Prediction: Health Care Bill Will Not Pass

:smt037 LMAO @ that Andrae! You're welcome sweetie, agreeing or disagreeing you know I still luv ya.

Abortion is an emotionally charged topic on all fronts, it's one of those topics that almost everyone has some opinion on and most defend it vigorously. Since it deals with human life, I think that's completely appropriate. But I think it's also one of the topics upon which you are unlikely to change another person's opinion. Now I get that your argument isn't against abortion, as you don't oppose a woman's right to choose, you merely feel it unfair that she can choose to keep a child against the wishes of the father, yet he is required by law to support the child regardless of his own wishes. I agree, from my point of view that part sucks.

 

Acctually, no I dont - I look at it very remotely - see my other post.

There is simply no solution that is better than the other - they both stink. Ones choice in these cases are mutually exclusive to the others - both cant have it their way. Unfortunately.
Either she decides for you, if she has her way - or YOU decide for her if you get to choose.... its equally unfair.


and btw, I dont feel attacked, I love discussions like this
I think its very healthy to debate these things.

 

I just want the power to choose that's it. The power to say if I'm ready for a kid or not. A woman has that right why shouldn't I. Its basically saying that a womans wants and needs are more valuable than a man's.

 

I seriously don't get why that's hard to acknowledge. Most of these women are really smart. Its not a right or wrong thing with me. It rarely ever is. Its just pure logic to me.

 

I love that you can look at it as a healthy debate. But again looks like we're going to have to agree to disagree on this

 

there is no fair outcome when there is an unwanted pregnancy, be that unwanted by the mother or the father. i agree with the men that it's not right that men have no say in whether or not the child is brought into the world, but then it's unfair for the woman to have an abortion. i can tell you now that once there is a life inside you deciding to abort it is one of the most horrible decisions you will EVER have to make. again, this is something that a man can and will never understand and that is where the grey area comes into play.

yes we women are emotionally charged, it's the way that we are built and what makes us women. i do find it offensive though when i'm told that we MUST get in the last word and must be always right. this is not the case.

 

power and control sit pretty tight with each other...sometimes life isn't fair...we could debate many topics of fairness between the sexes...women just happen to be holding the decision card when it comes to nurturing a fetus to birth

 

Yet here you are chiming in getting the last word huh Tarshi lol
Jk love

 

No, there is no fair outcome, which is why there is a saying that life isn't fair.

Abortions are permanent solutions. The woman has to deal with that decision for the rest of her life.

A man can easily fix himself and avoid the financial responsibilities of an unwanted pregnancy.

A woman can't take back an abortion.

 

Man, its not about that, your completely making an unfair statement - step back and look at the big picture - its equally unfair for both, someone will have to lose that battle if it came to it - both cant have their way. Its impossible, ergo- if you were to carry the child, you had the ultimate decission.

And you have that right... its when you decide to sleep with someone... If you cant agree on this - dont have sex.

Its just a general statement - I would take care of it myself and I think my idea about legally binding papes would be a great choice but I guess that will never happen.

 

Ok based on what you just said. In what other realm is it legally recognized that a male has a decision card over anything Lippy

 

I think most people don't like to equate babies and money, it's like putting a price tag on a child and that's a bit offensive, especially if you have kids. Also, a lot of people view both parents as equally responsible for the creation of a child. I agree with that, however as I said if you really don't want children then you need to ensure you're operating in prevention mode. If you're not, and they are and you become pregnant, then that's your responsibility IMO. Like Bookie said, you shouldn't rely on someone else to handle birth control, you should make sure both parties are doing their part. I guarantee you that if I was capable of having children, and I was having sex with someone, I'd be making damn sure that we were both doing whatever possible to prevent pregnancy.

I think ultimately everyone isn't debating the same points here. As I understand you Andrae, your only concern with abortion is that a woman can choose not to abort against the wishes of the father, and he still will be held financially responsible for supporting the child he indicated he didn't want. So basically the father gets no say in any part of the decision making process, and gets penalized financially, which is doubly unfair in your eyes?

 

all the women involved still have an emotional stake...espy is the only one that has mentioned not being able to have more children...i am not planning on having anymore but it could happen...i also have a 14 year old son so these are things i talk about to him as well andrae...

 

FG if you and I engage in sex, fantasy come true btw lol, what would be in it for you to essentially keep me a financial hostage. Why would any woman choose a situation where a man resents her and their child. What child would want that. Again seems like wheb a child is unplanned everyone loses.

 

Exactly!!!!
Btw I'm an accountant is it really a shock that fiscally quantify everything lol

 

let's go down the fairness path mr. finances...i don't happen to think it's fair that the women in your office doing the same job that you do every day make less money than you do

it's a known fact that women in comp jobs across the usa make less money than their male counterparts

men and women are not considered equal...that is something we face every day...

 

I 100% understand where you are comming from.. It is unfair - but there simply isnt a perfect sollution here. That is what I try to get at.

Like I said before, I wish you could have a legally binding document up front.
You both agree that IF there was a pregnancy that the sollution would be abortion or adoption - if she changes her mind if the accident happend, she would have to financially support the child herself.

 

Yep, agreed.

I think there would be a lot less babies being born if this were enacted as law.

 

I agree FG that this is a fair solution, I personally wouldn't have had a problem entering into that type of agreement, though I would have simply left out the abortion and adoption options and agreed to be solely financially responsible for the child as I know I wouldn't be able to give one up, regardless of the circumstances.

 

Different arguement all together for one I can't control what wages my boss sets. You as a woman can decide to honor my wishes though