aristide is back

glad to see him return to haiti

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/21/aristide-return-haiti-election

 

I hope he is barred from running.

 

Aristide wasn't crook and murder unlike Baby Doc.. He peed the elite in haiti for raising the medium-wage for working poor and against free trade.. This man is hero among those folks in slums and working poor..

 

great post......aristide was a priest, so he knew the day to day struggles of his ppl intimately, plus his wife comes as very inteligent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erWoNvhoeOQ

 

He was not a comptent leader and that is the problem. What can a priest do? This is why the Preval was a good choice.

 

Aristide was comptent leader that wasn't robbing the country blind.. Instead, he was improving the plight of poor and working class people of Haiti and trying rebuild economy by not support free trade agreement unlike current government is doing.. He demanded that the France paid Haiti back as well...

 

1. A free trade agreement is what is needed to bring the country up. It was done because Preval and the prime minster actually have experience at this. By not supporting free trade, it makes it hard for the citizens to buy the products they need and also get jobs. This is one of the points that brought the USSR down and many other countries. You need to buy and sell with the world and not pretend like you are the only one there.

2. they can demand all they want but the french will not pay.

3. Before the earthquake, Haiti was doing well under Preval and their prime minster.

4. Aristid(although good) does not know how to run an economy. It was much more improved under Preval.

 

preval was a puppet of the us, a true uncle tom......i didn't see many haitans cheering for him....

 

lol here we go with the puppet. Preval is a puppet

FLaminghetero calls Obama the puppet

Let me remind you that People called Aristide a puppet for the usa as well.
what's your point?

Just ways of discrediting all the hard work people do. He was elected and was not kicked like aristide. He knew how to do it correctly and Haiti came up in a nicer economy over the term of his administration. If it was not for that earthquake, It would have been much nicer. It was under his administration that Haiti finally lost the ranking of poorest nation in north America for a short amount of time. You need people who understand the economy not religion.

 

free trade only benefits rich nations......no developed nation has grown into what is it. the us, most of europe,japan,china, etc have only grown through tariffs and economic nationalism. exports under free trade retard development.


french payment isn't the issue. the issue is french interference in haitian affairs.

haiti was doing well under preval? if you mean sweatshop leader of the west indies, then yes.

that's why they have a thing called economic ministers. aristide creates a social agenda supported by the ppl and the economic minister creates fiscal policy to support it.


growing up in western nations, we forget what true democracy is.

 

well if your policies support the elites of your country, what else can we call them. show me in anyway, preval or obama's policies have benefitted a single working class person.

aristide was thrown out by hatian elites and the us for raising the minimum wage......and you say he doesn't know economics.

in what way does preval show he is better than aristide.

 

China is the example of an undeveloped country coming soon to be a super power. Yes, they have other methods just like the usa but free trade has worked for them along with other things.

I agree. That's why I stopped caring for it however, the person I orginally replied to made a deal about it. I would also stress the USA'S interference in haitian affair.

I would like some evidence on this because there are plenty of people who can make comments like this about OBama as well.

If aristide was any good, he would not have had a coup. You have to know how to lead so you don't get pushed out like that.

How can you forget something you never had? Both Haiti and the U.S.A are republics. Both use a representative democracy. I have never been in a country that just used full out democracy. I don't even think one exists. You would end up having a popularity contest of people who don't have the experience for the job.

 

Do you know how many people work for the car companies that are in the working class that Obama saved? or What actually went down in the Health care bill? or how he increased the tax return money for the working class?


He has done quite a bit but gets no respect from people who have done even less for the working class.



Who are these elites? name them? that's all people do. such and such is working for the elites. It is easy to criticize and far less easy to do.

It had to do more than raising minimum wage. You do not worry about minimum wage but inflation. That is not economics. If you raise minimum wage and inflation grows, you are stuck at the same spot. I don't know if by minimum wage he means for public jobs or both public and private. Secondly, what good is minimum wage if you don't have any jobs? The economy was lousy under his in comparison to Preval.

 

but china is becoming a giant sweatshop itself. under mao they were developing and becoming self-sufficient because their policies were created for and by the ppl. since the 70's li xiaoping has retarded their development, there country while big is just a satelite of the us.....that's why they are raiding africa blind......to me the only progress came from the foundations of mao,that's why his poster is everywhere......their unwillingness to listen to the ppl is why there is so many crackdowns today.

if you look at obama's policies, they are geared for the rich, not one thing he's done has helped the structural problems. i like obama and this is not a knock against him. tbh its a system w/him or without that supports the elites. tome if preval wasn't a puppet he would have been taken care of......look at zelaya in honduras, all the coups in latin america, the shah in iran,etc ,, when america dislikes someone he is removed.

 

Well that was my example of free trade working and not my example of free trade being heaven on earth and saving everyone. Even in the usa, we have sex slave shops. I can't stop bad behavior through free trade.
Even with the best tool, there will always be an imperfection. The user.

Concerning Obama
I have already pointed out what he has done for the working middle class which was what I believed was asked. You can't expect for someone to fix things that have been happening decades in four years.

 

obama- extend bush tax cuts, bailout banks, extend war on terror to yemen and libya, half ass hc reform which only benefits insurance companies.

the auto companies lost their money and the workers' pensions through wid speculation in the market. the workers' jobs were saved at the expense of lower wages and lower benefits, which those companies were pushing for anyway, is deemed as a success. not to mention there has been no new regulation to stop any of this repeating itself. not to mention there were better alternatives.

elites in the us- banks,lobbyists, neoliberal economists,the clintons, etc.
haiti-the landowners, foreign multi-nationals, etc.

minimum wage has nothing to do with unemployment, except it can help end it. the strength of any economy is based on their national wealth. national wealth is the assets owned by their citizens minus liabilties. the problems of the us and haiti is we have gone from an idustrial economy which invests in real goods and services into one of finacial speculation. speculation is the proverbial good money chasing bad. money usually used to invest in companies, was in turn invested in existing assets like housing and resources, in a real sense bidding them up. the effect was taking money out of the real economy and making assets like factories to expensive to buy. this hurts demand(the engine of an economy) in that money is now diverted was buying products and is now spent on debt service to pay the new higher costs of assets. with less demand, equals to less need for new products, equals less need for new employees, equals higher unemployment and it turn leads to lower wages due to employees having to take less just to keep their existing job.

how this relates to haiti is that, without the tradition of capitol controls and the us dollar as the reserve curreny, us capitol reserves(hot money) is buying up assets and charging exubriant fees beyond operating costs(wages, capitol investment) and causing a proverbial tollbooth economy. most countries benefit from keeping their asst and charging user fees and using the money to reinvest in infrastructure, thus creating jobs and stimulus to expand the economy by the newly added demand. that's why the new deal worked and why the part of the obama deal(my term) that were shovel ready projects did as well. the part that didn't, the tax cuts didn't, for the above reasons mentioned.

preval might have improved the economy marginally, but just like the bush boom years, but eventually the econic fundamentals kick in.

 

but that's my point, it's not working. with a billion ppl they do have potential, but that potential isn't being realized. what they need is national development....free trade is the polar opposite, you building your industries to meet the needs of foreigners, instead of building it for your own citizenry and using trade as an enhancement to your existing national plan. it's counterproductive. that's the difference between free trade and fair trade.

in regards to obama, i didn't expect him to solve all of the problems, but if his "successes" may the rich richer, it's right to question them.

 

oy ok here we go. We will take this piece by piece.

Tax cuts. The president of the United States of america does not have the power to pass bills. Obama did not extend the bush tax cuts. Congress did so blame it on them. Too often is the president blamed for things that he has no power over.

Bailout banks. It would be a nightmare if we had let those banks fail. Where would companies get their loans? Where would the working class get a loan to buy a house? This is not how you run an economy by letting your banks fail.

extended war to libya and yemen. Lets see where did the christmas bomber get his training from? oh yes Yemen. In libya, the UN wanted to go there because Gaddafi is bombing his people. We helped out because we thought it to be a bad thing to bomb and kill innocent people. so yea we went there! The cost is the problem so that I understand but saving people from Gaddafi bombing his people. nope

Half ass HC reform. Did you prefer the full ass one we had? How much work did you do to pass your bill again? Congress is incredibly difficult to deal with. but feel free to make the other half of the Health care bill. I'll be happy to get my congress man to vote on it. oh and only benefits helath care companies again no respect. There was a little girl that died after the health care company refused to pay for it(Health care companies can't do that now). Parents can now keep their children on their insurance til 25 which I didn't have before the bill. You aren't pay attention to law. There are plenty of good things on there.

again would you like to have the working class lose their jobs at the car companies? This would increase unemployment and cost the government more money. A job is better than no job.
What were the better alternatives?

so If I own a bank or become a lobbyist like say the lobbyist for public education or the lobbyist for organizations that help the poor people or I go to school to be an economist that believes in neoliberalism though I make less than 60000 thousand a year, I'm an elite. I hardly would call the clintons elite either.

Oh and haiti landowners! wait until I tell my mom. My mom owned land in haiti and makes less than 30000 dollars a year but she is elite. Wait until I tell her this so that she can laugh at that.

Ok, this is a big one. First of all minimum wage does not end it. Getting a job does. Why would you as an employer hire someone if you have to pay them more because the minimum wage went up. Most employers will not do it because it will be more costly. That is why you lower inflation. This way it is less costly to hire people and less costly for people to live in that country. Basically the cost of living goes down. While correct that we have moved from industrial, we moved to information and services and not financial speculation. There is a division between industrial and information and services. Lastly, the explanation of financial speculation is difficult to grasp as I think you have merged things that were already being done for quite a long time. Most people use their money to purchase their homes on the bet that it will go up. Most people in the usa don't buy stocks in comparison to houses. This happened long before any one alive now was around. The factories had no trouble then. The problem is not this but the employee. You have to pay pensions and health insurance and all of that good stuff for the employee. Property will eventually increase in profit so there is no reason to not buy it. However, employees will not and will cost you over the long run. That's why companies move to places where benefits for workers are not there and inflation is low. They don't have to pay more. It also ends up making the products they sell cheaper for others to buy.

The new deal can not be determined to have worked or not. We went to war and came out of it better than any one and then we made heavily bias contracts to make money from it. Obama is no where near the situation of FDR. We have two young star countries coming out of it. Brazil is doing very well. Europe is back on track and we have people thinking it is same old same old in the world running our country with the biggest debt ever and 2 wars on top of that. Haiti is also in a different time than that new deal. You often can not use the same ideology for a different time and situation. There is just so much problems over there. It would smart to rebuild the infrastucture over there but I promise they will not raise minimum wage because then it becomes more expensive. They will more than likely lower inflation some how. That should be on the mind of the next Haitian president.

 

Pointing to how humanity does evil things like create a sweatshop is not proof that free trade does not work. It is proof that humanity can be evil. I can find something wrong with any country or idea. Democracy can vote in an evil mad man. Communism can have lazy people not doing their share. I can blame it on the idea or I can blame it on what is really the problem. the user( evil mad man, the lazy people).

Like I said even the best of tools has at least one imperfection. The user. It's not the tools(free trade) fault that some of the Chinese are corrupt.

Free trade works fine but the chinese people that are corrupt and not putting everyone first is the huge issue there.

about obama
One word compromise. You can't win all the battles in a marriage let alone in the congress where you have no power. You will end up in a stale mate where your side gets no benefits and theirs keeps getting good benefits.
I mean before Obama's attempt at health care. You could need a new liver. If the health insurance company thought it was too expensive, they would reject the operation and you would die. Now they can't do that. That is much better than what we had. That was his point after passing it. I got you all of this and you still are complaining. If I did it your way, you would have got nothing because no one would have voted for it. We saw this happen when hillary tried it.

 

LET'S TRY THIS AGAIN-
he advocated and supported the extension of the bush tax cuts. you act like presidents don't set the agenda and don't have the most influence in washington. not to mention his creation of a fiscal defecit commission....

hc bill-he made secret deals with the insurance companies and took both single payer and a public option off the table. after criticising hillary for her mandate, he puts one in and had no way to control over the top premiums. so we have system where everyone is trapped in a program of higher costs for less service. a smashing success!


auto bailout- so no regulation,before, no regulation now. what jobs? we have a bubble economy with economic overhead because of the carrier charges of speculation.......decreasing real wages lead to stagnation......nothing obama has done has addressed the structural problems.


bank bailouts-these banks are insolvent.....by bailing them out, you allowed them to keep debts they would have had to write down(that's why they are not renegogiating foreclosed homes).


new deal- these are similar situations and hence you need similar solutions-
bank insolvency- bank holiday and a writedown of debts
hc-universal care
failing infrastructure- government works with a living wage-$20/hr.


to me haiti has to follow the same path as any developing country-
this is an article i think you should read-
http://henryckliu.com/page237.html