2nd Amendment Supporters

Yes. Of course. That's exactly what I meant. (OBVIOUS SARCASM)

 

My right to carry a firearm is as important to me as a woman's right to decide what to do with their own bodies. If no one can tell a woman whether or not to have an abortion, than they sure as hell better not try to tell me to not own a gun, or hinder my Constitutional right to do so, in almost any way.

In massachusetts there is a 12 month waiting period to get a gun license, which i consider a little extreme for a citizen that has never even gotten a traffic violation, like myself.

Simply put, if you try to take away my right to carry an Uzi, i'll probably shoot you with it first. Ironically enough, that's the right to bear arms in principle. It is a check against the government in case it decides to become too powerful and overthrow the will of the people (democracy, the way it was originally designed).

For those who think there is no reason to ever carry a firearm, or own an arsenal, who are YOU to tell other citizens what the can or cannot do?? Turn that idea back upon yourself and see if your ok with that.

:smt067

P.S. If you've never read or lived under the american constitution, you know, that document that allows the people to decide how they choose to live, i don't even feel you'd fully understand the issue at hand.

 

:smt104

 

FG - I think all that can be said in truth is that, as Non-Americans, we will never understand the whole thing. And Americans will always have a hard time understanding anything different.

 

100% agree with you but that statement was a bit - uh...conspiracy tinted imo. And Im not naieve in any sense of the word.

 

Well, the US Supreme Court has ruled that Americans have a constutional right to own some firearms at least, but so far that is only a check against the federal government. The second amendment has yet to be "incorporated" against the states. Incorporation occurs by way of the 14th amendment and that is the way that the 1st amendment and others have been ruled to be binding on state and municipal governments. Now most states like say 41 of them also have "right to bear arm clauses" in their state constitution, but some places like California do not. Recently the handgun ban int he city of Chicago was challenged based on the Supreme court decision. The Appeals court that handled the case said that the Supreme court Heller decision did not apply to the states...so they let the Chicago handgun ban remain. However the 9th circuit court of appeals (the most liberal in the country) also recently ruled that the Heller decision did apply to the States. This conflict in US appeals court rulings is the prefect setup for the US Supreme court to take the chicago case and make a decision as to rather the 2nd Amendment is to join the other amendments and be effective against state and local govts. This will be a big event in places like Chicago, New York and the state of MA...for other parts of the country very little will change.

 

Hard to understand if you are not familiar with the history of the US and the US Constitution. What is ironic is that people like you, from Europe, should be keenly aware of what runaway government control can lead to. I'll bet your grandparents and great-grandparents are/were quite aware.

<snip>
Our Founding Fathers, having endured the tyranny of the British Empire, wanted to guarantee our God-given liberties. They devised our three branches of government and our system of checks and balances. But they were still concerned that the system could fail, and that we might someday face a new tyranny from our own government. They wanted us to be able to defend ourselves, and that's why they gave us the Second Amendment. They knew that a government facing an armed populace was less likely to take away our rights, while a disarmed population wouldn't have much hope. As Ronald Reagan reminded us, "Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction." Without our Second Amendment rights, all of our other rights aren't inalienable, they're just "on loan" from the government.

http://www.verticalpoliticsinstitut...Issue_id=fffe61d4-fc59-4970-a349-5edb944ce3f9

 

Scandinavia certainly dont have any history of it at all..but you are right there has been many issues in the history of Europe, but Europe is a much different place that the US - smaller countries, vast difference in culture between small homogenous groups that has had underlying tension etc and so on. And then we have all the crazy dictators, than somehow was able to take advantage of such things. Not a pretty history, you are correct. You dont have to be a grand parent to recall that.

I guess my point was more on the:
1) I dont see it happening here, based on some of the above facts ...
2) More important - if it would, I doubt that civilians having guns would be able to stop it if the US government decided to go that route.

Just a thought - on the other hand - I did live in Texas for 12 years and certainly owned my gun and went to the range to be able to shoot it.. so Im split on this issue.

 

I lived in the Dallas Fort Worth area of Texas for a while...carried guns there also.

300 million guns and about 90 million gun owners is probably one of the greatest deterents to tyranny the world has ever known. Think about it for a minute.

 

:shock: America is scary. :smt105

 

You really have to think about it on a larger scale than your looking at it. That makes it clear the understanding american's have of it (being drilled into us since childhood), and the trouble that non-american's have with grasping the idea.

Your second point states that in your mind, the people will "never be able to overthrow a government like the U.S. has." In your mind, the battle is hopeless and therefore, you've already lost. For all intensive purposes, if such a battle did occur, you may as well already be dead with that in your mind. Again, american's clearly think differently.

A warrior cannot win a battle when he doesn't believe he has a fighting chance to begin with.


We have overthrown powerful overbearing governments in the past (revolutionary war; 1776 - 1783), so why the hell wouldn't we be able to do it again??? Weapons have changed over 230 years, but the simple concept of power in numbers have not. The people's chances are increased by the fact that the government of the united states would seriously think twice about firing on it's own people, as they did the FIRST time this occured (American Civil War; 1861-1865). However, they would if necessary.

It's the simple conceptual thought of such a battle/war though, as Gunman said: Imagine 300 million armed people against the american military, most of whom would take issue with firing at americans to begin with. This is what our right to bear arms brings to the table. A battle, that at least in theory, COULD be won. 300 million vs. 2 million (american military). I'll take my chances with those odd/numbers.... :smt003

 

Very interresting discussion indeed and I love it!
This is an issue that some of my friends talk about regularly.


I have a question though.

How many of these gun owners acctually go and keep their skills up - its not as easy to shoot a gun as it seems (and I mean hitting a target).
Also, the people that do go to a range go shoot at stationary targets.. Now shooting at a moving target is a whole other story.
I bet most people wouldnt be able to hit a moving target - with a gun.

Then - how many people that think they can acctually pull the trigger on someone with the intention to kill - could acctually do so when it really mattered.
I mean if my life was threatened could I still shoot, without hessitation, and accurately if I was face to face with a trained soldier???

I really think this is a very interresting topic and I do like to read about your views as someone that truly comes from a fairly safe little duckpond.

 

Yeah, we're all thugs and packing heat, so don't fuck with us or you'll get capped.

 

Ehh, I don't own nor want to own a gun. I couldn't care less whether you have a gun or not just don't shoot me with it please. And for the love of god keep it locked away from kids, so tired of those stories of kids shooting their siblings by accident.

 

WORD!

 

very big supporter of it, as it is a constitutional right here in the US, just as freedom of speech, religion, assembly, and the right not to be held as a slave. This is a big vast country where people love to hunt, target practice, protect their homes, collect guns and if they choose just own one. the Police say that it is a great deterrent that criminals know a person has a gun they are less likely to break in a home. So, yes big big fan and supporter of it.

Im a hunter so thats my primary usage and second for protection.

 

I wouldn't call it an evil. If the military decides they had enough of Obama and staged a successful coup, I believe many people will reconsider their anti-gun stance.

 

Not at all, my friend.

 

Co-sign

 

If the military didn't get enough of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, I'm sure they won't get enough of somebody who actually cares about them and gives them what they need to get the job done.

Racist against your own, you should be ashamed.