I hate ignorance and stupidity! I really do! I dont know if you are pretending to be this way or if this is truely who you are. "The Doll Test" has nothing to do with the south, and it isnt about black people teaching their kids these things. Its society teaching kids these things. Bad guys wear the black hat. Magazines with 99% of their content targeting whites with articles and pictures that have few, if any, faces of color. Television shows with no black leads or characters. Or (even worse) shows that only feature "sterotypical" black characters, such as janitors, drug dealers, and derelicts of society. There are alot of little things in society that says, "white is right." These "underadvantage kids" are the result of segregation and inequities in the public school system. As flygirl mentioned before, you need to sit down and read Brown vs. The Board of Education. It will teach you why segregation and "seperate but equal" doesnt work and resulted it these "underadvantaged kids." And then you want to widen the gap between the haves and have-nots but suggesting vouchers? Tell me...will you allow wealthy parents to also use vouchers, such a one california congressman suggested? Will they cover 100% of costs and be available to all parents of children who go to sub-par schools? If not, then they are useless. Or, you could simply improve the sub-par schools by making sure they have the same tools and money that "A-rated" schools have and then you wouldnt need vouchers. And for future reference, stop refering to your limited life experiences and observations of blacks, hispanics, and other people of color, and thinking that means that you have a respecable amount of knowledge of their history and social circumstances. Its insulting! Pick of a book or two, or just ask. But dont make blanket statements or assumptions, such as the kids from The Doll Test being the victims of parents who obsess about racism.
Whatever.... but it's people like you and Karma telling people like DEX that to be conservative it to hate himself. As if a black man has to think like all other black men and is not allowed to have a mind of his own. I've heard more statements from a few opinionated blacks on this board about black somehow being "ugly" than I have heard in my entire life. So maybe you do live in a different world than I do. I do not, and never have, considered black to be inferior in anyway, and I hate hearing black people refer to themselves as if all of white America somehow felt that way. Teach the children some high self esteem. Stop complaining about bygones, it's a new America we even have a black president. Stop pretending that what happened to you is still happening to black children all over America. As to your opinion of television, my kids grew up with the Cosby show, and the Jefferson's, and a number of other black sitcoms. In fact I have a son who can do a perfect imitation of Urkle. So that to is a very untrue and outdated statement.
Ive never said "to be conservative means you hate yourself." Those statements have been made, but they were in reference to black women (by idiots). Not black people as a whole. Spoken like a truely ignorant, white conservative. And before you lose your cool and spill your hot wings trying to respond, look up the real definition of "ignorant." You have no idea what you are you talking about because ive never made a reference to my childhood or how i grew up. Youre just making assumptions (again!) because of my stance on certain issues. :smt100
smh Are you fucking kidding me: Originally Posted by Tinkerbell Stop complaining about bygones, it's a new America we even have a black president. Stop pretending that what happened to you is still happening to black children all over America. I can't even believe the things that have been said here. I'm truly amazed that a woman who says she loves a black man can be so ignorant as to believe this. In regards to never hearing so many complaints about black people before coming to these boards...I believe you came to this forum to learn things. There are people on here who have all different perspectives and some are very honest about their experiences and you are getting a tiny glimpse into their reality. It's not the same for you...you don't hear it because it doesn't impact you. I can tell you that NOW, now that you are newly involved with a black man, now that there is a black/biracial (sorry don't know the situation there) grandchild...I bet you will come to notice comments and things that happen out there in every day life much more. Originally Posted by Tinkerbell As to your opinion of television, my kids grew up with the Cosby show, and the Jefferson's, and a number of other black sitcoms. In fact I have a son who can do a perfect imitation of Urkle. So that to is a very untrue and outdated statement. Oh HELL no. ....this is just really beyond frightening to me.
Hey - you know I stay out of the political stuff on here. But you know...sometimes I just have to say something. And yah - it's the mom in me. I'm the proud mom to white, and black children. We aren't going to get anywhere in this world if we can't even see our own damned racist thoughts and attitudes, that means EACH and EVERY one of us. Suddenly Obama is in office and no racism exists in the US. Get REAL! smt055 you know I got nothing but love for you Jells)
Stop complaining about bygones, it's a new America we even have a black president. Stop pretending that what happened to you is still happening to black children all over America. I have to admit, that is a little short-sighted. A black president does not just make all of the problems facing a black man, in today's America, simply go away. I wish it did tho. That would be sweet.
I'm going to take a stab at this, but I already think I'm going to hate myself in the morning. Can we all agree that there is some merit to the idea that things are better and still improving in the US for African-Americans? That can be a jump-off point from some common ground. From there we can assume that the fact that things are yet improving does indicate that the improvements are not fully realized. We can therefore agree that we still have some ground to gain, right? I realize we may disagree on exactly how much ground, but we definitely aren't yet in the end zone. From there, let us not disparage the individual and collective testimonies of a huge group of Americans who are (to this day) sharing the stories of experiences that prove (and would prove in a court of law, btw) that there are still many incidences of racism being perpetrated in our nation today. An analogy might be victims of childhood abuse who are under authority of adults and can only try to state what happened to them in hopes they are believed. Can we agree to believe those who say, "I have been harmed?" without judging their experiences based on our perceptions of what they must have been. At this point, can we now work together to find solutions to improve society in such a way as to prevent those stories from reoccurring to the next generation?
Well, I really don't lose my cool and spill my hot wings over being called ignorant, I already know I need an education about such things, I just dont see it as bad in reality as you all seem to portray it. I do hereby retract my statement about "you" and "your childhood" because I should not have said you, I should have said some people on this board. I did come here to learn and I learn a lot more by putting my views out there and getting responses. Thank you. Yes, I have been raised in a very rare area of the US evidently where this sort of thing does not exist, or maybe it is not as bad as some say in a good part of America, maybe these things are predominate in the South, I'm still learning. I can absolutely agree with you here, but I would like to state that many people are harmed for many reasons, poverty, substance abuse, and crime are the biggest culprits and hit all races. So the majority of it is not due to race in my opinion.
I didn't say that, I think it's a sign that things are not so bad now, not that they are magically gone.:-?
Tink - May I suggest that maybe it does exist in your little world, but maybe it's a matter of that you haven't experienced it. Maybe it's a matter of you not having your eyes open to it. I'm not in the South. I'm in California...very liberal here...that doesn't mean that things don't happen here...even in LA and SF. It's not your experience because you are a white woman. It's very possible that when your man comes home and you have spent a good amount of time with him out in the world you may find things to be a bit different. When that grandchild comes home dealing with being called names and not understanding..you may feel differently. And sorry the comparison of a blond blue eyed child to a brown haired brown eyed...simply not the same at all. I have yet to see anyone clutch their purse, or cross the street because someone with brown hair and brown eyes walks by. Because something has become more covert, does not mean that it does not exist. There are all sorts of subliminal and not so subliminal things that go on every day. I don't know...I would think that if one comes from a place of wanting to learn then they would ask and respect what the folks that have and do live it every day have to say rather than to argue it. I may have a unique grasp/perspective/compassion because of my life, but I would never claim that I know what it is to be a black person (especially a black man) in the US. See we have the priviledge of walking outside the door at any given moment and blending into white America...they do not.
If it is covert, and my black friends here in town have told me they do not experience it here, and I do not see it, why must I look for it here? I want to understand the thought process of others but that does not mean I should blindly agree with them.
I never said you should blindly agree with anyone. I said that I would think you would come in and ask questions and respect the answers rather than argue with them. That doesn't mean you even would be in agreement with them. Personally, I think it's a bit foolish for a white woman to attempt to persuade black men in what the experience would be for black people. Because something is covert does not mean it doesn't exist. Frankly, I'm really surprised that your black friends have not experienced any racism in their lives in your town. Maybe your town is the one place in the US that it truly does not exist. I'm a bit puzzled about this because I believe before you've talked about colorism that you've experienced around your husband's family and friends...was that only in regards to Mexicans or was there also issues regarding black people? Did you ever experience any issues in being married to a Mexican man in that area for 26 years? See me in my life, not being in that situation, I may not see it in the same way you would...because it was simply not part of my experience. It doesn't mean it doesn't exist...it means that I may not be aware. I'm saying that it simply may be that you are not aware because the experience is foreign to you...but that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone...even in your town.
The "colorism" you refer too, I have experience Mexican's saying that darker Mexican's are somehow more "ugly". I have not experienced white people doing it, so it is not racism, it's a social phenomenon that it is somehow acceptable to Mexican parents to tell their own children that they will not measure up, because they are not "pretty" enough, etc. Maybe my personal and family experience with this is why I get a bit defensive about it. Yes, when I was in Oregon I experienced some racism against Mexicans. And I heard racist comments against blacks. White families would blame the immigrants for moving into their neighborhoods and bringing the value of their homes down, or people singling them out to watch them for shoplifting, or people clutching their purse when they walked by. That is racism but I only saw it in the very rural and nearly all white areas. It's the type of thing that DH has shared about. I did not find it in the more Mexican neighborhoods. Whites there were more accepting and open. It was the Mexican's themselves who put low self esteem into their own children, and I had many a disagreement with in-laws and others who tried to tell my kids things like that that I would not tolerate.
