If You Could Be Reborn, Would You Be Black or White?

So all people, of all races, are objectively the same (as in, there are no cultural differences?)

Many gender differences ARE a result of cultural expectation and tradition; of course there are fundamental biological differences between the genders but you know and always have done that I'm not talking about those.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with it. His point of view might be distasteful to some, but he has a right to make his own choices and form his own opinions concerning his life. Remember though others have the right to give their interpretation of his choices and opinions too. Everyone has a right to their own choices and opinions, but they don't have a right to how other people react to or interpret them. That's why its called a discussion board and not a blog.



IMHO, an open minded person, when confronted with assertions that are in opposition to his own, would at least consider, and counter, the premises before dismissing the conclusion. That facilitates a discussion. A close minded person would dismiss it without consideration for whatever their reasons: fragile ego, laziness, lack of rhetorical skills, etc.



Here is my interpretation of it:



Your friend is black. For the sake of not digressing onto a semantics tangent, I define black as being primarily of African descent with little or no other ethnic influences, or negroid. I define white as being of primarily European descent with little or no other ethnic influences, or caucusoid. He did not choose to be black. His parents who are most likely black chose it for him. It is an inalterable part of his identity, unlike becoming rich or famous or prettier or skinnier. That he does not like the fact that he is black and wants to change it is inarguable.



What is arguable here is whether its fair to interpret his actions as self-hate. To me, the essential evidence is how he judges others that share his identity, i.e. other black people and whether he chooses to suppress that part of his identity. Don't get me wrong. It does not logically follow that a black man that dates white women hates himself. In other words, though some people may swear it is, dating white women is not the sole determining factor in whether you hate yourself or not.

My assertion is:



IF



1

A black man that dates/marries a white women AND



2

would prefer to be white by his own admission AND



3

does everything in his power to consciously and deliberately oppress or suppress those parts of his identity that are black



he THEREFORE



hates himself.



Now each of the premises are necessary and all of them together are sufficient for me to be convinced of self-hate. So to me its not enough to just say if he "acts white", or "talks white", or "listens to white music", he hates himself. We all know those terms are loaded with relative and contextual value judgments, and take on a different meaning depending on who you are talking to. All three conditions must apply.


So here's what's wrong with it IMHO: It's a fact, you can't change your race. No matter what you do. You had no choice in the matter and you never will. So accept reality and move on to more constructive and progressive pursuits.

 

I'm sure you did sympathize with someone like him, not to mention that he's actually your friend as well.

This response proves that he does have self-hate issues. Being white doesn't make it any easier. See if every white man you talk to would confirm that it is 'much easier' to hook up with or be with a white woman because they are white, and you are not. Wanting to be reborn white because of it is self-hatred.

Why would I wish for something like that???

 

Wait... you mean like, the way you described men versus women in the thread entitled 'SELF CONTROL'?

 

Agreed. 100%

 

Oh, please! :roll: Do you even pay attention to your own posts???

"Well, I'm not ashamed to be black, but I would like to be reincarnated as white because life would be easier for me, because I just love white girls, and black people can be close-minded and hypocritical about things, and can't take what they dish out, and even though I've experienced more racism from white people, I still feel that black people are more racist, and have always felt alienated by them, but I don't like it when people who white, try to act black, but if that's how they are, then I love it, but when black people accuse white people of this and that, then they are being hypocritical", BLAH-BLAH-BLAH , and more BLAH. What is your motherf%*$in' deal, dude? :lol:

His heart and brain warped over years ago, and hasn't been the same since.

Now, assume that you live in la-la land, if you believe that people don't treat him nicer because of it, but you, yourself, know that racism actually exists.

Oh, this just screams volumes aboutYOU. Re-read your question for this topic. That is EXACTLY what you were asking us, and since when is black skin 'insignificant'?

Well, son-of-a-bitch. The boy knows how to give himself away.

Great hypothesis, Malcolm X. Just great.

WOOOOO... :shock: :smt011 You're an awesome dude. Simply AWESOME.

Yes, continue to preach the gospel truth! :smt005

I guess you have a point here though. If I were white, then I would have a much better life, and be considered more important to society as a whole. Then, I will be able to get a job, go anywhere without worrying about anyone disliking me for any reason, get a beautiful white girlfriend, marry her, make her pregnant, and have beautiful white babies, who will also grow up 'privileged' and successful at all of their endeavors, knowing that their 'race' grants them that self-worth, along with the necessary components to accomplish goals, and be seem as human to the world. Yea, I see what you mean there.

That way, I won't have to worry about watching BET, joining the NAACP, having a big ass dick, curly hair, and and big camel nose with booty lips, and being called doo-doo, and stuff. It is a curse, to be black, isn't it?

I guess I'll opt for white as well. :lol:

 

Hmm....so how does appealing to someone else's convictions whilst holding to your own constitutes one being "open-minded?" Technically speaking, we should always allow for the possibility that someone is correct -- they of course, must provide logical support to their claims, if they can not, then we are justified in dismissing their assertion. Emotional accounts for believing are of course understandable, but if the logic behind that belief is wrong, then, it can not possibly be rational.

Just because one points out the irrational of its logic, doesn't make them "close minded" quite the contrary, they are exercising a skeptical mind, which is quite "open minded." To be clear the way I define open mindness would be: a person who argues from knowledge, not ignorance and can show a conclusion that has highly probable evidence they put forth which can stand to the test of logic and the critique of reasoning.

I only think the problem begins where a person emotional beliefs start to supersede logic and they can not recognise the difference between the two.

 

tan or beige actually

 

To answer your question Pey:

If I had the choice to be reborn, I would choose to be the same person. My life as it is, has been fun, education, challenging, yet fulfilling. I possibly can't imagine ( and I really did think about this for a while) what being white could offer me that I possibly can't get by staying the same.

You should know that regardless of who you are, you will have challenges presented to you. White people, like any other group of people have their own set of challenges. A more constructive question would be "how can I better myself". Think about this for a while. Think of everything you think you would gain becoming a white person. Now, do you think there is anyway you could achieve those things without changing yourself. I think it is an African thing, but it is very common in Nigeria, to see a kid wearing rags, eating from the dump talking as though he owns the earth. Yes, on the surface it look as though the kid is on crack. But by believing in himself, that kid has taken the largest step to achieving his/her goals.

While I thank God for not haven grown up eating from dumps (many are not so fortunate), I know that my humble beginnings would not have suggested some of the things I have accomplished to date. Yes, it would have been easier having everything handed to me, but that would be no life (life is about learning about yourself and what better time than when you are under enormous amount of stress)

Today I feel cool, confident and optimistic because I know I have defied odds to be where I am now. That is what gives me my "swagger" (is that how they say it) when I walk. Though I make sure my so called swagger doesn't turn into some sort of abnormality. LOL.

If I were white, I do be a white guy dating a white girl (supposing I still have a preference for white girls). That would be boring. The contrast in skin color and life experience is (well, some of the things) what makes IR so beautiful. I would be disappointed if they were gone!

 

I agree with you I would not to be anything other than what I am. I have never even entertained a thought like that.

 

I would want to be me, with brown skin like i have now. though rather than black, i would be negro, like I am without the PCers!!

in my youth, i have felt at times that I wish i wasnt black-because of how hard it is sometimes--but as I mature and see so many people who are poor, homeless, disabled, from disfunctional families and uneducated--I THank the Lord, Jesus that HE made me just the way I am. from a well to do family, never wanted or needed anything, my family is one of a kind, amazing and blessed by God to have travelled and lived all over the world. a wonderful history of a family with over a hundred years of education, wealth and property/business owners and most importantly--being called to be a Christian

ME is more than sufficient

 

The standard definition is:

o·pen-mind·ed (pn-mndd)
adj.
Having or showing receptiveness to new and different ideas or the opinions of others.

 

That definition is extremely vague and still does not describe how you are being open/receptive to new ideas whilst holding on to your own.

 

Because it's perfectly possible to listen to other people's arguments carefully and with respect whilst having strongly held views of your own. There is more than one 'right' answer to many situations - in fact, no 'right' answers to many morally uncertain issues, depending upon how people's viewpoints stand - and thus it is important to listen to people's views with respect in order to establish a healthy discourse, and acknowledge the grey areas.

 

So...carefully listening with respect constitutes an open minded person. That again is an extremely vague concept. First we must determine what is proper respect in "listening" and how much rambling on emotional concepts can be tolerated before one can logically deduce it to as irrational. Or should we all be mindless sheep for the sake of not hurting someone's feelings!? What we should acknowledge first, is the case on one's beliefs given many situations are emotional accounts.

 

Of course they are, particularly when they're premised upon religious or other ethical concepts, which are most often heartfelt but unable to be explained using 'logic' or 'reason' - surely the antitheses of 'belief'?
Being truly open minded is to be aware that you don't find those accounts to be reasoned, but to respect that they might be extremely valuable to someone else. I don't think it can be said that to accept other people's ideas of what is 'right' - acceptance of diverse opinion is really what we're talking about - can be said to be acting like a 'sheep', if you do yourself hold views which you feel are rational and reasoned. No-one should ask you to agree with their views, only that you don't dismiss them out of hand.

 

By all those definitions spewing out, I am happy "Closed Minded" and have the truth that I know is correct. Never thought I would be considered closed minded ,especially after going to the most liberal university in the US, but boy am I happy and liberated to know that I nothing happened when I admitted I am closed minded.

If someone has a point, sure I listen, and then I judge the words based on faith and Gods word, what is correct I keep, what is not discard.

 

That's the definition. You can't redefine words.

No. Listening is not a vague concept. You feel me! Its a a part of being open-minded. Its a way to find the facts in the other persons argument to put through your own deductive reasoning analyses in order to determine whether or not they are, or are not, making sense or they are making an emotional argument. Open-minded is then weighing their argument against your own and honestly throwing out the argument that makes the least sense whether its yours or theirs. Granted, its not an easy for anyone to be. But, ultimately it should get you to a better understanding of the issue at hand.

 

:lol: American vernacular I suspect!? No surprise there! Check your local Oxford dictionary and it should say something like enlightened, undogmatic, etc Again, I repeat, your definition is extremely vague like most American vernacular.

I did not say "listening" was a vague concept. I did say "listening with respect" is a extremely vague concept. Ya feel me!?

Oh.....I see........if I was say your attraction to bm is solely on the basis of his skin and other racial "stereotypes" and called you an racist because of it....would that be something you would accept!? I do not think so....I think you will combat that assertion if it isn't true.

In order for ANY "open mindness" to take place, we must first establish who accounts are psychological investments, sadly, most arguments never get past this stage and end up in one revolving circle -- with people effectively talking about nothing, ending in a "false compromise." Acceptance of diverse opinion derives out of false compromise. The fallacy of False Compromise mimics the dialectical move to a rational synthesis, but does not actually propose a resolution. It leaps to the conclusion that "the truth is in the middle," without proposing where in the middle it is, and without examining what is wrong with either of the two "extremes." In some cases, a False Compromise may even propose a "middle ground" between two views that are mutually exclusive and exhaustive, i.e. where no middle ground exists.

 

Nope. What's the difference :?:

From Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary:

open-minded adj. willing to listen to, think about or accept different ideas

Is that English enough for you?

How is your definition is even close to Oxford's?