Random Conversation 2.0

I understand that you're talking about illegal drugs here like pot, but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate and say that there are times when a person on drugs has harmed another person, through physical or sexual assault, stealing, murder, the list goes on.

So where does one draw the line in the sand when it comes to legalizing certain drugs and not legalizing certain drugs?

And yes, I understand the logistics of alcohol and the harm it does as well, especially with idiots drinking and driving and the excuses of "I drive better when I'm drunk" and blah, blah, blah. There isn't an easy answer to that, as we all know what happened during Prohibition.

The fact is, there isn't an easy answer to the legalization of drugs, period.

 

Libertarian fantasy until it affects others. So what happens when a guy high on drugs robs or kills somebody? Who bears the cost of jail or rehab?

 

Tax payers like we do with drunk drivers and people high on.prescription drugs.

 

yeah... ppl commit crimes, with and without drugs, with and without alcohol, with and without a good backround or home. some even do, without having a need for it (like needing money) they just do it coz its fun to them. sick i know. it s in the nature of man, if you ask me and not a question of what someone consumes.
sure, some ppl might to tend more towards it under influence of drugs. i doubt it with weed, coz all weed smokers i ever dealt with were rather carm and laid back ppl.
cant say the same thing about alcohol tho.

 

Amen repped

 

This.

 

The jails are full over full just on this premise. We have a draconian legal system and one of the words worst attrition rates. I fail to see how simply making some drugs legal will help this. I think that the drug related legal system originally was based on protecting victims of drug users crimes against others. That has obviously not worked out very well.

I think for us to be able to handle legalizing some drugs, we need to fix a lot of other legal issues first. One being ethnic profiling. Other countries have managed much better in drug use/legal issues.

 

I dunno... maybe the same people who have beared the cost of the failed $40 - 50 billion dollar per year war on drugs since Nixon was in office?

Funny thing is that you don't even realize that the answer to both of your questions is... "Same thing that happens now.". Literally, the biggest difference is that with legalization, we would NOT be paying the ridiculous cost for non-violent drug related offenders. Also, along your lines of logic; just over 40k people die from second hand smoke related illness (source: CDC). Should we not be locking up smokers for 'killing somebody'?

You worry about people robbing and killing each other, but somehow fail to recognize that prohibition promotes underground activity which is directly tied to crime. Somehow, supposedly bright minds have failed to learn the lessons taught by alcohol prohibition. I do get peoples fears though, I know where they come from and I don't blame people one bit for being afraid of the 'what ifs' and 'this may happens'.

 

People commit those same offenses when drunk, also while completely sober. I don't think a line in the sand should be drawn with regard to legalizing drugs. I'd counter that question with, "where should the line in the sand be drawn with regard to prohibition of any of our civil liberties?"

I really don't see this as a matter of just legalizing drugs, so much as an issue with the entire concept of prohibition. Prohibition is a direct assault to our natural rights as human beings. The idea that someone knows better than me what I can or should be allowed to do with my body is ridiculous. The idea that the government is somehow protecting us from these horrible crimes which are born solely of drug use is fear invoking and entirely misleading.

 

What about those drugs like heroin that when you try it once, you're hooked and it ruins your life?

Maybe by keeping those types of drugs illegal, it's saving some people from having their lives ruined. Maybe there are some people out there that haven't tried these types of drugs because they're illegal, but would try it once legalized and then their lives are done.

There are some seriously bad drugs out there that are illegal that can mess up your life and the lives of those around you by association.

I understand what you're saying and I've even thought that legalizing drugs and making people go to pharmacies to get them would be far better than what is happening now, but there is still that little voice in my head that says, some of these drugs are just far too addictive and dangerous.

 

Portugal definitely has a good standing on the drug bit. All of them legalized and yet, drug abuse has been down....

http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...lization-drug-abuse-down-by-half-in-portugal/

 

Limited decriminalization for drug abusers is a compelling argument, provided they're given the option of treatment over jail. I wouldn't extend decriminalization, however, to the sellers or distributors of contraband.

Sorry Marlo, Avon, and Heisenberg but your ass is going to prison.

In the third season of The Wire "Bunny" Colvin, Baltimore police major, decides to create a legalized zone for the sale and consumption of drugs in the city. His reasoning is that it'll sequester the social pathologies associated with the drug trade in a police-supervised atmosphere. The fictionalized portrayal of "Hamsterdam" looks like a Boschian Hell, but for the most part it works.

My concern would be in how such an area would affect the values of the surrounding community. Would young people mark their calendars until the day they could take a trip to the local Hamsterdam for their first hit?

Cocaine, heroin, and meth are also not experienced in the same way alcohol and marijuana are. Some stimulants are powerful enough to keep you hooked for decades.

The ability to function as a productive member of society takes a huge hit when you're on cocaine, for example. We all have known at least one guy who smokes too much weed, and lives in a rundown apartment with empty pizza boxes on the floor. His priorities may not fall in line with most people but he has a job, maybe as a grocery store security guard, and is still invited to family gathering. You've never known anyone on crack or meth who can hold a job and isn't a source of sorrow for family and their increasingly narrow circle of friends.

The drug war has not been a success but I'm highly skeptical about a favorable outcome resulting from legalization as well.

 

Agreed, the people that cant control what they do have and will always be the source of it. someone once said guns dont kill people, people kill people.

 

Not true there are plenty of functioning addicts on all sort of drugs, of course a full blown coke addiction can leave you homeless but majority does get up and go to work every day

 

Might just be me, but why does it seem like every race obsessed wanna be pseudo intellectual nutjob on the internet finds their way to this site & not a damn one ever engages in anything passing for normal everyday conversations outside of the topic of race?

 

I'm staying quiet on that one, Ra, lest I get a "pot meet kettle" response. Lol

 

exactly, cant have fun or decent convo about relationships...if it was about those two race will get injected or it gets combative.

shit gets old.

 

Don't get me wrong on this because I understand discussions about race are going to come up regularly one way or another and I don't have any issues about the discussions. But we have people who seem to just log on here and anytime they contribute to any discussions it's strictly race related in some form. And never any general conversations with other members on other topics especially normal day to day chit chat about themselves. Makes them come across as clinical minded drones or aliens from some sci-fi movie with no substance who are only interested in conducting research or "educating" lower life forms. Just my opinion however.

 

i think, talking bout interracial relatationships, race or racism will always be a part this way or the other, since mostly everybody who is in such a relationship or dates interracial is at one point or the other, some more, others less, confronted with it.
but i agree, that its sort of tiring that the focus is always so much leaned on it, while after all what makes a relationship is not about the races involved.
someone once told me, the better you are the more you ll be hated on. i experienced this to be true. so since i know there is ppl out there who think dating interracial or interracial realationship are somewhat not from this world, since they indeed can work, we ll just have to live with the hate knowing we are having something special going on.
from what i ve seen, here and elsewhere, it doesnt make much sense discussing with the kind of ppl that always like to relate to the race topic because the mostly dont see the "big picture" and are hard to be convinced that its not all about race. well. how about just letting them have their ways and we ll just keep doing our thing happily? it s not worth the headache. IMO

 

I don't get a headache over it. It just baffles & amuses me because as you say they obviously can't relate to interracial relationships other than on the racial aspect of it, but they seem to want to convince themselves & everyone else otherwise. So much so that they try to come across as more knowledgeable on everything, specifically on race, when clearly they are not.