Obama: Health Care Bill a Victory for Americans

One of the subpoints of mine about personal responsibility.

I don't particularly want "big brother" "suggesting" what I can and cannot take with my "free" care.

Corporate Socialism is the bastard demon child of socialism and capitalism.

I say it's time to take back the personal responsibility and put that child's nose in the corner for eternity.

 

xoxo,
Do you think we are headed towards fascism?

 

The moral compass of The Free Market doesn't always point to people wanting to be Good Samaritans as Ron Paul has suggested. IMO, American's need something more culturally binding than just our constitution and economic system.

What's the real value of these healthcare models? What does it say about us that so many of our counterparts have universal health care and we don't? Even though I used the term "moral compass", I certainly don't mean to inject morality into this debate, but unfortunately it always comes back to the value of life, doesn't it? How does one value life? How do we as American's or as a culture value life?

I've enjoyed your posts in this topic (I concur on some points) much like I enjoy an Ayn Rand novel, but I never totally agree with the philosophy much in the same way I don't agree with Communism/Marxism. An extreme in either way leads to a consolidation of power that needs to be checked.

As much as I love the constitution and I hate seeing it be destroyed with our civil liberties; our constitution and economic system didn't stop slavery, or the genocide of Native Americans, nor <insert any number of social ills>. If anything they conformed to the moral imperative of there time ....and changed with it as well, but much too late.

What's our imperative? Our compass on this issue? I don't really know, but I know that those who seek to keep us partisan don't want us finding out together. On this issue, I think we all agree we need better healthcare in this country and better diets/lifestyles. Does government ever have a role in that?

There are two major issues in the world in the last 10 years that have been politicized to the point of creating new social models and changing our lifestyles. I'm sure someone is profiting from this, so I'm very suspicious of those who tell me the world is changing, and they know how to save me from this, or protect me from them. Like Mulder, I trust no one, I believe in conspiracies. So, I'm not sure if reason and realism are on my side :lol: I'm pretty wacky but I will certainly try to express my pov in a cogent manner.

 

well done obama, but i heard one of the bills is going back to the house?

 

Finally somebody on here with common sense. You can't make jobs attacking the job creators. Obama is scaring the hell out of business and in turn we will be the heir's of his mistakes.

 

Hmmm the same businesses that ran offshore when they got the chance? The same ones who hire cut-rate illegals instead of natural-born Americans? The same ones who bust unions whenever they get a chance? Were they "scared" then? Cry me a river. It's called the price of doing business.

 

This is beautifully well put

 

People usually talk about small business owners when they talk about businesses not being able to hire people. They don't outsource but I think people need to speak about how deregulation made corporations like Walmart run unchecked allowing them to crush small businesses not higher taxes for healthcare

 

I'm a small business owner, and I'm not scared.

Possibly republicans have confused small business owners with pussies. Not sure how, tho, because just being a small business owner should be terrifying to a normal human. It's not really a gig for pussies, or people who are easily frightened by legislation in general. Small business owners (and I know quite a few) are not worried by this bill. They're worried that their customers are all broke and no longer spending money. If the customers don't have to worry about health care any more, maybe they'll start buying shit again. And then we can hire more managers to do our work and retire to tropical islands. We're happy, the people with new jobs are happy, the people buying things are happy, everybody's happy. Except for pussies. Pussies are never happy.

 

So, so, so true. Walmart kills local economies and rapes small businesses.

 

Funny how the right doesn't talk about that

 

You're talking about a minority of people in extreme cases.

 

Well said Chi! :smt043

 

In education E.D. Hirsch, Jr., author of "Cultural Literacy" wrote a series of books call "The Core Knowledge" for educators. It was written because he felt there was not a standard core knowledge being taught in the classrooms.

Perhaps because of our focus on diversity in the school system to promote civil liberties and by the nature of our country that is a diverse mix of immigrants and cultures we do not have that cohesive heritage that other countries have.

What is that cohesive element that creates the sense of belonging which in turn will guide the moral compass? I will say that the action of love for fellow man is a key component.

America is a melting pot of cultures. Life is valued, the life valued is one's own life and how one can find happiness. I have no doubt that corporate socialism has worked it's magic through the media to inculcate our minds with narcissistic (translating into more Cha Ching for the corporations) thoughts in pursuit of the elusive happiness. "If you buy this car now, you'll have those sexy chicks begging for a ride."

What is needed to learn to value all life?

The movie "The Last Supper" comes to mind. It is a well written film noir on political extremes and how they affect our behavior.

I'm of the opinion that government's role is only as a force to keep the consolidation of power at check not to become the consolidation of power.

And very well-spoken your POV is.

 

Obama is the latest in a long line of speach-reading puppets with no influence or authority.

The Presidency is merely a ceremonial position.


Wall Street runs America...

Washington used to be a swamp now it's a flea circus....they traded Malaria for Politics.


Nothing coming from Washington is a victory for Americans...because it's really coming from Wall Street...in this case...in the form of giant pharmaceutical companies.


Our Grandparents had it right:

"Believe only HALF of what you see and NONE of what you hear."

 

LMAO..... FH you're on fire :smt005

 

Come to work with me for a few days, you will see what i mean.

 

If they are at your work, presumably they are already getting health care.

 

I pray to god you dont give birth to a child with some condition such as Asthma - as that is a pre-existing condition, the insurace companies during the old system, could deny treatment.

I also pray that you dont get a chronic disease that require long term care or numerous expensive treatments or surgeries, as the insurance companies would drop you sooner or later and leave you with no options.


Given, they can still deny you that life saving surgery as they only will be fined 100 dollars/day/person... for the next 4 years so you can sleep safe and sound to know decent hard working people will still be dropped.


What really kills me is that the hard core right, who oppose this bill, are probably the densest when it comes to religious people.. should they not be the first ones to feel compassion and pay forward??

Its a moot point however as the "leeches" on society that you dont want to pay for are far outnumbered by decent, hardworking people that were denied treatments for the above reason.

To me, insurance companies should NOT be able to make profits on basic, insurance. I think THAT is breaking fundamental rights...

As fire and police is on a type socialized system, that is also a fundamental right to have access to that - or should we just make it so that only people that can afford it can call 911 and get the police or firefighter over to their house. Why is this different????


You could have several different tier systems so that us that can afford it, can add options... and that, the insurance companies should profit from. They would do just fine and still make profit.. this way, you can have your cake, and the people that cant, still have basic insurance.

 

what is in it for me? LoL