3 San Jose State students charged with hate crime against black roommate

The Dark King said:
Dude you're usually a lot smarter than this
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that's funny, because I was thinking the same thing about your argument!

By 17 you should be able to think your way out of a situation like that. Obviously.

Exactly how old do you have to be to be able to think your way out of that? Something was wrong with the guy, or he just wasn't raised right.

Could you see yourself handling it like he did? C'mon.
 
Plus, don't comment on my smarts when you actually said this:

"My issue is because he's male we expect something different than if were a girl" :mrgreen:

lol
 
medullaslashin said:
did they also rape him? I dunno, maybe they should have

How a grown ass man can let a bunch of college boys "terrorize" him without any sort of pushback is beyond me

So he just took the 3/5ths stuff and finally when they were putting chains around his neck, went crying to the authorities? Shame on everyone involved, including him

Yet another fine example of black men raised by women. Proud momma's boys :roll:
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James 4:11-12 “Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?”
 
medullaslashin said:
How about we all breathe a sigh of relief that he's not in prison for dousing them all with gasoline and tossing a match to the place? (because he'd reeally have a hard time in prison :mrgreen:)

He was in fear for his life, "terrorized" and didn't have the balls to pushback? On a college campus? In the middle of CA? Where presumably there were other people walking around not in fear of their lives?

:roll:

He doesn't even have the balls to go to the authorities? I feel sorry for him, and not just because he was assaulted.

Pushback in that situation is far from hyper macho. It's called not being a flat-out bitch. Even women don't take shit like that

He prolly could've nipped that shit in the bud with the first 3/5ths comment by showing he wasn't having it. Bullies typically feel you out first. If they come to the conclusion that it's not going to be fun, 9 times out of 10 they will leave you the fuck alone.

Like I said: you call them on their shit. You go to the authorities if need be so that there's a record of what's happening for the courts. Then you prepare, and when they put their hands on you, you take care of business. But 99.9999% of the time you won't have to.

Presumably he could've even changed dorms. Just as likely, he could've had the bullies kicked out of the dorm, especially if there were witnesses. but do nothing? :mrgreen: that's crazy

Even mlk wasn't about just quietly taking shit. Even jeezus wasn't.

You guys better learn: trends happen. So you don't let fools become emboldened or start to feel they have impunity. Shit will only get muuuch worse for you if you do.

To paraphrase Sun Tzu: once you have no choice but to go to war, in a way, you've already lost.

Attitudes like what your pushing are going to make the future just like the past. Except in the past you at least had community as refuge :mrgreen:

Which brings me to another point: where were his people? He didn't even have anyone to talk about this shit with? shame shame shame

There's gotta be more to this story than what we're reading here.

But anyway, bm are the only people who just meekly accept cross-cultural bullying. If that were a korean would the story have been different? If the perpetrators had been other black men would the story have been different?

I'm telling you, that's bitch stuff. I'm not a violent person, really - there's just too much better stuff to do with your life. And I hate self-conscious machismo. But you don't just quietly take shit. That's simply the wrong solution.. That's how you end up feeling you have no other options, boiling then exploding, like chris dorner.
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:smt039
 
medullaslashin said:
By 17 you should be able to think your way out of a situation like that. Obviously.

Exactly how old do you have to be to be able to think your way out of that? Something was wrong with the guy, or he just wasn't raised right.
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John 7:24 - Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
 
medullaslashin said:
I won't call this guy a punk anymore, because I think there was something wrong with him psychologically that he was willing to put up with that shit. Barricading himself in his room like that and going to class the next day is a clue to his mindset.

At least I hope that's what it was. I would love to ask the guy exactly what was he was thinking.

But anyway, tdk you're changing the argument. Are you saying he should've stood up for himself or not? Are you saying it's understandable that he did nothing about the problem or not?

Are you saying "My issue is because he's male we expect something different than if were a girl" :roll: or not?

Exactly what's going on here?

Personally, I know how I would've handled it because I know how I've handled things in the past. I also know that life is hard enough without letting other males pick on you, especially privileged motherfuckers like these guys.

No front. No "badassism" necessary. It would take too long to explain my mindset, but seeing this and seeing that... nothing's gonna make me simply take shit, whatever it takes. Better off dead. Obviously.

..And speaking of badassism, let me make it clear: I have zero respect for badassism. I don't even like coming across as promoting it. Valuing badassism is part of what's wrong with the world today. It's a stupid way of thinking. I wouldn't advise any son of mine to jump bad.

But let's not mistake courage and self-respect for badassism. You guys all think you have courage and self-respect, but don't forget: no such thing as courage without risk. No such thing as self-respect without acting on it.

And you keep talking this nonsense about 7 to 1. C'mon, this isn't a cage fight. And this guy had all kinds of outs to this situation. Walk you through it? No problem:

1. Room full of college aged whiteboys, I would've been expecting some sort of problem from the jump. Not to be a bigot, but I know american culture and the culture of college aged whiteboys too well to be off my guard like that.

2. Calmly confront them from the first comment, prepared and knowing how you will handle whatever reaction. Bullies savor an emotional response, fear or anger. Calmly confront them and let them "represent". And don't forget to record it, so you have a record of the incident, a record of what went down in case, er, they beat you up ... or something :smt096

3. Expose their antics to the authorities in no uncertain terms and apply for a room transfer so you don't have to worry about them putting shit in your food and on your toothbrush, stuff like that..

4. If they had pursued a problem from there, they would have a serious problem on their hands. I'm no badass, but let me put that out there so that people who think like me know that they're not alone in their thinking. And that's all I'm going to say about that.

In short, I wouldn't want to live with them, in fact I'd do all I can to get them kicked out of the school. But if they didn't, I sure wouldn't be tiptoeing around them on campus. And I sure wouldn't simply take shit. There would indeed be blowback.

And stop making stupid false comparisons to slavery or the holocaust. Those are extremely weak analogues at best.

btw, I've deliberately written this without making any reference to violence. :smt039:smt002:smt045:smt023

It's really never the solution :smt083
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I don't know if you remember that period of time but from what I remember of 17 you are crazy emotional and rarely think rationally or have the self esteem to seek help. Its all about handling shit on your own, you're still at the age where its seems better to keep your mouth shut than "snitch". I am saying in clear and certain terms I wish he would have stood up for himself but I am completely understand why he didn't. I wouldn't paint him as punk or bitch just because he didn't execute the courage we'd ideally like to see people have.
And if you don't like the slavery and holocaust comparisons how about people who live in abusive homes or are in abusive relationships? Its really common to people use the dumb ass/uninformed argument of "well why don't you just leave. Tell a cop" shit may be far more complicated than just telling someone . He could have realistically been in fear for his life if he did tell. If I were 17 today I sure as fuck would be scared with the kind of racialized climate we have out there. I'm not saying that was his thinking but I can see how it could influence his thinking, I've never seen a more blatant kill blacks and ask questions later with in my life time like it is now.
And to be honest of the two purely emotional responses of take it or fight back in the way you're suggesting I think he made the better choice because in this shitty country his ass would have been before a jury that would have little to no sympathy and he'd ruin his life.
Oh and to your list of what he should have done in terms of approaching them calmly, what makes you think he didn't do that?
Young boys would see that as a sign of weakness and harass even worst as you also mentioned.
We can agree this was fucked up, I just don't see why or how you can logically criticize someone in a situation like that.
 
medullaslashin said:
that's funny, because I was thinking the same thing about your argument!

By 17 you should be able to think your way out of a situation like that. Obviously.

Exactly how old do you have to be to be able to think your way out of that? Something was wrong with the guy, or he just wasn't raised right.

Could you see yourself handling it like he did? C'mon.
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Me? No
I would have left rather than confronted them
But can I understand how someone would react the way he did? Absolutely.

And let me add its really weird you refer to the people messing with him as boys but this 17 year old is suppose to be a "grown ass man"
Which is it? Are they boys or men? Does being black demand you to be more responsible than if you were white?
 
The Dark King said:
I am saying in clear and certain terms I wish he would have stood up for himself but I am completely understand why he didn't. I wouldn't paint him as punk or bitch just because he didn't execute the courage we'd ideally like to see people have.
And if you don't like the slavery and holocaust comparisons how about people who live in abusive homes or are in abusive relationships? Its really common to people use the dumb ass/uninformed argument of "well why don't you just leave. Tell a cop" shit may be far more complicated than just telling someone . He could have realistically been in fear for his life if he did tell. If I were 17 today I sure as fuck would be scared with the kind of racialized climate we have out there. I'm not saying that was his thinking but I can see how it could influence his thinking, I've never seen a more blatant kill blacks and ask questions later with in my life time like it is now.
And to be honest of the two purely emotional responses of take it or fight back in the way you're suggesting I think he made the better choice because in this shitty country his ass would have been before a jury that would have little to no sympathy and he'd ruin his life.
Oh and to your list of what he should have done in terms of approaching them calmly, what makes you think he didn't do that?
Young boys would see that as a sign of weakness and harass even worst as you also mentioned.
We can agree this was fucked up, I just don't see why or how you can logically criticize someone in a situation like that.
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Very wise words. I think we sometimes forget when we were younger we didn't have the clarity of thought we have at older ages. And these times are indeed the worse, in my opinion that I have ever seen.
 
BrianJ said:
Matthew 6:14-15 - For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
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Go to the nazi sites and tell that to THEM..
 
flaminghetero said:
Go to the nazi sites and tell that to THEM..
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Why limit it to just the nazis?

My post was a bible verse in response to medullaslashins' "There would indeed be blowback" comment. Matthew 6:14-15 states "For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Is that applicable only to nazis on nazi sites? Or is it also applicable to "all of Gods children" up to and including medullaslashin and his comment on this site?

I'm not sure but it sounds like you are a bit angry so please, if it is applicable remember Psalm 37:8 "Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret--it leads only to evil."
 
pettyofficerj said:
Seems like more are concerned about this kids toughness and not the fact that his roomies were neo nazis straight out the movie higher learning

Come on now
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The Dark King said:
I always wonder if these dudes who promote that bs would actually do anything. It's one thing to want to see justice done and to encourage young bm to stand up for themselves but it's a totally different thing when you call them a bitch/pussy when they don't live up to some fantasy version of how they see themselves.
Ironically I'm still waiting for at least one to call this shit what it is and that's victim blaming.
7 to 1 and you let them white boys punk you? Little punk ass bitch.
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Bullying is Bullying, whether it be motivated by race jealousy or whatever. I have a background dealing with racists and hostile people in general at an early age. My parents lived in an all white neighborhood where I was outnumbered and called nigger, I had to defend myself because I am black. My grandmother lived in the projects where I was the kid with the most toys and had to defend myself. Yeah I was the kid on the block that had the toy swimming pool in the hood as well as all the latest He-man action figures (lmao). Long story short....I had to fist fight with my own neighbor in the projects while I was good friends with his brother and best friends with his first cousin. Not to mention all the other guys I had to keep in check that wanted to come by and take or break my shit.

In the white neighborhood my neighbor was 3 or 4 years older than me and much bigger. He and his younger brother were my enemies for a long time. I had to set them straight along with the other guys in the neighborhood that disliked me because I was black. Some of the white guys in that neighborhood was cool though and overall I got along just fine. In this neighborhood I did not fight early on but I made it clear that I would if I had too, plus I was already well seasoned from my bouts in the projects. Eventually, I did beat the shit out of my neighbor without ever getting into a fist fight with his older brother (would have fought him too) but assertiveness alone worked for some years. I have not even begun to scratch the surface of the background I have with this subject matter, just sharing enough to say my reference point is not some Hollywood skit, but those who are reading this can think what they may.

Anyway.....the guy in this story did not have to let it get to the point were he was getting attacked physically. It is not his fault that he was attacked, but this is not some random shit that happened on the street. There was a hostile environment that got out of control due to the fact that he did not confront the problem. At seventeen you still have a lot to learn but by then hopefully we know that problems (especially bullies) don't go away by you just ignoring them. Or maybe I am just fortunate that I was not sheltered my whole life.
 
Beasty said:
At seventeen you still have a lot to learn but by then hopefully we know that problems (especially bullies) don't go away by you just ignoring them. Or maybe I am just fortunate that I was not sheltered my whole life.
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This right here. At seventeen, if your mind is right, you know better than to handle the situation as badly as that guy did.

I bet he wouldn't handle it that way again, for sure.
 
Beasty said:
Bullying is Bullying, whether it be motivated by race jealousy or whatever. I have a background dealing with racists and hostile people in general at an early age. My parents lived in an all white neighborhood where I was outnumbered and called nigger, I had to defend myself because I am black. My grandmother lived in the projects where I was the kid with the most toys and had to defend myself. Yeah I was the kid on the block that had the toy swimming pool in the hood as well as all the latest He-man action figures (lmao). Long story short....I had to fist fight with my own neighbor in the projects while I was good friends with his brother and best friends with his first cousin. Not to mention all the other guys I had to keep in check that wanted to come by and take or break my shit.

In the white neighborhood my neighbor was 3 or 4 years older than me and much bigger. He and his younger brother were my enemies for a long time. I had to set them straight along with the other guys in the neighborhood that disliked me because I was black. Some of the white guys in that neighborhood was cool though and overall I got along just fine. In this neighborhood I did not fight early on but I made it clear that I would if I had too, plus I was already well seasoned from my bouts in the projects. Eventually, I did beat the shit out of my neighbor without ever getting into a fist fight with his older brother (would have fought him too) but assertiveness alone worked for some years. I have not even begun to scratch the surface of the background I have with this subject matter, just sharing enough to say my reference point is not some Hollywood skit, but those who are reading this can think what they may.

Anyway.....the guy in this story did not have to let it get to the point were he was getting attacked physically. It is not his fault that he was attacked, but this is not some random shit that happened on the street. There was a hostile environment that got out of control due to the fact that he did not confront the problem. At seventeen you still have a lot to learn but by then hopefully we know that problems (especially bullies) don't go away by you just ignoring them. Or maybe I am just fortunate that I was not sheltered my whole life.
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Well I'd say maybe its due to you not being sheltered because I had conflicts sure but never a situation where I was being harassed in my home and out numbered by such a large ratio. I think we can all agree growing up black isn't easy in this country (any country for that matter) but I don't expect a kid to act with the reason of an adult. Sure he could have done a lot of things just like Treyvon Martin could have run or that girl in Detroit could have waved down cars instead of knocking on some stranger's door at 3 am or battered women can call 911 after the first beating. There's always something you can do I just don't it's fair nor logical to blame him for inaction in such a tough spot.
I know I get on my soapbox a lot, I'm aware that shit can get annoying, but a serious dialogue we need to have as men especially black men is not to instill young men with all this shame for not being able to control violent/potentially violent situations. There's very little encouragement yet a shit ton of criticism that we recognize can turn our daughters into strippers and other sex workers but don't acknowledge the impact it has on our sons. Even look at the language we use the seventeen year old victim is "a grown ass man" yet the people harassing him were "boys"(Not poking fun Med just making a point, it's how most bm I know would phrase it). Its the same pervasive cultural norm that makes so many people view our kids incapable of innocence and always viewed as threats.
Overall I want us as men to let these young men know they can come to us adult men who have been through similar situations and seek guidance without ridicule and shame.
We always talk about what we can do to change the violent culture that seems to be more present in the black community than other ones, how about we start there.
 
BrianJ said:
Psalm 37:8 "Refrain from anger and turn from wrath; do not fret--it leads only to evil."
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1. I'm not christian.

2. Even jeezus had his gripes and addressed them rather than ignored them.

3. We're not the people who need saving. Like flaminghetero suggested, try that on the people who wake up hating and go to bed hating, all while enjoying a comparatively privileged position in society. They really need saving.
 
medullaslashin said:
1. I'm not christian.

2. Even jeezus had his gripes and addressed them rather than ignored them.

3. We're not the people who need saving. Like flaminghetero suggested, try that on the people who wake up hating and go to bed hating, all while enjoying a comparatively privileged position in society. They really need saving.
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you realize that it took very few men and just three nails to hang jesus from the cross...this young man was out numbered 7 to 1

17 is not a grown man...in fact today that age group turning 18 is less likely to be out on there own...they are working or going to school...live at home or in the dorm...
 
As I told TDK in a rep, we're fixing to get some snow in PA, because I totally agree with his position in this discussion.

That young man may have tried to speak out against his tormentors and was ignored or not taken seriously. It happens all.the.time.
 
Ches said:
As I told TDK in a rep, we're fixing to get some snow in PA, because I totally agree with his position in this discussion.

That young man may have tried to speak out against his tormentors and was ignored or not taken seriously. It happens all.the.time.
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hell is freezing over in Colorado to because I rarely agree with TDK
 
Well, none of us were there, and none of us know this guy, so let's just agree there's more to this story than we know.

Let's also agree that none of us would have handled it like he did, and none of us would advise any son of ours to handle it like he did.
 
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