Immortal Cells...Who would have known?

[Felicity]

Felicity.

I never said there werent issues, but you have to have the big picture in mind. All vaccines are immune depressing to some extent and that is the trade-off we are risking.
The medical thought is that we trade a small immune depression for an immunity to one disease. Now let me repeat, we are trading a total immune system depression (our only defense against all known disease - including millions of pathogens) for a temporary immunity against one disease, usually an innocuous childhood disease.


My point: scare tactics that scare people away from real needed healthcare is not the way to go.
You post a bunch of posts of stuff against vaccines but forget that the positive stories out weigh by far the negative sides and also very onesided theories that has never been backed up.

Some of the stuff you post are real, some are seriously flawed and outright wrong and conspiracy-ish, covert vaccine experiments for one. I have seen this on the web but the sources are not credible.
Given how the system is set up - nothing to do with companies, Im talking FDA etc - I simply dont see how any clinical trial can be set up covertly - as conset etc is a huge issue - back in the day, I would not be surprised, today? There is more to this story, it doesnt add up at all. When you see these stories, you also see words like "genocide by vaccine" etc, I would be very careful. I have researched this before and its very hard to follow.

Cancer usually takes about 20 years to develop... but given that vaccines are somewhat immunosuppressive - it is possible to somehow develop another disease... but again, the risks of not taking a vaccine far outweighs the riskst with the vaccines

You have managed to pull together a lot of stuff you have not cross referenced and is not backed up some are pure theories.
That was my point from the beginning - dont take one sourse as the truth - ever - in anything.


Weighing NOT getting a vaccine and the risks from vaccines, I will never take the risk NOT taking a vaccine as those risks far outweigh the risks from vaccines.
Noting in medicine is 100% safe.... heck, you can go in for a simple surgery and die of anastehia.

You have to look at the big picture - what will NOT taking a vaccine lead to?


On the flipside, always go into the doc educated and ask questions, its your right. If you are not comfortable, get another doctor - he should know and be able to give you the information, if not - leave.
Never let anyone make these decissions for you.

I'm in agreement with you 100%

My emotional coloring, based on my warm welcome to the board elsewhere, caused me to view your words "Educate yourself" as condescending. I took offense.
Forgive my incorrect assumption.

I'm all about open discussing and debate.
Such open discussion and debate cannot be forthcoming if there is only one side presented.

Because I present an opposing side does not mean I adhere to its principles.
I present it for the learning and expansion of the mind.

I dare say since I've been here, post count has increased.

We should always question any information unless we've been able to view the source documentation or talk to witnesses.

I tend to be like Mulder on the X-Files. 'Trust no one'.


Cross referencing is important but if you cross reference with information that is also false you come up with a false conclusion.

What is the truth?

I have no doubt that the government can easily, perhaps through the military, do covert biological warfare experimentation and research and the general public won't know a thing about it.

I'm just that cynical and untrusting.

I appreciate your post to discuss the topic with me.

Thank you.

 

[Felicity]

This really shows how little you know about the subject.
And Im not trying to be mean here.

I'm not saying I know anything on the subject.
I don't take your words to be mean at all.
I posted that theory because I wanted to know your thoughts on it, not because I thought that theory had merit or not.

This information is online for all to read.
I wanted your thoughts on it as you are the medical researcher on this site.

I also know that the media will influence the masses and such books combined with Hollywood movies and science fiction novels may cause the facts to be blurred for the general public.

As the song lyrics state "If I saw it on t.v. then it must be true."

or maybe I should
at the horrible thought of such gullibility of society.

As I said before, you can divide breast cancer into about a minimum of 14 different cancers. There are over 200 different cancers with different causes and different biology - its not that easy - there will never be a one size answer for cancer.We have done great advances is Breast cancer, Prostate cancer etc Child leukemia, was a death sentence in the 70s, today we cure the vast majority - so , yes, there are great strides made.

I think the author postulates that the forms of cancer could be a result of the interaction of the DNA of the vaccines with the DNA of the person being inoculated.

A 20 year period of cell regeneration within the body could possibly be the length of time needed for that vaccine DNA to reveal itself in a different state now mutated specifically for that person, could it not?

And that personalized specificity could easily cause the myriad of different cancers prevalent today because yes, no two humans are exactly the same although their basic DNA is homosexual sapien.

Also, Chemotherapy is these days used as backbones and using our own biochemical pathways are now where the research is going - where you do personalized medicine.

We know a lot of mutations etc that are common in certain cancers, we look for that and treat the patient with compounds specific for that - such as colorectal cancer or lung cancer or breast cancer, they initially look for these mutations to get a grasp of what type of cancer it is and what drugs would, or would not work.

Could it be much like a computer virus that attacks randomly the basic registries and directories and then splits off into the subdirectories and files infiltrating the whole system and each day for the computer technician to 'cure' the virus from the system, he must change his attack because the virus chooses random locations from which to set up its own attack and defense?

Look up Avastin, Tarceva, Herceptin, Cetuximab, IGF1R inhibitors, PARP inhibitors. etc. interresting reads.

Thank you, for the reading material.

These cell lines are very well defined and everybody are well aware of their limitations. Noone that only uses these for research can be published, you have to back it up using experiments that are in context of "X" diesase.

Its only used for initial testing, for screening of coumpunds. For the rest of the research, the research that really counts are done in animals and in human clinical trials...

What if there were other compounds better used that are missed because the cell lines being used are masking potential better results because of their immortality? Has that question ever been addressed?


I'm saying that we become so use to thinking within the box of acceptable possibilities that we may forget to shake off the cobwebs and look outside the box to different possibilities.

It has always been those different possibilities that have brought us to new understanding about all aspects of life.

How many things do we take for granted today that 100 years ago would be laughed at as poppycock?

For the record, I've had all the vaccinations the board of health has required.
I have not taken the flu shot, nor will I.
So far, my own body has done quite well in defending itself.

Both my parents had cancer, so I'm expecting that specter to find me one day if it hasn't already.

I see the bigger picture for now.
What will be the bigger picture 200 years from now?


It was told to me the other day, that ideas can come from anywhere and are as valid as any idea.

Words out of the mouths of babes can humble the wisest of men.

 

[FG]

I'm in agreement with you 100%

My emotional coloring, based on my warm welcome to the board, caused me to view your words "Educate yourself" as condescending. I took offense.
Forgive my incorrect assumption.

I'm all about open discussing and debate.
Such open discussion and debate cannot be forthcoming if there is only one side presented.

Because I present an opposing side does not mean I adhere to its principles.
I present it for the learning and expansion of the mind.

I dare say since I've been here, post count has increased.

We should always question any information unless we've been able to view the source documentation or talk to witnesses.

I tend to be like Mulder on the X-Files. 'Trust no one'.


Cross referencing is important but if you cross reference with information that is also false you come up with a false conclusion.

What is the truth?

I have no doubt that the government can easily, perhaps through the military, do covert biological warfare experimentation and research and the general public won't know a thing about it.

I'm just that cynical and untrusting.

I appreciate your post to discuss the topic with me.

Thank you.

I really didnt mean it offensively at all to tell you the truth.
I just meant go out there and get the info and never forget th ebig picture.
Lots of what is written becomes so myopic it by default becomes out of context.
Problem is, when somebody has true emotions connected to a topic based on personal experiences, you cant be biased. A lot of negative stuff published is from parents who had something bad happening, they ar eangry, rightully so but it will color what they write.

I, the other day was trying to get info about Elocon and some side-effects (peri0oral dermatitis) and all I found was horrible things. I know that the vast majority that uses Elocon have great results and a few do have issues (that are on the warning label) but as poeple dont end up writing stuff like that on the web when it is good - you look it up and it looks all bad.. terrible even... that doesnt mean its the truth. Peopl ealwasy take time to complain etc when things go wrong but people have a tendency to not take that time of it is all hunkydory.

Yes, there are risks, are they so large that it warrants not vaccinating. No, not even close.
I doubt we ever will be 100% sure in anythimg medical, we are humans.

If you feel this strongly about it, I suggest you get to a univesity library where you will have access to Pubmed and such. Also investigate the opposition and who they are and their background, just to make sure.

I have in the past acctually sent random e-mails to professors to ask if I could have 30 minutes of his time to ask a question and I have and believe it or not, many are willing to let you have some of their time to talk about thinsg they are passionate about.
So if you want, maybe you can do that with a vaccine scientist.

The government has done really shady things in the military before so Im not one to say it cant happen.

 

[Felicity]

I really didnt mean it offensively at all to tell you the truth.

I know you didn't.
That was my own perception based on the hostility towards me on other threads. My perception was unwarranted. I do apologize for that assumption based on my own emotional colorings.

I just meant go out there and get the info and never forget th ebig picture.
Lots of what is written becomes so myopic it by default becomes out of context.
Problem is, when somebody has true emotions connected to a topic based on personal experiences, you cant be biased. A lot of negative stuff published is from parents who had something bad happening, they ar eangry, rightully so but it will color what they write.

You can't discount the negatives, but you are correct the positives also need to be viewed.

It is much like viewing television news. It seems all you hear is the negative and nothing positive.

Yes, there are risks, are they so large that it warrants not vaccinating. No, not even close.
I doubt we ever will be 100% sure in anything medical, we are humans.

Again, it goes back to being biased.
Everyone will have some bias based on their own experiences.

If a mother loses her child to a drunk driver, she will focus her efforts to getting drunk drivers off the road.

If a mother loses her child to some vaccine complication, you know she's going to be researching into the depths of the basement security labs to find out why it happened.

My friend did get his cancer from vaccines. It happens.

 

[Felicity]

I wanted to put this separately so it doesnt get lost:

Always be critical, but dont let anyone convince you of anything in medicine. What is the right decission for me is might not be the right one for you.

If you have access, unbiased information can be found at
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
clinicaltrials.gov
ANY clinical trial opening in the country must be registered here.

Citeline and trialtrove are other sources but they cost money.

This is a passion of mine, getting access of medical information to underserved socioeconomically "disadvatage" groups.
It drives me nuts every day how much information that does not get where it needs to go. Such as access to clinical trials or free drug programs.

This is something I have a desire to work on but I would have to start a company as nothing really exists and then I would have to get donations to run it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly!
Get on FB, blog, RSS feeds, twitter.....
Set up your own website. I'm sure there are web designers that would be willing to help you start your website!

The internet is the media of the future. Use it to your advantage.

This is a great idea.
Tell me more about it.

 

[Felicity]

There is research bias based on funding.

It happens.
You even admitted to the rotten eggs.

I did not say ALL research was biased.
I said research can be biased.



My friend also has been privy to clinical studies that have been unbiased.

He's also knows of clinical studies that have been biased funded by an industry that wanted new drugs to fund the coffers so don't tell me that all researchers are pure angels when in fact they are not and the pharmaceutical companies and sports industry are paying big bucks for that magic bullet that will bring them the bonanza.


I didn't mean to be offensive to you FG.
I understand your passion and get it and respect it.

All industries, and research is an industry, will have their shady side.

I made a statement of fact that bias does happen.
Maybe not in your circles of influence but bias can be there.

 

[Felicity]

Sorry I did n't get a chance to read each and every post. But the farce that MMR causes Autism has been refuted. The british scientist who published this BS finding many years ago in major UK scientific paper has gotten a major slap on his face recently. The editors of the journals have said "the scientist was dishonest and irresponsible in conducting his research, his data lacks significant scientific backing and has major selection bias" So, tell Jenny McCartney to get off Larry King live and just pose for playboy.

Vaccine for most part are very effective, safe and affordable. Sure they have side effects such as fever, local tenderness and irritability but are safe for most part. So get your kids vaccinated. No, I do not get a kick back from Pfizer or Abbott, at least not anymore. LoL.

Great post!

I can't rep ya but if I could I would!

It does prove my point about erroneous information and dishonesty in the scientific community.

I'm of the opinion we should help FG achieve her dream and passion.
How can we help her?

 

[Felicity]

Reps to you too FG, but I can't rep you for your well written posts!

I, the other day was trying to get info about Elocon and some side-effects (peri0oral dermatitis) and all I found was horrible things. I know that the vast majority that uses Elocon have great results and a few do have issues (that are on the warning label) but as poeple dont end up writing stuff like that on the web when it is good - you look it up and it looks all bad.. terrible even... that doesnt mean its the truth. Peopl ealwasy take time to complain etc when things go wrong but people have a tendency to not take that time of it is all hunkydory.

Women are being taught to not trust the positive information online because that information is biased towards the drug whatever the drug may be.
You said it yourself. Find out the source of the information and then determine its bias, if any.

To have a "drug interaction type checker" format on all the research would be fantastic for mothers and all those who need and want the information to make informed choices about their health.