Black Man's Burden...

Greetings all,
I hope I'm not posting too often and starting too many subjects... I don't want to overstay my welcome. It's just that I'm so happy to see a forum of this nature and I'm compelled to induce dialog.

Black men, as a man that appreciates and prefers the beauty of white women I've come to find that at times it can be a burden. A burden because I was raised to be a "proud" black man. When I was younger I lived, slept and ate "black." Black was more than a description, it became a lifestyle. Then, I developed an interest in white women and all of a sudden all my blackness was no longer important. I no longer felt a need to be militant in my blackness. Don't get me wrong, I'm still very proud of my heritage and the advancements that my people have contributed to society; however, I no longer feel a need to scream it from the mountain top. I still recognize the occasional act or gesture of racism but it doesn't bother me anymore. I wonder if I have somehow became more than just a black man. I hope I have. To be honest being so damn black was quite tiresome. There was a time that I blamed everything on my race. I no longer took responsibility for my actions because there was always some societal racist causing my feelings of repression and oppression. Well, now I realize that it may very well be my attitude of entitlement that cite the criticism that some have towards me. It maybe my swagger that causes some people to fear me.

I believe that by opening myself to love women of other races, I have freed myself from being a victim of my own race. I don't consider myself less black (neither does the mirror for that matter) but I do feel less of a need to prove it. The burden I speak of in my opening is that the black men and women who have not reached my level of enlightenment or delightenment accuse me of turning my back on my race.

I've been called lost, a fake black man, and many other colorful euphemism of a black man that is not in touch with his so-called "blackness."

Have any of you brothers experienced this or am I alone? I hope I don't offend anyone with my observations, but I will remind the reader that these are my own personal experiences. I'm still a black man and I very proud. Please don't confuse my comments as self hate or self degradation. I'm just a man first... I wonder if I have white women to thank for it.

 

Marrying women from a different race does not free you from "being a victim of your own race." There are plenty of Black men who love White women that hate White men. Likewise there are plenty of White women who love Black men that hate Black women. That belief you have is a false security not only in that particular instance but every other aspect of life.

Think about all of the slave masters that laid up with Black women. After having sex with them and sending them on their way, they went right back to whipping and beating their male counterparts.

 

I don't believe that sex or marriage have anything to do with self-awareness. My contention is that loving a ww has or more importantly, my willingness to love a ww has made being a black man a secondary issue. I don't hate anyone nor do I compare myself to a slave masters. Sex with slaves rarely had anything to do with love. Sex with slaves were based on opportunity. The fact that these men loathe black people in general but would still have sex with slave women only lends to a man's desire to engage in sexual intercourse. It's the reason that many slaves were caught having sex with animals.

Thank you for your opinion; I realized that a post such as this one would leave me open to scrutiny. I hope I've made my point clearer.

 

Yes, that and those same feelings against your own race too ...

 

Some of those feelings of being driven to identify with a group has to do with youth. When we are young we have a drive to identify with a group as we seek our own identities. This might be a fraternity, club, football team, goth groups, gang, preppies, potheads, artsy fartsy, poet, rock and roll group etc... As a young black man, I suppose identifying with a group of which you quite obviously are a part (recognized by everyone) would seem natural and healthy. For white men identifying with "white" groups is not as these groups are most likely racist.

After you mature and find your own individuality and security within yourself, identifying as part of a group or club is not always as interesting. You are a black man not "A BLACK MAN". Being black is part of who you are not "what you are".

 

Very well put Daphne, I still contend that an open mind opens the mind.

Kinfolk, there were many documented cases of male slaves resorting to bestiality as a means for release. Not only in American fiction, the Color Purple by Alice Walker, but also the collections of slave diarist like Susan Smith. I would never make false claims or pass bogus or erroneous information.

 

Your point wasn't very clear on the 'slaves caught having sex with animals' part. I will fiercely dispute that.[/quote]

Kinfolk, there were many documented cases of male slaves resorting to bestiality as a means for release. Not only in American fiction, the Color Purple by Alice Walker, but also the collections of slave diarist like Susan Smith. I would never make false claims or pass bogus or erroneous information.[/quote]

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So when a young Black man says I just 'knocked boots'(had sex) with some "Filly' or 'Thoroughbred', it may not just be urban slang, he may be acting on some latent urge acquired from slavery & may really be talking about a horse ,Tmass? :roll:

I am glad you pointed out that this absurdness you alluded to is"American Fiction" by invoking the name of that noted "Black Man Basher" ,Walker.

I have read hundreds of slave narratives(in their own words) & have never heard of such a thing. Since most Slaves couldn't write I doubt it is they who 'documented' this as opposed to those Whites who wanted to strip these people of as much humanity as they could to justify slavery.


I have heard some here allude to your 'deepness' ,but as usual people always look 'too' deep when it come to the most basic of human emotions (Love & Lust) & they always seem to see things that really aren't there. Just as people write volumes of books,articles,etc... trying to explain the "Whys'" of IR love & come up with these wild & inaccurate observations about IR couples, but when you ask those involved in those relations(interracial) the simple answer is 'it's my preference' & 'it's just what I'm attracted to'. In other words Love & Lust aren't as 'complicated' & 'deep' as some people would have us believe & you seem to try to make it out to be.

Now maybe you (& others) like to hear yourself 'wax poetically' about & 'over 'analyze human relationships ,but I hardly see what the further
attempt to dehumanize slaves has to do with it.

 

I'll respond to the question of the topic with THIS:



http://www.whitewomenblackmen.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3559&start=0

 

As long as some blacks DO NOT ALLOW others to love and appreciate other races as well, besides their own, that making one a traitor, a fake and a lost one, then it is really the blacks who are responsible for the segregation (or prolonging it), hating and dispising attitudes that racism gets born from, between whites and blacks, and in that case why do they complain about what happens to them and wanna be treated well, fairly and appreciated by whites just as they would appreciate a white person, since if a white would do that, he would be a traitor, a fake and a lost white man, since a black man is called THAT. If you wanna end tensions between whites and blacks that's definitely the opposite attitude.

I've never heard so much stupidity in my life.

A black cannot make one step outside of his race and look beyond it to expand his horizons and sphere of interests and see that a black man is a man first and foremost, and only after he is a white, black, or asian man, without it being the WRONG move. This takes my mind to being kept in a mental prison, it's like you're imprisoned to care and like only about your race.

So much for people of all races mixing, learning about each other, accepting and respecting each other and coming one day to see the day when they will live peacefully no stress no drama with each other with this attitude ! I'd guess Miss Universe, Miss USA and all the other Misses would kick those people asses as they want PEACE on Earth :lol:

As for me, before having a black boyfriend, blacks were sooooo far from me like in another Universe of space and time, knew they exist but that's pretty much all, but since then, I now know everything about their past history and how it is now in present times, don't know enough about culture and food yet, and that can only be a positive thing, so if that's where you're coming from with your thread, opening yourself to more than your own race, I understand it completely, and honestly find it a positive thing.

 

Kinfolk, I address you personally in this post because you chose to address me personally, rather than answer the question I originally asked. There are hundreds of documents that mention or allude to bestiality performed by male slaves. You are a college graduate and appear to be well read and versed, I challenge you to research the following authors and find exactly the narratives that I refer to:

Gary B. Nash "Race and Revolution"
Toni Morrison "Beloved"
Leon Litwack "Been in the Storm So Long"

Frederick Douglass, Harriet Jacobs, and Kwame Anthony Appiah "Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, an American Slave & Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl"

All of these books mention these sex acts. Your mocking of American fiction and Alice Walker (one of the most prolific writers in American history) is both absurd and irresponsible. As any great writer or reader for that matter knows, all fiction is factually based. The mind can only create so much without a factual blueprint.

The idea that most slaves couldn't write or read is absurd. Many slaves who were brought to the New World, could both write and read in several languages. Diaries, manifestos and essays are constantly being uncovered by these so called ignorant Negroes. Most of what we know about the life of slaves derive from the aforementioned writings. The idea that the "white man" recreated our history in our own language and in our own pen to justify slavery is preposterous. It also lends no merit to the educated men and women who taught other slaves to read, write and perform basic arithmetic. I think you have been hoodwinked to the idea that all or even most slaves were ignorant. In your spare time read "Proslavery: A History of the Defense of Slavery in America" by Larry Tise. (It's not what you think.) I feel that it will enlighten you.

The problem I have with this quote is your personal attack on my thoughts and ideas. You also describe love and lust as basic human emotions. I whole heartily disagree. I joined this site to explore the questions that is often proposed to and pondered by men and women involved in inter-racial relationships. The question of course being, "Why?" Contemplating the human condition is healthy and very necessary. Some of the most incredible thinkers in history, Socrates, Plato, Angelou, Hill etc. all broke ground with the basic question "why?". The question is asked not necessarily in attempt to gain a response but to illicit the thinking process itself. Depth is a state of mind and I relish in the idea that others allude to my deepness. It means I'm thinking. It means I'm not afraid to think outside of the box and explore human experiences.
Even you yourself attempted to answer the question why date inter-racially. (I included your quote below.) You even allude to the fact that your desire to date outside your race is more than a physical attraction, using your words, "It must be something deeper."
Understanding our actions and why we love and why we love who we love only lend to better understanding who we are and the purpose of our lives.

I'm not sure what 'wax poetically' means but I think I addressed the necessity to 'over analyze human relationships.' As far as dehumanizing slaves is concerned, I never once said that I celebrated the idea of slaves performing acts of bestiality. I only mentioned that it happened and attempted to explain the reason based on what I've read. This whole, "Hate Whitey" mentality that so many black men encompass is the reason for my original post. I've learned to love because I've learned to love people who don't look like me. My observation was merely an attempt to start dialog between the members of this board and illicit friendly debate. I won't lie, I felt that your response was a tad personal but I rarely resort to personal attacks or retorts.

Slaves were dehumanized the day they were sold as property. This, as we all know, happened well before the first European ship hit African shores. The activities that the slaves resorted to based on their lifestyles and outside influences were necessary at the time. I think you are taking one particular comment and blowing it's meaning and the motivation behind it way out of proportion.

If you are still reading, all I can say is that I enjoy a good debate. I believe that when two or more people discuss and challenge each other's ideas only learning and understanding can result. I rarely argue because I don't see the point. If you have actual or factual proof that contradict my words, by all means bring them forth. I am a big man that is willing and ready to admit when I am wrong. However, if your responses to my questions or my post will be laden with insult or unnecessary rhetoric I respectfully asked that you do not reply or engage in any communication with me.

Respectfully submitted...
TMASS

 

Seychelles,
That's exactly what I meant. The willingness to explore outside of your comfort zone opens you to new experiences. Now that you have an appreciation for a race that was "sooooo far from" you, you can better understand the human condition and that we are all just people- first.

 

Let me get this right because I don't think I get it. You found a way to free yourself from your race like you put it by loving women of other races? You couldn't have looked within and saved yourself on your own by correcting the mentality you had by blaming everything that went wrong on your actions rather than on your race? Maybe it's me but could you elaborate on how this has happened?
And maybe your swagger causes people to fear you? Wow, I bet the farm if you took a survey most whites would say it's your skin color and not the swagger and if you're big and tall, you're what America fears in general: ABBM (A big, black man.) It's great that you come to think of yourself as a man first but don't be completely ignorant to the fact that all's not good and well in America --you may be let down and disappointed. You have to understand that no matter how much you think of yourself as a man first, there are still many people stuck on race and will look at you as a black man only, your race as well as gender are included and they will make assumptions based on stereotypes they know of black men on that fact alone.

 

Sounds like you saw Something New.

 

Tmass,

many points in your post to this start thread really hit home.

I don't want to spend every waking minute or much of my life thinking about my "blackness" or how much better my life would be if I was whiter. I have many more interesting aspects of myself, and a million and one better things that will make better use of my time and energy.

I can handle racism gracefully or appropriately, if the need arises as I have in the past. But I'm not going to let it control my whole life, ruin all of my days, crush my dreams, stunt my personal growth or potential, or deny me certain privileges that I've always wanted.

I'll even go further by saying that sometimes it's our response to racism, whether it's real or not, that enslaves us more than the racism itself, doubling our burden. We just simply doing the racists' work for them, even when they're not around, allowing them to rent space in our heads for free, when they should be paying for it big time. Racists want attention and evidence to justify their own stupidity, so why feed into it?

Yes, I know that it still exists, some forms of it are quite dangerous and isn't likely to completely disappear anytime soon. But, sometimes we give racism more "credit" for our own individual setbacks and disappointments than it deserves.

It's not just you. I believe that black people who can relate to others not on the basis of their colour and without compromising their identity are far more comfortable in their "blackness" than those who have to be among other black people to feel "black" or allow others to define it for them. I don't stop being "black" just because the people around me aren't.

 

this post of yours is as wise and well thought as you've used us by now Genuine.

 

When I read about this nonesense people throw your way, then the words from neo-nazi leader David Lane (the one who also coined the famous neo-nazi 14-words slogan: "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.") come to my mind, who said:

Considering how vehemently these people claim that they dispise eachother, it's quite amazing how much they think alike and how they follow the very same path, isn't it?

I'm just glad that the number of enlightened people who don't listen to this kind of nonesense anymore is steadily rising.

 

I agree with Seychelles about Genuine's post, that's why I linked that previous thread to this one on the first page.

Uh huh. A LOT of white supremacists, Aryan Goons, Latino Gangs, Arab Pirates, and Asian Separatists boast about their rabid hatred for black people (particularly black men) but could easily be outed as hardcore hypocrites for having private meetings like lunches, conferences, and overall SEXUAL encounters with black people, women and MEN...



and, yet, these people ALWAYS unite for the VERY SAME specific cause: to *cough* preserve the 'purity and unity of their race' by (get ready for this one, take a deep breath) working TOGETHER TO DESTROY ONE ANOTHER, even if it means having Interracial sex!

:roll: :roll: :roll:

 

That is very true about the meetings. There have been many instances of meetings between white and black supremacist groups. It was known that the Garveyites and the Klan met with each other. In the 1970s, the NOI met with the Klan in peace.

And just in the 1990s, black supremacists invited some famous white supremacist to speak at a rally to much applause from the all-black audience. And white supremacists invited some famous black supremacist to a meeting, and he received much applause. The people they dislike are those who have different values. They have much respect for those with similar values, but who belong to a different racial group.

Other than white men slavemasters having sexual relations with black female slaves, I haven't heard about the interracial sex between black and white supremacists. Can you fill me in on that?

 

You're not gonna find much info on supremacists dating and having sex with people from other 'races' on the Internet in any news article, (at least not this century) but a lot of it is out there. They even come into dating websites like this one and create fake profiles, just like the webmaster had mentioned before, and it's not just THIS ONE either.