anyone from the oppressed groups because of the unofficial two tiered legal systems.

As relations between the people and their governments deteriorate, interactions between the arm of the law and the masses becomes more militant; on the other hand the elite largely avoid any penalty for breaches of the law and can utilise services of the law enforcement inaccessible to most.

Thanks, I agree it was good conversation.

 

I wonder if the IR relationships of conservative couples who are WW/BM? Are they in denial of such racism?

 

You`ve had some very good responses to your post so the only thing I will add is that America from the beginning was a racially diverse society and developed through the contributions of all the different races. One can debate on how much each race contributed but they all contributed and all should benefit from the society they help to build. .

 

If Clarence Thomas, a bm, is an example of conservative ww/bm relationships then in his case he is in denial that racism exists. I don`t know if his ww feels the same. I hope his thinking is not typical of conservative bm in ww/bm relationships

 

What does being a conservative thinker have to do with denying racism?
Is this platform just for "woke" people ? Or can logical people share their pov freely?

 

Personally, it's a red flag if she's "woke", marriage with her won't last long

 

I want a partner who is aware of sociopolitical issues, but not one who feels the need to proselytize constantly.

 

One doesn’t cause the other, right?

 

True indeed.

 

In my experience, many conservative thinkers (in the US sense) share many views of the far right (racism has disappeared/is nonexistent; it was never that prevalent; race has no relevance in modern life and you are only judged by your work; etc), which often contradict the daily, lived experience of many people African descent.

Outside of the racial dimension, however, there are many conservative views that can be shared around the world, regardless of race, due to one's class/caste, such as views on taxation, land use, natural resources, market forces vs planning, deference to age/tradition/religion, etc).

 

Contact me when you find that unicorn.
Being aware of sociopolitical issues doesn't take a rocket scientist, most people are "aware". They just might not convey it the same way you want them to.

And this is where I'd like to highlight that not everyone on this site is American. So when I refer "conservative" values, as an African living in Europe, it's a different message to what you tie that term to.
But being a "woke liberal" is universally tied to a very confused group of people that usually devalue the meaning of family

 

I’m not prepared to say that “woke liberal” being synonymous with a devalued view of the family. Perhaps they have a broader or less traditional view of what constitutes a family, but I’ve never heard any serious commentator arguing against the value of family units to human society.

If I speak about liberals in the European context, I would more likely be speaking in economic terms (US fiscal conservatives are their corollary). The extreme European social reactionaries are usually only a small share of parliamentary formations of 10% or less. Europe also has far right fringe thinkers, but they are usually not part of parliamentary bodies. Europe’s use of proportional representation keeps the extremes out of majority parties, which is a plus, but it by no means eliminates such groups and their views from public discourse.

 

I believe I fall in that category - love black men (really just one black man in particular lol), but can't say I am "woke". I do not feel that I am "left" or "right" for that matter, I try to gravitate towards the middle, lean conservative on some issues and lean liberal on other issues, my husband is the same way. (I know this has become a rarity in our society these days). We are both aware of societal issues and do not pretend they don't exist, although we can't say that we have personally been confronted with them in our lives (not sure if that meets the definition of being "woke" or not lol... if not, here I am, if anyone has any questions, ask away

 

Not a red flag for me but SJW women are annoying as fuck!

 

...

 

Shit, not for this black man lol. I have less than zero desire to date anyone even remotely MAGA -adjacent. Hard, hard pass.

 

I think the bolded statement is true of most people. However, I don`t believe forcing such people to see injustice will work. Just give them the facts and hope that they see the light.

 

Why even bother giving people like that facts? If they don't have the same moral compass as you (general you) do as to what they perceive as injustice, that's more of a sign for you (again general) that they aren't people you should be associated with, especially relationship wise.