Obama supports Ground Zero mosque

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Loki said:
Once again I have to co-sign with Raocha on this. I think the Timothy Mcveigh analogy, as well as a David Koresh/Waco analogy are very appropriate here. Nobody would complain about a Christian church being built in OK city or Waco, even though wacked out christian extremists killed many people in those places in the name of god.

Islam has nothing to do with the wacked out extremist terrorists that caused 9/11 the same way Christianity has nothing to do with Koresh/Mcveigh. Al Qaeda/The Taliban, and other wacked out fundamentalists are not equal to all those who follow Islam, why should they suffer for the ignorance and violence of a select few?
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McVeigh wasn't motivated by an extremist radical Christian ideology to blow up the Fed Building in Waco. He was not trained and indoctrinated by Christian extremists whose agenda was to destroy America.

This argument that McVeigh and the 9/11 terrorists are cut from the same cloth is a false argument propagated by Islamic apologists. America faces no existential threat from radical, militant Christian groups.

Islamic fundamentalism, however, is at war with the West, ideologically, philosophically and militarily.

Timothy McVeigh has proven so far to be a 'lone wolf'. If anyone thinks the 9/11 hijackers were an isolated group of islamic terrorists, they simply have not been following world events since 9/11.

Furthermore, many who practice Islam SYMPATHIZE with the grievances and agenda of radical Islamists.

This is the problem; the religion itself tolerates and provides cover for the nut-jobs.

Maybe it should not be the case, but this whole mosque issue has become something bigger politically. Yes, it is an issue ultimately for New Yorkers to decide and imo the POTUS should not have spoken on it, but at this point the issue is all EMOTIONAL, and those who support the building of the Muslim community center should realize this.

So should President Obama.

By being so steadfast and adamant in their 'right' to build so close to Ground Zero, especially after all the public scrutiny, tells me that there is a separate agenda at play here for the financial backers of this community center.

By their unwillingness to find an alternate location, it tells me that too many 'moderate' Muslims don't yet get the concept of compassion and what it means to express one's freedom of religion in the USA.
 
andreboba said:
McVeigh wasn't motivated by an extremist radical Christian ideology to blow up the Fed Building in Waco. He was not trained and indoctrinated by Christian extremists whose agenda was to destroy America.

This argument that McVeigh and the 9/11 terrorists are cut from the same cloth is a false argument propagated by Islamic apologists. America faces no existential threat from radical, militant Christian groups.

Islamic fundamentalism, however, is at war with the West, ideologically, philosophically and militarily.

Timothy McVeigh has proven so far to be a 'lone wolf'. If anyone thinks the 9/11 hijackers were an isolated group of islamic terrorists, they simply have not been following world events since 9/11.

Furthermore, many who practice Islam SYMPATHIZE with the grievances and agenda of radical Islamists.

This is the problem; the religion itself tolerates and provides cover for the nut-jobs.

Maybe it should not be the case, but this whole mosque issue has become something bigger politically. Yes, it is an issue ultimately for New Yorkers to decide and imo the POTUS should not have spoken on it, but at this point the issue is all EMOTIONAL, and those who support the building of the Muslim community center should realize this.

So should President Obama.

By being so steadfast and adamant in their 'right' to build so close to Ground Zero, especially after all the public scrutiny, tells me that there is a separate agenda at play here for the financial backers of this community center.

By their unwillingness to find an alternate location, it tells me that too many 'moderate' Muslims don't yet get the concept of compassion and what it means to express one's freedom of religion in the USA.
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By George I think he's got it.
Very well stated my friend. Best post yet.
 
andreboba said:
McVeigh wasn't motivated by an extremist radical Christian ideology to blow up the Fed Building in Waco. He was not trained and indoctrinated by Christian extremists whose agenda was to destroy America.

This argument that McVeigh and the 9/11 terrorists are cut from the same cloth is a false argument propagated by Islamic apologists. America faces no existential threat from radical, militant Christian groups.

Islamic fundamentalism, however, is at war with the West, ideologically, philosophically and militarily.

Timothy McVeigh has proven so far to be a 'lone wolf'. If anyone thinks the 9/11 hijackers were an isolated group of islamic terrorists, they simply have not been following world events since 9/11.

Furthermore, many who practice Islam SYMPATHIZE with the grievances and agenda of radical Islamists.

This is the problem; the religion itself tolerates and provides cover for the nut-jobs.

Maybe it should not be the case, but this whole mosque issue has become something bigger politically. Yes, it is an issue ultimately for New Yorkers to decide and imo the POTUS should not have spoken on it, but at this point the issue is all EMOTIONAL, and those who support the building of the Muslim community center should realize this.

So should President Obama.

By being so steadfast and adamant in their 'right' to build so close to Ground Zero, especially after all the public scrutiny, tells me that there is a separate agenda at play here for the financial backers of this community center.

By their unwillingness to find an alternate location, it tells me that too many 'moderate' Muslims don't yet get the concept of compassion and what it means to express one's freedom of religion in the USA.
Click to expand...

Kane.gif
 
Imam at center of Ground Zero controversy helped Bush administration
By Liz Goodwin


Wed Aug 18, 2:51 pm ET
Controversy continues to rage over the proposed Islamic center that would house a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero in Manhattan. New polls show strong opposition to the project in New York and nationally, and every Republican front-runner for 2012 has been quick to condemn it. Even some Democrats, including Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, have said they think the mosque should be built somewhere else.

One of the tactics of mosque opponents has been to vaguely accuse the imam behind the project of having "radical ties" — a charge that's been floated by Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, and New York gubernatorial candidate Rick Lazio, among others — while also casting aspersions on the project's funding. (A spokesman for the project said through Twitter that the center's backers have not yet begun fundraising.)

But such characterizations don't square with the project's mission — or the career of its spiritual leader, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf. (Rauf heads up the Cordoba Initiative, the organization sponsoring the center.) Rauf was considered moderate enough during the Bush years to lecture FBI agents about Islam. And he is targeted on theological grounds by the same militant Islamists that mosque opponents claim he represents.

Rauf was sent by the State Department on several speaking tours in the Middle East under President George W. Bush, the Huffington Post's Sam Stein reports. He also attended a U.S.-Islamic World Forum with close Bush adviser and then-Undersecretary of State Karen Hughes. (Hughes has so far not commented on Rauf and his project, though another former Bush adviser, Michael Gerson, wrote in the Washington Post that "a mosque that rejects radicalism is not a symbol of the enemy's victory; it is a prerequisite for our own.") Right now, Rauf is on another goodwill tour in the Middle East sponsored by the State Department, where he will talk about religious tolerance in the United States.

In 2003, the Kuwaiti-born Rauf was called on to speak about Islam to FBI agents, Stein reports. He is currently an adviser to the Interfaith Center of New York, which has come out in support of his plan to build the Islamic center, which Rauf says will be open to people of all faiths.

New York Times contributor William Dalrymple noted in an op-ed this week that Rauf represents a peaceful, mystical sect of Islam called Sufism. Sufi mosques are often attacked by more radical Muslims in the Middle East who oppose its pluralistic teachings, as well as the Sufi practice of permitting a wider public role for women in religious worship. Dalrymple points out that "in the eyes of Osama bin Laden and the Taliban, [Rauf] is an infidel-loving, grave-worshiping apostate; they no doubt regard him as a legitimate target for assassination."

Despite Rauf's past promotion of interfaith cooperation, he has also made controversial statements that opponents now quote as proof of his radicalism.

He told a radio interviewer, for example, that he would not denounce Hamas as a terrorist organization, as the United States, the European Union, and other nations do.

Rauf told WABC radio in June, "Look, I'm not a politician ... I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy."

It didn't help Rauf's credibility when the same radio host tracked down a Hamas leader who said he endorsed the building of the Islamic center — however irrelevant Hamas's opinion might be to the lives of New Yorkers.

In 2001, Rauf said in a widely quoted "60 Minutes" interview: "I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened," referring to the country's support of repressive regimes in the Middle East. (In the same interview, he said: "Fanaticism and terrorism have no place in Islam.")

In a July column for the Washington Post's "On Faith" page, Abdul condemned "opportunistic rabble-rousing" of politicians who "twisted" his record as a peace builder.

"We are not the extremists," he wrote. "We are that vast majority of Muslims who stand up against extremism and provide a voice in response to the radical rhetoric. Our mission is to interweave America's Muslim population into mainstream society. We are a Muslim-American force for promoting the universal values of justice and peaceful coexistence in which all good people believe."
 
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Liquid Swords said:
LOL!!

Yeah man, SuBo is an effective weapon against the war on terror. Now these mofos know what a real virgin looks like they're more reluctant to strap on the C4. We all gotta thank her.
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Lol when I see good old Susan posted, i totally thought of Ann Widecombe, here you go another hot virgin to fantasise over.

_708147_widd.jpg
 
Interesting article for people to ponder.
Which begs the question: why weren't these facts ever told before?

Getting worked about a topic without getting all the facts is a waste of energy. But then again, it probably wouldn't make a difference to some...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38760800/ns/politics-more_politics/

updated 6:39 p.m. ET, Wed., Aug. 18, 2010
Mosques already near ground zero site
The Associated Press

A New York imam and his proposed mosque near ground zero are being demonized by political candidates — mostly Republicans — despite the fact that Islam is already very much a part of the World Trade Center neighborhood.*

And that Muslims pray inside the Pentagon, too, less than 80 feet from where terrorists attacked.*

The Pentagon chapel is part of a memorial to the 184 people killed in 2001 when hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 flew into the west side of the Pentagon and plowed through three of the building's five office rings.

Pentagon officials say that no one in the military or the families of the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks has ever protested.

They describe the 80-seat chapel as a peaceful place where some 300 to 400 Pentagon employees come to pray each week.

Mosques near WTC site
Much has been made of a proposed mosque at ground zero, but the Islamic center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The center's location, in a former Burlington Coat Factory store, is already used by the cleric for worship, drawing a spillover from the imam's former main place for prayers, the al-Farah mosque. That mosque, at 245 West Broadway, is about a dozen blocks north of the World Trade Center grounds.

Another, the Manhattan Mosque, stands five blocks from the northeast corner of the World Trade Center site.
 
Cannondale said:
Interesting article for people to ponder.
Which begs the question: why weren't these facts ever told before?

Getting worked about a topic without getting all the facts is a waste of energy. But then again, it probably wouldn't make a difference to some...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38760800/ns/politics-more_politics/

updated 6:39 p.m. ET, Wed., Aug. 18, 2010
Mosques already near ground zero site
The Associated Press

A New York imam and his proposed mosque near ground zero are being demonized by political candidates — mostly Republicans — despite the fact that Islam is already very much a part of the World Trade Center neighborhood.*

And that Muslims pray inside the Pentagon, too, less than 80 feet from where terrorists attacked.*

The Pentagon chapel is part of a memorial to the 184 people killed in 2001 when hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 flew into the west side of the Pentagon and plowed through three of the building's five office rings.

Pentagon officials say that no one in the military or the families of the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks has ever protested.

They describe the 80-seat chapel as a peaceful place where some 300 to 400 Pentagon employees come to pray each week.

Mosques near WTC site
Much has been made of a proposed mosque at ground zero, but the Islamic center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The center's location, in a former Burlington Coat Factory store, is already used by the cleric for worship, drawing a spillover from the imam's former main place for prayers, the al-Farah mosque. That mosque, at 245 West Broadway, is about a dozen blocks north of the World Trade Center grounds.

Another, the Manhattan Mosque, stands five blocks from the northeast corner of the World Trade Center site.
Click to expand...

Yup! there is the proof about it.
 
Cannondale said:
Interesting article for people to ponder.
Which begs the question: why weren't these facts ever told before?

Getting worked about a topic without getting all the facts is a waste of energy. But then again, it probably wouldn't make a difference to some...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38760800/ns/politics-more_politics/

updated 6:39 p.m. ET, Wed., Aug. 18, 2010
Mosques already near ground zero site
The Associated Press

A New York imam and his proposed mosque near ground zero are being demonized by political candidates — mostly Republicans — despite the fact that Islam is already very much a part of the World Trade Center neighborhood.*

And that Muslims pray inside the Pentagon, too, less than 80 feet from where terrorists attacked.*

The Pentagon chapel is part of a memorial to the 184 people killed in 2001 when hijacked American Airlines Flight 77 flew into the west side of the Pentagon and plowed through three of the building's five office rings.

Pentagon officials say that no one in the military or the families of the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks has ever protested.

They describe the 80-seat chapel as a peaceful place where some 300 to 400 Pentagon employees come to pray each week.

Mosques near WTC site
Much has been made of a proposed mosque at ground zero, but the Islamic center would be established at 45-51 Park Place, just over two blocks from the northern edge of the sprawling, 16-acre World Trade Center site. Its location is roughly half a dozen normal Lower Manhattan blocks from the site of the North Tower, the nearest of the two destroyed in the attacks.

The center's location, in a former Burlington Coat Factory store, is already used by the cleric for worship, drawing a spillover from the imam's former main place for prayers, the al-Farah mosque. That mosque, at 245 West Broadway, is about a dozen blocks north of the World Trade Center grounds.

Another, the Manhattan Mosque, stands five blocks from the northeast corner of the World Trade Center site.
Click to expand...

granted the suicidal terrorists were of Muslim faith, and would proudly die while 'praying' in the Pentagon, if it meant martyrdom, I don't see how that one helps their position. If anything, it may draw a wild eyebrow like it did with me.

:confused:
 
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