TRUMP Thread

[Loki]

@Loki

Here is the charge Flynn pled to...
What say you?

'"Today, Michael Flynn, a former National Security Advisor at the White House for 25 days during the Trump Administration, and a former Obama administration official, entered a guilty plea to a single count of making a false statement to the FBI.

The false statements involved mirror the false statements to White House officials which resulted in his resignation in February of this year.

'Nothing about the guilty plea or the charge implicates anyone other than Mr. Flynn.

The conclusion of this phase of the Special Counsel's work demonstrates again that the Special Counsel is moving with all deliberate speed and clears the way for a prompt and reasonable conclusion.'

– Ty Cobb, Trump's lawyer

Trust me, that's a lawyer (Cobb) trying to put the best "spin" on things, this is just getting started...

"Flynn described his decision to cooperate with prosecutors as one that was made “in the best interests of my family and of our country.”

“I accept full responsibility for my actions,” he said.

A Flynn confidant said the retired general promised “full cooperation” in the probe, ABC News reported, and that he is prepared to testify that Trump asked him to make contact with the Russians."

 

[Bliss]

The early reports (not verified yet) are saying that Trump instructed Flynn to back channel with Moscow to ask them to not retaliate with sanctions after President Obama put sanctions in place against Russia for their interference with the US elections. If this is proven to be true, it has nothing to do with President Obama, and could very well rise to obstruction.

"Unverified reports" are meaniingless then.
How and why, would a former Obama appointee and retired General take an order from a civilian to circumvent the sitting President's sanction order over what the WH called, "alleged Russian interference with U.S elections"?
Does that even make sense to you, and if it does, is this the charge Flynn pled to?

 

[Bliss]

..
A Flynn confidant said the retired general promised “full cooperation” in the probe, ABC News reported, and that he is prepared to testify that Trump asked him to make contact with the Russians."

Can we ask the annonymous 'source' ...Testify what exactly? When was Flynn asked? Is there a paper trail?
Legal phone convos?
We want answers to the sweeping headline "indictments", lol.

 

[Loki]

"Unverified reports" are meaniingless then.
How and why, would a former Obama appointee and retired General take an order from a civilian to circumvent the sitting President's sanction order over what the WH called, "alleged Russian interference with U.S elections"?
Does that even make sense to you, and if it does, is this the charge Flynn pled to?

The President elect, is not a civilian, and you know its not just the WH that was saying Russia interfered with our election, every intelligence agency made the same claim. We will have to show some more patience to see exactly what Flynn will testify to and how it implicates Trump if at all.

 

[Bliss]

The President elect, is not a civilian, and you know its not just the WH that was saying Russia interfered with our election, every intelligence agency made the same claim. We will have to show some more patience to see exactly what Flynn will testify to and how it implicates Trump if at all.

No that's fine, l looked up the dates in question. It was after President Trump won the election..
And Russia were threatening retalitory sanctions against the U.S after Obama sanctioned them and kicked out their diplomats.

Here is what CNN is reporting...(no mention of Trump himself though)

"...The bulk of the back-and-forth calls from Flynn to the Russian ambassador and to Trump advisers happened around December 29, while the advisers were at Mar-a-Lago in Florida

They "discussed that the members of the presidential transition team at Mar-a-Lago did not want Russia to escalate the situation," the filing said.
Flynn lied to investigators about these calls with the ambassador, according to his guilty plea and the criminal statement of offense.

The charging document states that Flynn made a false statement to the FBI when he stated that in December 2016 he did not ask Kislyak "to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia that same day; and Flynn did not recall the Russian ambassador subsequently telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of his request...

Aditionally,

A "very senior member" of Trump's transition told Flynn on December 22 to contact officials from foreign governments about how they would vote and "to influence those governments to delay the vote or defeat the resolution." Flynn then asked Kislyak to vote against or delay the resolution, the statement of offense said."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/01/politics/michael-flynn-charged/index.html

Doesn't sound illegal to me. Is this the proverbial, its not the act, its the fact you lied to the FBI?

 

[Loki]

Can we ask the annonymous 'source' ...Testify what exactly? When was Flynn asked? Is there a paper trail?
Legal phone convos?
We want answers to the sweeping headline "indictments", lol.

"In court, prosecutors detailed calls made by Flynn in late December 2016 to the senior Trump transition team at Mar-a-Lago to discuss conversations with Kislyak. There were multiple conversations with the transition while he was having conversations with Kisyak about Russia sanctions and the Russian response.
According to a statement of offense filed in court, Flynn conducted several calls with senior officials on the Trump transition team about his discussions with Kislyak related to US sanctions of Russia.
Flynn and Trump advisers discussed US sanctions three times. Their first call discussed the potential impact on the "incoming administration's foreign policy goals," according to the court filing, from which details were partially read during Flynn's plea hearing.

Michael Flynn pleads guilty: Live updates
Flynn then called Kislyak to ask that Russia not respond too harshly to US sanctions, the statement of offense said. He told a Trump transition official about that call. Russia responded by choosing not to retaliate to the sanctions.
The bulk of the back-and-forth calls from Flynn to the Russian ambassador and to Trump advisers happened around December 29, while the advisers were at Mar-a-Lago in Florida.
They "discussed that the members of the presidential transition team at Mar-a-Lago did not want Russia to escalate the situation," the filing said.
Flynn lied to investigators about these calls with the ambassador, according to his guilty plea and the criminal statement of offense.
The charging document states that Flynn made a false statement to the FBI when he stated that in December 2016 he did not ask Kislyak "to refrain from escalating the situation in response to sanctions that the United States had imposed against Russia that same day; and Flynn did not recall the Russian ambassador subsequently telling him that Russia had chosen to moderate its response to those sanctions as a result of his request."

Cillizza: Michael Flynn's guilty plea is an absolutely massive problem for Donald Trump
The document also says that Flynn falsely said he did not ask Kislyak to delay the vote on a pending United Nations Security Council resolution.
Flynn's other instance of lying to investigators involved what he told them about his conversations with foreign officials related to their planned UN Security Council votes on Israeli settlements.
A "very senior member" of Trump's transition told Flynn on December 22 to contact officials from foreign governments about how they would vote and "to influence those governments to delay the vote or defeat the resolution." Flynn then asked Kislyak to vote against or delay the resolution, the statement of offense said."

 

[Bliss]

*Loki, We crossed posts. I posted it from CNN while you were doing likewise.

 

[andreboba]

Andrebobbaaa..where are you, luv??, lol.
Flynn worked for Trump for 25 days, who then fired him.
Give us the match point -

Pay attention.

Mueller is building a case that will prove Trump was in direct contact with the Russians, they weren't the actions of rogue Trump subordinates.
And the issue isn't collusion, it's CONSPIRACY.

Trump and his campaign actively sought out and accepted illegal aid from an adversarial foreign power who knowingly hacked the DNC, then offered that information directly to the Trump campaign who suggested they release those emails through Wikileaks to give Trump and crew plausible denial.

Trump knew about the Russian social media campaign to target HRC voters with fake news stories and negative posts about her, again done with the knowledge of the Trump campaign.

The most damning charge against the Trump campaign will be that he knew the Russians micro-targeted possible Hillary voters in battleground states using bots posting anti-HRC propaganda social media posts, with voter roll data provided by the Trump campaign, via assistance from the Kushner contracted firm Cambridge Analytics.

You're right Bliss, except for hacking the DNC emails, none of these alone is a crime.
The problem is in seeking the assistance of the Kremlin to help orchestrate your election campaign and letting them do much of this grunt work for you.

Then lying about it.

Most of Trump's top aides are going down simply because they lied about being in contact withthe Russians during the campaign.

That's why people call the Trump/Russia collusion investigation, 'dumb Watergate', because of the numerous boneheaded actions the Trump campaign took.

As for General Flynn, he's not so easily dismissed by the Right.

Trump selected Flynn to be the head of the NSA and help organize his cabinet. Flynn also had a top secret security clearance. This isn't the coffee boy speaking out of turn.
After the election, Trump met with Obama during a transition meetng and Barack told him he must not hire Flynn to work in his Cabinet because U.S. intelligence considered Flynn to be compromised foreign asset for other countries.

Trump hired him anyway. The rest is history.

Flynn knows all the dirt on the Trump campaign. He knows where all the bodies are buried.
If there's one person Congress will believe over Trump, it's General Flynn.

When Flynn goes to testify before Congress on this Russian electoral conspiracy, the Trump administration will be officially over.

 

[Loki]

Pay attention.

Mueller is building a case that will prove Trump was in direct contact with the Russians, they weren't the actions of rogue Trump subordinates.
And the issue isn't collusion, it's CONSPIRACY.


Trump selected Flynn to be the head of the NSA and help organize his cabinet. Flynn also had a top secret security clearance. This isn't the coffee boy speaking out of turn.
After the election, Trump met with Obama during a transition meetng and Barack told him he must not hire Flynn to work in his Cabinet because U.S. intelligence considered Flynn to be compromised foreign asset for other countries.

Trump hired him anyway. The rest is history.

Flynn knows all the dirt on the Trump campaign. He knows where all the bodies are buried.
If there's one person Congress will believe over Trump, it's General Flynn.

When Flynn goes to testify before Congress on this Russian electoral conspiracy, the Trump administration will be officially over.

You make some solid points here AB, I'm not quite as convinced as you that this is the death knell for Trump, even if Trump is indicted as a result of all of this, impeachment is *still* a very high bar to clear, and while we will hear more demands for removal via the 25th amendment, that is no sure thing either.

 

[Bliss]

Pay attention.

Mueller is building a case that will prove Trump was in direct contact with the Russians, they weren't the actions of rogue Trump subordinates.
And the issue isn't collusion, it's CONSPIRACY.

Lol. I want to throw in 2 bottles of wine now.
I'm calling unequivocal bs on your statement above.

Trump and his campaign actively sought out and accepted illegal aid from an adversarial foreign power who knowingly hacked the DNC, then offered that information directly to the Trump campaign who suggested they release those emails through Wikileaks to give Trump and crew plausible denial.

You have zero proof of yet another fairytale - did you just make that up? Where is any proof of your accusation, AB. Seriously. Who told you that?
Wikkileaks is not Russia.

Trump knew about the Russian social media campaign to target HRC voters with fake news stories and negative posts about her, again done with the knowledge of the Trump campaign.

Who told you Trump knew, AB? Not even FB knew. And it was $100,000 in ads according to FB.
FB said the ads created a divisiveness, and both parties were targeted.

The most damning charge against the Trump campaign will be that he knew the Russians micro-targeted possible Hillary voters in battleground states using bots posting anti-HRC propaganda social media posts, with voter roll data provided by the Trump campaign, via assistance from the Kushner contracted firm Cambridge Analytics.

See above answer. FTR, Hillary spent one billion of donors money on her ads targetting both sides and Independents. How did that work out? Did the Ruskies tell her not to stump in States that swung?

You're right Bliss, except for hacking the DNC emails, none of these alone is a crime.
The problem is in seeking the assistance of the Kremlin to help orchestrate your election campaign and letting them do much of this grunt work for you.

Then lying about it.

Whooooo did, AB? Where are you getting your "info". Mueller needs to subpoena you!! Lol. Wow.
Where is the campaign solicitation? Who did it, when, how, what??
Then lying about it?
Who lied?? Tell me.

Most of Trump's top aides are going down simply because they lied about being in contact withthe Russians during the campaign.

That's why people call the Trump/Russia collusion investigation, 'dumb Watergate', because of the numerous boneheaded actions the Trump campaign took.

Manafort is charged with, conspiracy, money laundering and fraud before the election.
What does that have to do with the campaign??

As for General Flynn, he's not so easily dismissed by the Right.

Trump selected Flynn to be the head of the NSA and help organize his cabinet. Flynn also had a top secret security clearance. This isn't the coffee boy speaking out of turn.
After the election, Trump met with Obama during a transition meetng and Barack told him he must not hire Flynn to work in his Cabinet because U.S. intelligence considered Flynn to be compromised foreign asset for other countries.

Trump hired him anyway. The rest is history.

Flynn knows all the dirt on the Trump campaign. He knows where all the bodies are buried.
If there's one person Congress will believe over Trump, it's General Flynn.

When Flynn goes to testify before Congress on this Russian electoral conspiracy, the Trump administration will be officially over.

You're sadly mistaken. We already know that Obama advised Trump not to hire Flynn, however what does that have to do with Trump winning the election?
You're not answering my questions.

Of course Congress will indeed have questions and you're in for a rude awakening when you see what they might ask.
For you to declare that the Administration will then be officially over? What is wrong with you cognitively - it's just such a ridiculous statement. Stop knee-jerking.
You need to step-back snd invest in stocks, lol. DOW is breaking records, unemployment is low and our GDP is at 3.1/2 %.
Bad Administration.

 

[andreboba]

You make some solid points here AB, I'm not quite as convinced as you that this is the death knell for Trump, even if Trump is indicted as a result of all of this, impeachment is *still* a very high bar to clear, and while we will hear more demands for removal via the 25th amendment, that is no sure thing either.

Agree it would take a major miracle for a Republican led Congress to impeach Trump.
The evidence would have to be so overwhelming that GOP leaders felt they would lose base support if they didn't impeach him.

We'll see how it goes, but if Mueller can basically prove Trump has been a traitor to his own country and attempted to throw a presidential election with the aid of Russia, Congress might not have any choice.

The nation's politics are so tribal and partisan nowadays, even if Mueller presented an airtight case against Trump and his Cabinet, I feel his base support wouldn't give a damn, nor would a majority of GOP voters.

 

[Loki]

You need to step-back snd invest in stocks, lol. DOW is breaking records, unemployment is low and our GDP is at 3.1/2 %.
Bad Administration.

Bliss the GDP is not at 3.25%, that's the growth over the last quarter, and for comparison look at the chart below for the last few years. As for Trump being responsible for the DOW, he has not been in office long enough for any policies to have any real effect on the markets, here is a pretty fair and balanced link to explain it further http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stock-market-news-grading-new-record-claims-2017-10.

Funny, I'm pretty sure I remember you downplaying or dismissing the record stock market gains under Obama's administraion...

 

[Bliss]

Bliss the GDP is not at 3.25%, that's the growth over the last quarter, and for comparison look at the chart below for the last few years. As for Trump being responsible for the DOW, he has not been in office long enough for any policies to have any real effect on the markets, here is a pretty fair and balanced link to explain it further http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stock-market-news-grading-new-record-claims-2017-10.

Funny, I'm pretty sure I remember you downplaying or dismissing the record stock market gains under Obama's administraion...

I've never dismissed any Stock Gains by Obama, what l've dismissed is that you've unequivocally given any gains our current administration has provided...as a credit to Obama. That's hogwash. The gains in the last 12 months have been astronomical, so much so that even CNN have admitted it, whereas 3 mnths ago they all but dismissed it.
"The Dow has spiked nearly 6,000 points since President Trump's election last year, notching 80 daily record highs since then."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/30/investing/dow-24000-stocks-wall-street-trump/index.html
( a ^ more current reflection than your Oct article)

It's now even called, the 'TRUMP BUMP'.
Be happy. Your portfolio must be bulging. And that tax cut is surely about to help you as a business owner.

 

[Loki]

I've never dismissed any Stock Gains by Obama, what l've dismissed is that you've unequivocally given any gains our current administration has provided...as a credit to Obama. That's hogwash. The gains in the last 12 months have been astronomical, so much so that even CNN have admitted it, whereas 3 mnths ago they all but dismissed it.
"The Dow has spiked nearly 6,000 points since President Trump's election last year, notching 80 daily record highs since then."

http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/30/investing/dow-24000-stocks-wall-street-trump/index.html
( a ^ more current reflection than your Oct article)

It's now even called, the 'TRUMP BUMP'.
Be happy. Your portfolio must be bulging. And that tax cut is surely about to help you as a business owner.

At most you could attribute some irrational exuberance in the market due to the "perception" that Trump's administration will be more "business friendly". Other than that I would challenge you to list any major policy achievement that directly translated to stock market gains. We are in agreement that if tax reform passes, the markets will continue to rise, whether or not tax reform will continue to add to the deficit and cause more problems down the line remains to be seen...

 

[andreboba]

Lol. I want to throw in 2 bottles of wine now.
I'm calling unequivocal bs on your statement above.



You have zero proof of yet another fairytale - did you just make that up? Where is any proof of your accusation, AB. Seriously. Who told you that?
Wikkileaks is not Russia.


Who told you Trump knew, AB? Not even FB knew. And it was $100,000 in ads according to FB.
FB said the ads created a divisiveness, and both parties were targeted.


See above answer. FTR, Hillary spent one billion of donors money on her ads targetting both sides and Independents. How did that work out? Did the Ruskies tell her not to stump in States that swung?


Whooooo did, AB? Where are you getting your "info". Mueller needs to subpoena you!! Lol. Wow.
Where is the campaign solicitation? Who did it, when, how, what??
Then lying about it?
Who lied?? Tell me.



Manafort is charged with, conspiracy, money laundering and fraud before the election.
What does that have to do with the campaign??


You're sadly mistaken. We already know that Obama advised Trump not to hire Flynn, however what does that have to do with Trump winning the election?
You're not answering my questions.

Of course Congress will indeed have questions and you're in for a rude awakening when you see what they might ask.
For you to declare that the Administration will then be officially over? What is wrong with you cognitively - it's just such a ridiculous statement. Stop knee-jerking.
You need to step-back snd invest in stocks, lol. DOW is breaking records, unemployment is low and our GDP is at 3.1/2 %.
Bad Administration.

The reason you don't know anything about what I'm repeating is because you don't watch mainstream media.
If Flynn is prepared to say under oath Trump directed him to discuss lifting sanctions after the election, that's direct contact.
Trump repeatedly has said he had NO contact with the Russians and anyone in his campaign that did was operating on their own.

You really believe that Trump Jr., Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner met with a Kremlin attorney, a former Russian intelligence operative ans sevral other Kremlin connected players, a meeting held in Trump Tower, and DONALD TRUMP had no knowledge of it, or gave his authorization for it??

Wanna know where I get most of my info from?? A guy I'm sure is NEVER featured on Right Wing media, the author of The Plot To Hack America, former Naval Intelligence operative Malcolm Nance. Look him up on YT. There will be impeachment proceedings for Trump in 2018.

In many ways, Malcolm Nance has been the Woodward and Bernstein of he Trump/Russia investigation, and yet he's never appeared once on conservative cable news or social media.

Oh by the way, this dude used to be a registered Republican.

Read Trump Jr's email's prior to the meeting.

 

[andreboba]

At most you could attribute some irrational exuberance in the market due to the "perception" that Trump's administration will be more "business friendly". Other than that I would challenge you to list any major policy achievement that have directly translated to stock market gains. We are in agreement that if tax reform passes, the markets will continue to rise, whether or not tax reform will continue to add to the deficit and cause more problems down the line remains to be seen...

The stock market has nothing to do with real worker wages anyway.
Great if you own stock, not so much if you're hoping for a raise where you work.

THe Dow Jones is a wealth indicator for the 1%, nothing more.

Just using the same argument the GOP did against Obama when the Dow Jones spiked under his last term....where are the better, higher paying jobs???

 

[Peach State Scholar]

 

[Bliss]

ABC News has suspended Senior reporter, Brian Ross, for FOUR WEEKS without PAY, for his erroneous and misleading report on General Flynn and President Trump. ABC News apologized and retracted his error.

 

[andreboba]

 

[andreboba]

ABC News has suspended Senior reporter, Brian Ross, for FOUR WEEKS without PAY, for his erroneous and misleading report on General Flynn and President Trump. ABC News apologized and retracted his error.

Ross reported that Gen. Flynn was instructed to contact the Russians by Trump when he was a candidate for POTUS.

Actually, Trump instructed Flynn to contact the Russians after the election.

If Brian Ross worked for Fox, there would have been no correction or suspension.