Astronomy, Interplanetary Travel and Mars Colonization

[Beasty]

Remember Musk is talking about Colonizing Mars not just visiting.

Mars has more gravity than the moon which is a huge plus.

Mars has more of an atmosphere which is also a huge plus.

Two points for Mars thus far.

The link below is sort of a fun link to gather information on what your weight would be on different planets.

https://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/weight/

 

[Skylight]

kudos for the topic brain tease.

gotta wonder...do we really want humans colonizing other planets now? lol.

Last week at the 67th International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Guadalajara, Mexico, the billionaire entrepreneur and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk detailed his dream of “ensuring the light of consciousness is not extinguished,” an audacious plan to make humanity a multi-planetary civilization and insulate it from extinction by building gigantic rocket ships to ferry one million homesteaders to Mars—and beyond. After his hour-long talk Musk asked for questions, undoubtedly hoping for a stimulating and thoughtful discussion.
What followed was a sequence of interrogative non-sequiturs, as one eager audience member after another bombarded him with bizarre requests. Musk’s presence at the normally august proceedings of the IAC had brought his diehard fans out in force, and for a time the sanest person in the room seemed to be the man on stage pitching plans to land a million people on Mars. One questioner asked to toss Elon a comic book; another tried to lure him into a prototype 30-ton electric bus in the parking lot; a producer affiliated with the website Funny or Die sought to sell him on a video series starring Michael Cera as the first astronaut on Mars, and someone named “Lara” offered to “go upstairs” with him for “a good-luck kiss.” Only a few professional journalists managed to squeeze in questions around this cavalcade of characters, chiefly asking about the technical and financial feasibility of Musk’s ambitious plans.

I like Musk's enthusiasm... but maybe we need a bit more work here.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...lon-musk-scuttle-the-search-for-life-on-mars/

 

[Beasty]

kudos for the topic brain tease.

gotta wonder...do we really want humans colonizing other planets now? lol.

Last week at the 67th International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Guadalajara, Mexico, the billionaire entrepreneur and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk detailed his dream of “ensuring the light of consciousness is not extinguished,” an audacious plan to make humanity a multi-planetary civilization and insulate it from extinction by building gigantic rocket ships to ferry one million homesteaders to Mars—and beyond. After his hour-long talk Musk asked for questions, undoubtedly hoping for a stimulating and thoughtful discussion.
What followed was a sequence of interrogative non-sequiturs, as one eager audience member after another bombarded him with bizarre requests. Musk’s presence at the normally august proceedings of the IAC had brought his diehard fans out in force, and for a time the sanest person in the room seemed to be the man on stage pitching plans to land a million people on Mars. One questioner asked to toss Elon a comic book; another tried to lure him into a prototype 30-ton electric bus in the parking lot; a producer affiliated with the website Funny or Die sought to sell him on a video series starring Michael Cera as the first astronaut on Mars, and someone named “Lara” offered to “go upstairs” with him for “a good-luck kiss.” Only a few professional journalists managed to squeeze in questions around this cavalcade of characters, chiefly asking about the technical and financial feasibility of Musk’s ambitious plans.

I like Musk's enthusiasm... but maybe we need a bit more work here.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...lon-musk-scuttle-the-search-for-life-on-mars/

Because we carry bacteria and some people don't want it to kill other bacteria:

"Should our civilization’s insatiable curiosity and hunger for frontiers override the welfare of alien creatures, even if only microbes? Would sending humans to Mars be worth the price of planetary-scale ecocide?"

And I thought Vegans were funny! LOL! Lets be concerned about the welfare of bacteria! Bacteria deserves to be treated fairly!!

 

[Skylight]

This is going in Tam's zodiac thread, but it bears Astrological highlighting here..

Your Zodiac Sign May Have Changed — But Don't Panic
SARA COUGHLIN
SEPTEMBER 16, 2016, 5:50 PM

Sweet... I just became an Aquarius...

 

[samson1701]

Wait ... why is astrology in this thread? Haven't read through the whole thing so if it's been asked and answered, my bad.

 

[Beasty]

Wait ... why is astrology in this thread? Haven't read through the whole thing so if it's been asked and answered, my bad.

Bliss on a right wing agenda. You know how they hate and mock science. Lol

 

[Beasty]

I don't believe it, though.

I know astrology is mostly crap, but there IS some truth to the signs and supposedly I'm going from a Gemini to a Taurus. I display zero signs for Taurus.

If they want to change the zodiac dates, then they need to also shift the signs' meanings, etc.

#GeminiNoMatterWhat

Could you get that Astrology removed from this science thread? Please and thank you.

 

[Bookworm616]

Could you get that Astrology removed from this science thread? Please and thank you.

Only Webbie can move or delete posts. Report the post and ask him to remove the "bad" posts.

I can't guarantee he'll do it, but it's worth a try.

 

[medullaslashin]

Remember Musk is talking about Colonizing Mars not just visiting.

Mars has more gravity than the moon which is a huge plus.

Mars has more of an atmosphere which is also a huge plus.

Two points for Mars thus far.

The link below is sort of a fun link to gather information on what your weight would be on different planets.

https://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/weight/

Huge plus? Two points?

You act as if you would need less life support on Mars. (I hope you're not thinking atmosphere = breathable. :mrgreen

Mars has negligible atmosphere, with very little protection from radiation and little atmospheric pressure to keep your blood from boiling. Just like the moon. Mars also has less gravity than earth, so you're going to have deal with having your bones and muscles atrophy both on mars and the moon.

You're going to need life support, pressure suits, the whole shebang on both mars and the moon. Difference is, you can come back from the moon & give your body a break.

You see, those challenges ^ become even bigger when you have to deal with them for good, with zero room for error. Even the years-long (by most accounts other than Musk's wishful thinking) trip to mars is dangerous, and if the travelers die in the can on the way there, it would set back humanity's appetite for space travel for a goood long while.

Plus, as I said, the payoff is bigger for a moon trip, for all kinds of reasons. It's a great stepping stone for trips farther out, both technologically and otherwise.

 

[medullaslashin]

kudos for the topic brain tease.

gotta wonder...do we really want humans colonizing other planets now? lol.

Last week at the 67th International Astronautical Congress (IAC) in Guadalajara, Mexico, the billionaire entrepreneur and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk detailed his dream of “ensuring the light of consciousness is not extinguished,” an audacious plan to make humanity a multi-planetary civilization and insulate it from extinction by building gigantic rocket ships to ferry one million homesteaders to Mars—and beyond. After his hour-long talk Musk asked for questions, undoubtedly hoping for a stimulating and thoughtful discussion.
What followed was a sequence of interrogative non-sequiturs, as one eager audience member after another bombarded him with bizarre requests. Musk’s presence at the normally august proceedings of the IAC had brought his diehard fans out in force, and for a time the sanest person in the room seemed to be the man on stage pitching plans to land a million people on Mars. One questioner asked to toss Elon a comic book; another tried to lure him into a prototype 30-ton electric bus in the parking lot; a producer affiliated with the website Funny or Die sought to sell him on a video series starring Michael Cera as the first astronaut on Mars, and someone named “Lara” offered to “go upstairs” with him for “a good-luck kiss.” Only a few professional journalists managed to squeeze in questions around this cavalcade of characters, chiefly asking about the technical and financial feasibility of Musk’s ambitious plans.

I like Musk's enthusiasm... but maybe we need a bit more work here.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...lon-musk-scuttle-the-search-for-life-on-mars/

wish I was there... I would've called out musk for bullshit & told him to put me in charge of a moon mission, preferably this one:

He has the money...

 

[medullaslashin]

I find space and other planets fascinating, and I dont think exploration should be stopped on them, they may be able to help understand earth better, but I cant help but say, that earth should get our attention first, try to deal with our own home first.

Before having expensive and risky trips to far away planets as a form of recreation like some say, that energy and funding would be better spent trying to fix some of earth's problems.

Always nice to see a female into space & science & such...

That's rare in my experience. Most I've met seem to have zero interest, including my current ...

 

[Beasty]

Huge plus? Two points?

You act as if you would need less life support on Mars. (I hope you're not thinking atmosphere = breathable. :mrgreen

Mars has negligible atmosphere, with very little protection from radiation and little atmospheric pressure to keep your blood from boiling. Just like the moon. Mars also has less gravity than earth, so you're going to have deal with having your bones and muscles atrophy both on mars and the moon.

You're going to need life support, pressure suits, the whole shebang on both mars and the moon. Difference is, you can come back from the moon & give your body a break.

You see, those challenges ^ become even bigger when you have to deal with them for good, with zero room for error. Even the years-long (by most accounts other than Musk's wishful thinking) trip to mars is dangerous, and if the travelers die in the can on the way there, it would set back humanity's appetite for space travel for a goood long while.

Plus, as I said, the payoff is bigger for a moon trip, for all kinds of reasons. It's a great stepping stone for trips farther out, both technologically and otherwise.

You said a trip to mars would be dangerous because of the radiation. You would actually be exposed to more radiation on the moon because the atmosphere there is negligible compared to mars. The only way you would be exposed to less radiation is if you cut the trip short, but you cant expect a 3 week visit to the moon to prepare you for a trip to mars. Not when the ride there alone is 80 days.

The only way the moon can become a stepping stone to mars is if you have people actually stay on the moon as long as they would be away from earth on a visit to mars. During the test run if they get tired of it they can get back home relatively fast. The thing is, if you get sick of being away from the earth on a trip to the moon, then it will not make a lot of sense for you to go to mars which is of course much further from earth.

During the time away on the moon they would be exposed to more radiation than they would be on mars because mars has more of an atmosphere. Of course you would still need protection from radiation on Mars but that doesn't change the fact that you would be exposed to less of it.
The atmosphere of Mars does not provide sufficient protection from radiation by any stretch but in contrast to the moon some is better than none.

Score one for Mars

You have jokes about the Atmosphere being breathable on mars? The atmosphere there is mostly carbon dioxide. The molecular formula for carbon dioxide is CO2. One part Carbon two parts BAM. :smt066

So tell me why that's not a huge plus in comparison to the moon......I'll wait.

Last time I checked it was possible to synthesize CO2 into oxygen because its actually made of oxygen. It is also impossible to create it from nothing. So feel free to explain why the atmosphere on Mars is not a huge plus in comparison to the moon.

Also you seem to understand that having less gravity is a challenge to human health. So explain why you think it's not a plus for mars to have more gravity than the moon.

Musk is talking about having oceans on Mars which would require the atmosphere to be compressed. I don't know how he could compress the entire atmosphere, but at least mars actually has an atmosphere to compress. If you read my previous posts in this thread you would know that I already understand that there must be a certain pressure for water to remain a liquid under a given temperature. So why bore me with the redundancy of needing a space suit?

Another point goes to mars for actually having much more air molecules to compress to begin with. Even if the entire atmosphere can't be compressed its still a plus that mars does have more air because Musk could easily build buildings with compressed air systems.

I don't think we should abandon the moon altogether. I just think you should take up your ambition for the moon with the government rather than Musk.

Lastly to address your comment about giving Technology a trial run on the moon. What tech are you talking about? The suits get tested at the space stations. Any technology for the space ships must be tested in flight because that's where its going to actually be used.

 

[Skylight]

nice to see the enthusiasm. I'd give some kudos but out of points.

I think we're a long way from colonizing Mars... or the moon for that matter.

But reliable rockets are good. Maybe we can get even larger telescopes in space.

 

[Skylight]

wrt to astrology... just havin fun!

 

[Beasty]

I think Musk plans to heat the polar caps on Mars. This would release more CO2 into the atmosphere and increase the air pressure, perhaps to a level that would allow liquid water to flow.

 

[samson1701]

I think Musk plans to heat the polar caps on Mars. This would release more CO2 into the atmosphere and increase the air pressure, perhaps to a level that would allow liquid water to flow.

I wonder if, at least in theory, Musk has figured out a way to compress the atmosphere in smaller, man made areas rather than the whole planet? Say, areas the size of a small to medium city. From what I know (which is very, very little) that would seem more practical.

 

[Stizzy]

With mars being so similar to the earth with more radiation I've often wondered was mars actually earth 1. And did humans fuck it up like we're doing this one.

 

[Beasty]

I wonder if, at least in theory, Musk has figured out a way to compress the atmosphere in smaller, man made areas rather than the whole planet? Say, areas the size of a small to medium city. From what I know (which is very, very little) that would seem more practical.

Good question. Not sure about this one yet. What I will say is that the practicality of getting proper air pressure from heating the polar caps will be better understood if we knew more of mars history. Hopefully I'll get to read up on some of the planet's history in a few days from now.

With mars being so similar to the earth with more radiation I've often wondered was mars actually earth 1. And did humans fuck it up like we're doing this one.

Actually a big part of the problem was that the liquid iron core cooled and solidified therefore the magnetic field of the planet died out. It still exists somewhat but nothing like it was before.

The magnetic field of our planet blocks most of the radiation, the rest is absorbed by the air. The magnetic field exists due to the marvelous liquid iron core.

 

[Stizzy]

Good question. Not sure about this one yet. What I will say is that the practicality of getting proper air pressure from heating the polar caps will be better understood if we knew more of mars history. Hopefully I'll get to read up on some of the planet's history in a few days from now.


Actually a big part of the problem was that the liquid iron core cooled and solidified therefore the magnetic field of the planet died out. It still exists somewhat but nothing like it was before.

The magnetic field of our planet blocks most of the radiation, the rest is absorbed by the air. The magnetic field exists due to the marvelous liquid iron core.

I wonder what caused it to cool, and if it can be jumpstarted.

 

[Beasty]

I wonder if, at least in theory, Musk has figured out a way to compress the atmosphere in smaller, man made areas rather than the whole planet? Say, areas the size of a small to medium city. From what I know (which is very, very little) that would seem more practical.

I believe this is a hint to your question. In the gulf of Alaska the two bodies of water are reluctant to mix due to the difference in density. Perhaps the same affect can be engineered with the correct mixture of air. It could keep the air in man made areas from easily mixing with the rest of the air on mars. You would have to visit the Ideal Gas Law for more insight on this. It takes into consideration factors such as Volume, Temperature, Molar mass, and pressure. Dry air is more dense than air with water vapor and the air on mars is very dry.

The reason my example is not perfect is that other factors influence water density like whats dissolved in it.