Re: Has hip hop done more harm to Black community than good? GREAT POINT! This arguement that everybody across the country is having is so stupid, because hip hop hasn't change in the eighties it hasn't changed in the nineties and it still hasn't changed 21st, it just evolved. You still got your Gangsta rap, Conscious rap, and Pop rap. Just look at the comparisons: N.W.A/BONE THUGS/G-UNIT THE FATBOYS - DIGITAL UNDERGROUND - LUDACRIS 2 LIVE CREW - SIR MIXXALOT - YING YANG TWINS Boo-dah Bliss - LA DREAM TEAM - MC HAMMER - SOULJA BOY, D4L, etc. Ice-T - 2pac - SNOOP DOGG - Notorious B.I.G. - Jay-Z - 50 Cent, Young Jeezy, Cam'ron, etc. Furious Five - Public Enemy - Tribe Called Quest - Common, Kanye, Lupe, etc. Lyric comparisons "... took that girl out on the floor She rocked me from the backside We did the butt til it made me sore Now, it's a physical thing, but not hard to do You just shake-a shake shake shake Shake-a shake shake Doin' the butt the whole night through, come on" - E.U. "DA BUTT" "...Do that Stuff that your mother call smut girl, lets get buck naked and fuck tonight" Ice - t "Lets get buck naked and fuck" "...Now since you got the body of the year, come and get the award Here's a hint, it's like a long chop sword. Wreck-n-Effects - Rump shaker "...Sittin' at home with my dick on hard So I got the black book for a freak to call 2 Live Crew - Me so horny "...Shake, shake, shake your money maker Like you were shaking it for some paper It took your momma 9 months to make ya Might as well shake what your momma gave ya You, you lookin good in them jeans" Ludacris - moneymaker "...She A Very Freaky Girl Dont Bring Her To Mamma First You Get Her Name Then You Get Her Number Then You Get Some Brain In The Front Seat Of The Hummer Then You Get Some Brain In The Front Seat Of The Hummer Gucci man - Freakygirl ..."You aint got to take your panties off, just move them to the side. 50 Cent - Amusement Park "...Pop quiz, how many topless, black foxes Did I have under my belt, like boxers Not to brag but, if it add up One, two, nigga that's mad nuts Kanye West - Wouldn't get far "...Still I gotta pause when I think about her in dem draws (Go) And a ooh baby she liked it raw and like rain when she came it poured Common - Go "...It's goin down tonight in L.A. Buckshot and uzis spray Microphone blowa The bitch checka The ho wrecka Ice-T - Ice M.F. T "...Ruthless! Never seen like a shadow in the dark except when I unload, see I'll get over the hesitation and hear the scream of the one who got the last penetration N.W.A - Straight outta Compton "...I'm civilized damage to a nobody And I'm carrying a gun if I'm rhyming at the party New York, Chicago, Detroit, LA I'll slay wherever ya play D.C. or Philly, or Baltimore I'm worrying the rich, invading the poor Perpetrating in your video, here's the real smoothing Country accents, who do you think you're foolin LL Cool J - Murdergram "...I kicks the flavor good, to represent the neighborhood where I come from, and that's the place of Brooklyn where the grimies are born and bred And bullets are like eyeballs, two to the head Big Daddy Kane - Brooklyn Style...Laid out "...I love finger fuckin you, all of a sudden I'm hearin thunder When you bust a nut, niggaz be duckin or takin numbers Love to watch you at a block party, beggin for drama While unleashin on the old timers, that's on my mama" 2PAC - Me & My girlfriend "...No need for that, just grab the fucking gat The first pocket that's fat the Tec is to his back Biggie - Gimme the loot "...You see me with a bodyguard that means police is watchin And I only use his waist to keep my glock in But when shit goes down you know who's doin the poppin And if you don't know, guess who's doin the droppin Jay-z - Streets is watchin "...See I'm down for that daytime action Have niggaz crawlin under cars when I start to cappin 50 Cent - Man Down "...Glass pots on the stove got the kitchen smellin funky Sold a million records but I still flip them blocks On the TV every day but I'm still pop them glocks Young Jeezy - J.E.E.Z.Y "...Cuz I ain't never been a sucka, been gangsta my whole life So a nigga disrespect me and it's on on sight T.I. - Watch what you say to me "...Everybody come equipped with bangas Throwing up our middle fangas And you know I don’t slip so I gotta keep 10 in the clip and 1 the chambers Better be walking with angels Ludacris - Im so Hood "...A child was born, with no state of mind Blind to the ways of mankind God is smiling on you but he's frownin too, Cause only god knows what you go through GrandMaster Flash & furious five - The message "...He was only seventeen, in a madman's dream, The cops shot the kid, I still hear him scream, This ain't funny so don't ya dare laugh, Just another case 'bout the wrong path, Straight 'n narrow or yo' soul gets cast Slick Rick - Children's Story "...For this drug deal,I'm the big wheel The dope I'm sellin',you don't smoke,you feel Out on the dance floor,on my world tour I'm sellin' dope in each and every record store I'm the king pin when the wax spins Crack or smack will take you to a sure end You don't need it,just throw that stuff away You wanna get high?Let the record play Ice-t - Im your pusher "...If I wasnt in the rap game Id probably have a key knee deep in the crack game Because the streets is a short stop Either youre slingin crack rock or you got a wicked jumpshot Shit, its hard being young from the slums Eatin five cent gums not knowin where your meals comin from Biggie - Things done Changed "...Some say the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice I say the darker the flesh then the deeper the roots I give a holler to my sisters on welfare Tupac cares, if don't nobody else care 2pac - keep ya head up "...I zone off thinkin' is there really heaven or hell So what happens to a changed man who dies in a cell I need no answers to these questions, cuz time will tell Got a date with destiny, she's more than a girl Don't much good come from me, but my music Is a gift given from God so I'ma use it 50 cent - God gave me style "...I had a dream I can buy my way to heaven When I awoke, I spent that on a necklace. I told God I'd be back in a second, Man It's so hard not to act reckless. To whom much is given much is tested. Get arrested, guess until, they get the message Kanye West - Can't tell me nothing "...I want to be as free as the spirits of those who left I'm talking Malcom, Coltrane, my man Yusef Through death through conception New breath and resurrection For moms, new steps in her direction Common - BE "...The irony of selling drugs is sort of like i'm using it Guess its two sides to what 'substance abuse' is JAY-Z - Fallin' "Little Erica is eleven years old She's steady trying to figure why the world is so cold So she pops pills to get rid of all the pain Plus she's having sex with a boy who's sixteen Ludacris - Runaway Love "...Moms smokin rocks same shit im sellin So who's wrong her or me She addicted to tha high im addicted to tha cash Almost put my hands on here when i caught her in my stash How could i do like dat lord knows im wrong Why would i do her like dat lord know she strong I kno its been hard but we made it baby 10 years clean so she still my lady i must be dreamin Young Jeezy - Dreamin' "...Excuse my french emotion in my passion But I wear my heart on my sleeve like it's the new fashion What are you asking, if I don't have the answer It's probably on the web, like I'm a damn tarantula But I know you don't understand, cause you thought lil wayne is weezy But weezy is dwayne Lil Wayne - You don't Get it "...Ghetto birds still shittin on us, government still quittin on us Lost a few homies and the grief still sittin on us So we got the names written on us, white folks still spittin on us And them bitch ass police k-9's teeth still grittin on us But we smoke, ashes still gettin on us Lil Wayne - CRY OUT "....If you were raised in New York by now you know That walking down the street is like going to a car show Diamond in the back,sun roof top Chillin' in the scene with the gangster lean oo,oo,oo Dougie Fresh - Crazy bout cars "....To the point, straight from the source Double Benzito and one Porsche! A girl in the passenger seat, me, I'm steering; To make a long story short, I was gearing Patent leather! Silk! Credit cards! A pocket full of money! The whole nine yards Fatboys - Just Loungin "...In L.A. we wearin Chucks not Ballies (that's right) Dressed in Locs and khaki suits and ride is what we do Flossin but have caution we collide with other crews 2PAC - Califorinia Love "...I'm poppin Magnums while Jigga bag somethin Watch is platinum, got jet lag from flights back and forth, pop corks of the best grapes Make the best CD's and the best tapes Don't forget the vinyl, take girls break spinals Biggie be Richie like Lionel, shit You seen the Jesus, dipped to H classes, Ice project off lights, chick flashes Blind your broke asses, even got rocks in big mustaches Biggie - I love the dough "...Nigga I ain't got a money printer So for this paper chase I'm out runnin' sprinters... gettin' money is my sport And understand the rap game is my court So I shall walk and come forth like a Rockport Or some sort of... matchin' slippers or yacht shoes See I don't cruise control I control the cruise Lil Wayne - You aint know "...got more whips than a runaway slave Me and Yayo go back like some high top fades When I made fifty mill, Em got paid When I made sixty mill, Dre got paid When I made eighty mill, Jimmy got paid I ain't even gotta rap now life is made Said I ain't even gotta rap, I'm filthy mayne 50 Cent - Straight to the bank "...I wear more bling to The Source and Soul Train's More chains than rings, niggaz won't do a thing Jay-z - Change the game "...Cadillac grills Cadillac bills Check out the oil My cadillac spills Matter of fact Candy paint Cadillac kills So check out the hoes my cadillac fills 20 inch wide 20 inch high Hold on to my 20 inch ride Ludacris - Southern Hospitality "...I gotta '66 Impala so fresh White top, burnt drop wit' the choppers on deck It was off, Panda motor on a '94 'Vette Fish bowl, televisions pimpin' I ain't done yet I got the cherry red leather and I'm sittin' on chrome On 26 inches just to get my roll on T.I. - Front Back Seriously I only difference I see is that hip hop moving with time, it is the 21st century things need to be upgraded. I don't see no one still walking around with those big ass walkie talkie cellphones. All I see is an upgrade. You don't like the gangsta rap you 20 years late, you don't like the pop rap you over twenty years late...remember apache jump on it, jump on it. That was a pop rap song sugar hill gang made. Point is your late if you are complaining. And with the lyrics I just proved is more than anything rappers had broaden their albums to have all genres of hip hop on there. Nearly everybody has done some of each, I didn't make any of those lyrics up neither just look and that aint even the half of it. It is a shame everybody is having this pointless arguement. Doing more to harm the community? Rappers and athletes are the only celebrities that gives back to the community. But no one pays attention to that. No one pays attention to the ludacris foundation, no one pays attention to 50 cent's charity for kids mostly. Better question is why is nobody listening when they talk about that?
Hip Hop is w/out a doubt detrimental to the black community. In my mind, the US of fucking A is a pyramid. You have those on top, and those at the bottom. Hip Hop helps in keeping those that are at the bottom, right where they are. The only people that benefit from hip hop production are the producers, and the white man that owns these productions. It promotes violence in the black community, and while some rich white kids will see these lyrics as a mere "story line", there are countless young black males living and breathing the story lines of hip hop. Most of these youngsters know not of how to cope with their lives. Having no father figure to listen to,and a community/society that has pretty much abandoned them, sometimes the only means of hearing an externalized depiction of their internalized struggles is through hip hop lyricism. Not only that but hip hop to these young black males is in many ways what the bible is to Christians When you have beautiful women like beyonce, talking about "i need a solja".....basically to me she either made that song at gun point, OR shes stupid,,OR she doesnt care about the black community. The song pretty much talks about how she wants a "thug" in her life, someone who "makes money three ways". No where in that song did she say anything about wanting a brother with a good education. later
Re: Has hip hop done more harm to Black community than good? They are part of the problem, just because they offer some solution after making the problem worse doesnt mean they are saints. The only rapper i will ever respect is one that talks about NOTHING but knowledge and enlightenment. One that has a charity that promotes early childhood education in the ghettos. Not only that, but building a few schools for youngsters would also help. Promoting education, and assisting from an early age an educated attitude in the mind set of young black males is what successful blacks ought to be doing A mere charity will not solve the problem. You should tackle the problem from an early age. Now that would make me respect a rapper........charity??...haha,,i laugh at that shit. If you spoon feed people, you will always have a problem,,,,however if teach them how to eat from an early age ,the problem will subside.
Now anybody can probably attest to the fact that today’s music is trash, plain & simple. The reason for that is because the music industry is run by a bunch of corporate bureaucrats who care more about advertising revenue than actual good music. It’s as if every single beat sounds exactly the same as the next one. Where’s the funk? Where’s the bass? All you hear is a heavy beat, a catchy phrase, and a snap-pop. Call me optimistic, but I believe that hip-hop will improve one day. Things have to get worse before they can get better.
Rap/Hip-Hop has evolved a lot in 30 years. From Kurtis Blow and Grandmaster Flash to 50 Cent and Kane West. The big money is always the dirty,raunchy,and degrading. Most of the legends didn't get those big money deals. Gangsta Rap came along and opened an industry that is detrimental. The big labels are not owned by brothers but by White males. As for distribution the same.
I made my point and through the facts out. When facts don't get listen to it just goes to show the listener has the problem not the talker. Facts are facts and there is no changing that no matter how you roll your eyes at them or brush over them, they will still be there, because there is nothing more real than a fact. Show me your facts instead of ya'll opinions to counter what I speak and quoted, I feel quite sure about myself that you can't do it..... Oh and one more lyrical content "...IT AIN'T NOTHING BUT MUSIC. Dr. Dre
I find it quite humorous that someone who isnt american would consider himself knowledgable enough to be critical of hip-hop. Yeah...I said it!
You know, mere minutes after you posted this I was gonna say that someone, a real american, would point out that you aren't [black] american and so you can't be critical of hip-hop. But I said naaaah. I guess I was wrong.
In my opinion, you make some valid points (regardless of citizenship). Music has always been a mirror to society both for the good and the bad. Bottom line, the old rule applies - garbage in.. garbage out. Surrounding yourself with positive, uplifting influences in every aspect of your life is always a good idea. What is cutting edge art and what is detrimental crap is very much a subjective decision, this discussion reminds me of the whole "piss christ" controversy years back.
Mayne, I always try to avoid this argument 'cause it seems so transparent to me...nonetheless, blacks folks argue so much amongst ourselves, we have a difficult time getting anything accomplished. Hell, you're more productive avoiding silly dust-ups puttin' in work by your lonely. Most people particularly in our community simply don't want to accept that MAINSTREAM rap music DOES have a negative impact on our culture...PERIOD. Has rap changed?...more or less it's evolved, but that's not the question. The reality is that rap has elevated to mainstream and the "unproductive" elements of the music completely overshadows the "conscious" aspects of the music. The industry isn't about talent, it's about trends...what's hot...copycats. So when you get one idiot jawing about some ignant bullsh*t, and it sells...(primarily to those with expendable income - a demographic that has no reality of what hip-hop culture is about)...then the rest of the industry jumps on the bandwagon...the slippery slope continues. There's a lot of productive and conscious artists who get NO BURN because they won't dumb down their music to suit what's hot right now. The Lupe's and Commons and Kanyes are few and far in between...not enough to uplift the rap game from it's generally stagnant and uncreative status. We also have to keep in mind everybody has a different definition of what positive is. I think Kanye is conscious, some don't. It doesn't matter how many charities 50 has, his prevailing image does nothing to further the advancement of minorities....period. No one can argue that. You can love his music, but accept what he is...unconstructive. I'll readily admit I'm being hypocritical myself, being a major fan of Bone, Luda, Fab, Twista, etc. But I can accept when their lyrics are not constructive. How many more rappers do we need telling us what's going on in the streets? I know that I know and most of you do too, so that lame excuse is tired. It aint no secret thats only revealed on a rap CD. Most of them aren't telling stories, they're boasting of real or imagined street dreams...that does nothing but paint unrealistic pictures in the heads of young boys. When you have negative images of yourself constantly in the mainstrem media, we do ourselves no favors by further glorifying the negative. Most of us grew up looking up to the local athletes, rappers, or D-boys and aspiring to be like one of the 3 groups, I know I wanted to ball. What would happen if we promoted more images of Dentists, Lawyers, Entrepreneurs..etc. Logic tells me, we'd have more young boys striving for those same goals. ...and I KNOW that the mainstream media does not promote positivity w/in our culture, but damnit, we have to start with ourselves. ....I knew I should've ignored this thread. One-luv family. 8)
Its not about citizenship as much as its about culture. Hip-hop didnt evolve to give a voice to all black people. It developed to give a voice to those who were not listened to. Black or white...if your from a middle-class, nuclear family, then hip-hop doesnt really speak for you. And there are some "struggling folks" who dont get hip-hop, either. But it did for me, and millions of other kids who wanted to learn about the world we live in...the good as well as the bad. I remember my mother telling me that she hated cops, didnt trust them, and warned me not to trust them either. I didnt understand what she was saying and kinda took it with a grain of salt. Then in the late 80's, a rap group talked about how america has turned a blind eye to the plight of blacks who are the victims of police brutality and an inequitable social programs. They talked about fighting fire with fire because they couldnt get justice from such a racist judicial system. (The things they rapped about were the most shocking things I had ever heard and couldnt believe that they were allowed to make records saying the things they said.) They were branded menaces and part of the problem. Even after all the things they talked about was proven true...with the Rodney King verdict and the Latasha Harlins trial. Every horrible thing that they said took place that people dismissed as exaggeration turned out to be real! That group was N.W.A...probably the most controversial rap group in history! So if hip-hop doesnt represent you or you dont understand it, fine. But dont dismiss it as "garbage in-garbage out" because it doesnt speak for you.
Agree and disagree with you, Intrigue, but you should post because there are those who have never heard of common, the roots, lupe, PE, brand nubian, t. kwlei, x-clan, jungle bros...and the list goes on. Everyone knows that bullsh*t sells and all entertainment genres have quality and crap. People just like to pick on hip-hop becuase its a minority platform that gives a voice to people they dont want to listen to.
So if hip-hop doesnt represent you or you dont understand it, fine. But dont dismiss it as "garbage in-garbage out" because it doesnt speak for you.[/quote] You make some solid points here, I did not mean to come accross as dismissing ALL hip hop, as I do enjoy some hip hop artists, the garbage in garbage out quote was meant for those who are just in it for the money and will say and do anything, no matter how degrading, as long as it is economically expedient. Not sure I agree with the NWA being vanguards in reporting the social injustices and outright brutality of those in positions of authority. There were plenty of social commentaries and political activists SCREAMING about the situation for the Black disenfranchised and poor. I would agree that NWA's exposure from all the controversy they created brought their message to a larger audience who were not paying any attention. I would also say that in my opinion, NWA was a double edged sword in that they certainly played into, perpetuated, and profited from, negative stereotypes.
They were vanguards as far as hardcore rap and really put the west coast rap scene on the map. They are the definition of "gansta rap." And political activist and commentators at that time didnt deliver the same message N.W.A did...who talked about killing police officers and judges who brutilized minorites. N.W.A. was a double edged sword...but arent we all?
