Article: Notion of race should change

This is an article by Joseph Phillips

Noble goal, IMO, but I'm not sure it is realistic

Click here to read

 

OOOOOkay...



I think this speaks for itself, meaning that those who are or aren't against this, are or aren't against it for OBVIOUS reasons, and the discussions held here in these forums should give you a pretty good idea about it.

 

Well, at least there are more and more discussions about the sense and nonsense of racial categories - which is definitely a start in the right direction. And most countries already got rid of racial categories - it's just a matter of time until other countries which still hold on to racial concepts (like the US) do the same.

I found this article about a discussion of social scientists and geneticists very interesting:

Taking Off the Color Blinders
Geneticists and Historians Grapple With the Gray Areas of Race
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A21995-2004Sep14.html

Excerpts from the article:

 

Again, I think it is noble to try to take down barriers, but I am mixed/ somewhat undecided on the "race doesn't exist" question.

On the one hand, certainly the way it is defined here in the US is way too broad (According to current definition Mariah Carey and Alek Wek are the same "race") but on the other hand it seems that there are some coorelations that may indeed be useful when you break it down to smaller extended family levels. When it is looked at that way, things become a little more clear especially when talking about medical history and genetic tendencies.

Of all the definitions, I find this guy's to be the one I personally agree with most:

Read the entire article by clicking here

 

To me it is kind of stupid to say there is no such thing as race (differences), when they are physically evident

 

Oh yes? Is that so?

What about Mostafa Hefny, classified as "white"?



Or this "black" man, the blonde, bue eyed Walter White?





Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid?

 

Well, that leaves us either with some billion racial categories which is nonesense in my eyes, or - since we all came from the same "family" tree - with only one, namely the African. Works for me.

 

I bet you think you really said something.

 

There are visible physical differences between "races". But how much difference is this biologically? The differences are not great enough to fit the biological notion of race. There are ways of differentiating the human population that are way better than using the traditional notion of race. For instance, blood type would be a far better way. The biological differences between those who have blood types O, B, A, and AB are far greater than those between European, African, Asian, (native) American, etc. Even that is not sufficient to divide the human species into races. There are other physical differences that count for more than those that cause the visible racial differences. In fact, there is far more variation within members of a race than there are between the races of mankind.

The most surprising thing about human biological differences is that humans are remarkably genetically homogenous. There are 6.5 billion people on this planet today. When looking at the genetic variation of Chimps, there are more genetic variations between a "tribe" of 50 Chimps than there are in the 6.5 billion people living on this planet.

The notion of race is a modern invention. There was no such racial sentiment between the races in classical and medieval periods. There was prejudice and bigotry, but it was tired to politics, class, nationality, and religion rather than race.

The truth is because of slavery, imperialism, apartheid, and pseudo-science lasting from the 18th century to the mid 20th century, we place far greater meaning to visible physical differences between Europeans, Africans, and Asians than is warranted. So because of this, we have this notion that black people should love black people and white people should love white people more than they like each other. We tend to treat racial differences as tantamount to the differences between the various species of dogs, or even between cats and dogs. So if a black woman is just not physically attracted to black men, and mostly attracted to white men, then there is a notion that there is something wrong with her. But, as Tuckerreed states, no one thinks it is odd if a black women is exclusively attracted to black men. Modern science shows that being exclusively attracted to whites or blacks is not different from being exclusively attracted to people with blond or brunette hair, who have skinny legs or thick juicy thighs. Of course, if the question is exclusivity, then we must ask why some men are exclusively attracted to blondes or brunettes.

I agree that we must discard the notion of race. By that, I don't mean just doing away with racial categories on the census. What we need to do is comprehensively remove the idea of race from our consciousness. I'm not advocating color-blindedness. What I am saying is that we need to discard the notion that visible racial differences count for really anything. As long as we continue to hold on to our antiquated views, there will be racial hatred and violence. It is time to move away from that. We need to move on. It is far better to fuck until we are all the same color than to continue with this racial nonsense. Many people believe this is impossible, but keep in mind that hatred between the English and French was extreme for a while. The French used to receive worse treatment in England than Jim Crowed blacks did in Dixieland. But today, there is no such animosity. There was not this level of racial animosity in classical or medieval civilization. Sure, they noticed skin color differences, but didn't ascribe value to those differences. Today, Koreans receive heavy racism from the Japanese even though they don't look very different from each other. The Japanese place far more value on perceived differences between the Japanese and Koreans than otherwise warrants.

We need to do away with the outdated notion of race, and I am confident that it will happen. 100 years from now, people will come to believe that the notion of different biological races is one of the worst and most destructive ideas in human history.

 

Madscientist, are you an ecologist/anthropologist? Just curious.

 

No. I merely read a lot.

 

Mad Scientist:

Not being confrontational (as I said, I am mixed on the notion) but don't you think that the groups of people living on different continents and environments have caused them to evolve to those differing climates? For example, not only do Kenyans dominate long distance running, but a single tribe in Kenya, the Kalenjin, win about 3 of every 8 medals awarded in world-class distance running.

Humanity is so diverse, it is amazing. One of the more interesting groups are the various groups of "pygmies" (average man = 4' 10" tall) When I see these things, I see clear differences. Some of these pygmy tribes are so withdrawn from the rest of the world that they are not immune to many of the diseases that we are immune to. In other words, if we landed amongst them, we would probably kill them with our germs.

I think that much of this difference comes from our environments. These differences, as they run in families can be called a "race"

Either way, I agree that the way race is defined here in America is archaic.

There is a group of whites and other that are working toward some of the same things that you mentioned above. They have "Erase Racism Carnivals" every month

You can read more information here

http://blogcarnival.com/bc/cprof_303.html

 

Why should you want to be a sister?

Trust me in this USA of which we live a woman of the Caucasian ethnic group will never be accepted into the sisterhood. Be glad for who you are. You do not have to struggle daily with rejection because of your skin shade or your facial features. (unless your community in which you live is a reverse dis thing) I love African descended men always have. I was married & had a wonderful life with him, gave him 4 children. All of which favor his skin tone. Which is wonderful to me. I am grateful for my unbiased upbringing. Not a norm for sure. In order to teach your daughter you must let her see that you are comfortable with who you are as the person you are inside that you are happy to be her mother. She will grow up happy and mentally healthy to have a positive mother as her role model. The best to you!

 

I don't understand why she'd want to be a sister
don't get me wrong, am not criticising, but surely one of the 'requirements' is to have a black bloodline
ok i know we all come from Africa, but i mean a predominant black bloodline.

one of the many things i admire about the black community is there pride in their race
white people don't have it. you never here - 'i'm a strong white woman', which is a pity, cos i think it is beliefs like these that women voice helps unite them in a common goal. which is why there is a lack of community amongst whites, but is stronger amongst blacks.

 

i agree with you.....i hope no one is offended by this.....but i feel this way....it almost feels as though we aren't allowed to have a strong white community because then we are considered racist....because of our history i suppose but i find it unfair....i wish we had a stronger sense of community... :cry:

 

I don't see why, really. Being white doesn't make me feel close to white people or have any sense of community at all, why should we? There are 82641982460152351 white people in the world who are so diverse from one another, I see no connection between me and them just because of our skin colour, nor do I think there should be one based on race, and I think actually this is kinda racist if anything. I feel a "sense of community" about my country, or I could feel related to people who had similar life experiences with me, but feel related to white people because we're white? That assumes taking some pride in being white over being another race (and isn't that what is actually racist??)

stronger sense of community based on what? that we're all white? :shock:

if we would be discriminated we should stick together and fight against that (maybe thats why black people have that sense of community), but other then when its about an issue that needs to be solved, I dont see the reasoning behind having a sense of community because you're white or black or whatever. Pride in our race? Thats silly. People of value come in all colours. Be proud you are part of the human race.

 

I agree Seychelles. It seems that at some point when people come together on 'race' that at some point some people are going to start claiming that "we are better than them". Even when it is Hutus and Tutsis or Bosnians and Serbs or Indians and Pakistanis it always seems to go way too far. So perhaps that is a door that should not be opened

 

I disagree with girlie and alessandra also. Why? Because they're just wrong. If they weren't, then there would be NO racist site, KKK, Aryan Union, Skinheads, or whatever else for that matter.

 

I, too, disagree with them. IMO (and I am a black male, for those who are unaware), the notion of blacks having pride in their race, and of dreaming of a "strong black community" only shows me that we like to stick to archaic notions of race and ethnicity, and that we are likely to repeat bad behavior.

When talking about a strong racial community or racial pride, let us not forget what it came from, and who invented it, and why. Remember that all of this was invented by powerful whites centuries ago to justify both slavery and the rigid class structure upon which society was based. Building a strong white community is also a way to generate patriotic sentiment to a population without a history beyond Europe. We can see the results of this globally. The genocide of native Americans, native Australians, and Africans. The imperialism against Latin America, Asia, and Africa. The Nazi Holocaust, lynchings, racial massacres, etc. Nothing good has ever come out of building a strong community and sense of pride based upon race. The only things that resulted were hatred, genocide, war, rape, murder, plunder, pillage, etc.

This makes me suspect of seeing blacks embrace racial pride. One thing that I've disliked was a trend towards cultural fascism of many pro-black people. More harms of this sentiment is that people tend to define what is black, and what is not black. In this type of atmosphere, you have to "act black" to be accepted into the community. If you didn't act that way, you were shunned by the community for acting white. And the boundaries for black behavior are narrow. Why is it "unblack" to ski, or to sky dive? Why is it unblack to like country music (no, I don't like it, but still!)? This causes too many blacks to severely narrow their horizons in the world. Why is it unblack to be attracted to someone of a different "race"? Where are the black game developers? Why don't we have more black scientists and engineers? One reason African/Caribbean immigrants succeed is that they don't carry the mentality that many blacks here possess.

And black identity is troubling for another reason. Consider this: Why did blacks develop an identity in the first place? The reason for this is that whites already had a cultural identity. There was strong and widespread white pride among whites, and yearnings for a strong white community. This necessitated that blacks did the same for survival, and to belong to a society. As this happened, there was an attack on white identity. So today, it is un PC for someone to declare that they have pride in their white race, and yearn for a strong white community. Just as white pride and identity forced blacks to develop their own, black pride and identity will eventually cause whites to revive whiteness. Blackness cannot exist without whiteness to compare itself to. If whites are smart, hard working, and beautiful, then blacks must be the opposite. Either blacks abandon their identity, or whites will revive their own. And I doubt that many would like to see a renewed white pride/identity movement. Also, racial/ethic identity and pride automatically means that those of a different racial or ethnic group will be excluded from membership. Sisterhood is good, and so is brotherhood. But why limit it to those who share the same "race"? Why not extend it to all?

Racial identity and pride has contributed nothing good in society. It would make much more sense to define yourself according to your interests. Do you like science fiction? Do you like soap operas, rock, rap? Are you a jock or a geek? This makes much more sense to me.

 

You make excellent points madscientist