Jews should leave the middle east... ?

In recent weeks, we've all been witness to yet another installation of a bloody war spectacle that has been going on for centuries ... As blacks and whites leaving America (in relative harmony), we should have some empathy for the plight of the folks who die everyday in the Gaza and West Bank. I thought I'd get you to share your thoughts on my idea for a way out ...

The Jews should (perhaps) just walk away from their land ... albeit with visitation rights to the holy land into perpetuity ... For humanitarian reasons, various Arab regional states and government bodies could compensate them for their land [though this may work out to be pennies on the dollar] I hope I don't offend anyone in this suggestion for it is an innocent one ... geared at cultivating peace in a "holy" land.

Consider the following ... If I lived in a neighborhood wherein no one wanted me ... and I didn't much care for the folks who lived around me .... and I had the means and the power, I would pack up my bags and move out. You might say, "...wait John, but your parents owned the land; it's your land by birthright; your great-grand parents were buried there; etc ...." I would turn around and say ".... OK, but this is not worth a miserable life or a dead life. I'll leave the land, sell off the land perhaps at a deep discount ... and negotiate visitation rights to come and see my "holy" land once a month ...."

Do you guys think that this would be a viable solution ? The Jews could leave the middle east for the some other land in Europe & North America. The truth is that the Jews have much more in common with Americans and Europeans. On a per capita basis, they have the means to make such a transition. As it stands today, there are more Jews outside Israel than there is in Israel.

It has always struck me that the Jews are in a better position to make this decision to move .... They are wealthier per capita and en masse, and they have a more organized governance structure. They leave by the rule-of-law.

When two stalwarts have been at war ad infinitum, one person needs to be the bigger person and pull back ... the recent war in Lebanon was pointless. Everybody knows the Jews had the bigger arsenal. They didn't need to pull an offensive to show magnanimity. In fact, they showed how little they can be --- propped up in part by the tacit approval of Bush.

Sadly, I don't think that the Jews leaving the region will bring peace. Men have always found more clever reasons to kill each other.

I do think that a Jewish exodus from the region will bring the region closer to peace ... Certainly, there are other intractable problems. There is a commercial problem: we loose an ally in a region that is a major source of energy for us. we may possibly introduce a humanitarian calamity of biblical proportions in the war that will no-doubt ensue (Osama traditionalists who want to take the region back to a purer time when Islamists ruled the earth vs. Progressives a la Saudis who believe Islam and money can co-exist).... A far greater problem is where should the Jews go ? I think that there are many parts of the western world that would welcome them ... but where? Finally, history is not on our side. Sierra Leone and Liberia have not turned out well.

Since college, I've maintained a great many close friends from Israel and Palestine. I'm saddened to see these two ancients civilizations not get along .... and the rest of the world just does nothing as the killing continues.

Your thoughts !!!!

JohnMP

 

The jews aren't the only ones guilty of stealing land and occupying territories..

Just look at the A-rabs and their racist occupation of the entire northern part of the African continent..

Fuck them BOTH..

I hope they snuff one another..

 

I think it comes down to respect.

I don't think all Jewish people have money either. No more than all black people have lower IQ's - So I don't think they can/should just pack up and leave.

It's a complex issue over there and it's one that they will need to resolve themselves.

I like the the fact that you are trying to come up with a solution to that problem however.

 

Sounds like an intersting solution. Germany should have really given up land for Israel. This problem won't be solved anytime soon. Especially when you mix in religion. The truth of that matter is US,Western Europe,etc are divided on who deserves what. The rest of the world has their own problems or just doesn't want to go head to head with US. If there wasn't religion involved then maybe something could eventually work out. But this will go on for who knows how long.

 

Give it to them

I think it would be a hell of a lot more interesting if you just gave the Jews the middle east. Considering how they manage to turn lemons in lemonade regardless of what happens to them imagine what they could do with a great big sandbucket of oil .

 

It's nice to see that there isn't a general thrashing of the idea (that perhaps Jews might find a better peace away from the middle east.

Flaming: Your "fuck them all" sentiments are coming from a place of exasperation, perhaps. Ironically, the Jews and the Palestinians probably feel the same way. I would hope that the world would not give up so soon on a besieged people ... We should remember that, though terribly terribly late, the world over did not give up on blacks in South Africa in the '70s and '80s, the genocides of Rwanda were stopped, albeit much later than should have been, human slavery in north America and Europe came to an end only after several hundreds of years, we in the U.S. played a critical role in stopping the holocaust, and (dear I say) the french helped those scalawag revolutionary bandits in the new world secure their freedom from the queen in the 18Th century.

JXSilicon: your thoughts are very interesting ... You're right that Germany should really have given up some land for them... but of course, at the time, the great powers of the world (US, UK, Russia and France) who were at the table agreed that Germany should be carved up into two parts: an East and a West. The eastern region languished into economic and political despair in the decades that followed: but the world did not expect this. The west was lucky enough to exist. The German area would have been a far too complicated and volatile region to allocate yet new land for the Jews who were still recovering from WWII and the holocaust. And as you point out, had it not been for their "Jerusalem" requirement, the "real estate" problem would be easier fixed.

Daphne: ... but how to give the Jews the entire middle east if they are sorely hated in the region in the first place. Consider that a primary objective here is to create peace in the region, hence my assertion that they leave altogether.

Designer: you raise the challenges with the idea .... but, you know, if the world has the political will, we will find the money .... Before Afghan, and Iraq, the U.S. was in a twin balloon deficit with no money to undertake anything so substantial. After 9/11, we found the means (i.e. hundreds of billions in debt) to do what we wanted to do. If the global Jewish community decided that they needed to move out, the funds would show up.

Anyways, do share more your thoughts .... I had anticipated a more vitriolic reaction ... but, I'm glad to see a warmer reception to the notion.

JohnMP

 

Now John- of course what I said was tongue in cheek. However- I would still like to see what would happen if the they owned oil. Why should they leave? Where should they go?

I kinda remember Abe Linc suggesting that we send the slaves back to Africa. Dumb idea.

Thank god that didn't happen. I might be single.

 

Jews immigrated to Israel on their own volition, and were not captured, brought there and slaved for "free" for "hundreds" of years. They have not been kind and empathetic to the plight of those whose land was "stolen" as they were pushed out and slaughtered at the same time. I could understand if they plopped in an unpopulated area somewhere on this globe but that's not the case.

 

John...

Believe me cus..

I KNOW how Jews and A-rabs feel about us..That's why I say FUCK THEM BOTH IN THEIR BEDOUIN ASSES UNTIL THE CAMELS COME HOME..

I was talking to a Dinky Brother who told me some shit even I couldn't believe..The A-rabs would be damn near extinct if we treated them the way they treat us..

They're WORSE than Isrealis when it comes to occupying Territory and killing civilians..But since their victims are Black THEY DON'T GET CALLED ON IT..

 

The A-rabs arrived in Africa the same way the isrealis arrived in the middlie-east..Killing mofos left and right and stealing their land..but when the Isrealis give them a dose of their own medicine THE WORLD CRIES WITH THEM..

Where is everybody's tears when the Arabs are killing off the Dinka and every other indigenous African people they come across???

Egypt..Algeria..Morrocco..Tunisia..Libya..were all occupied the same way Palastine was occupied..

The Africans living there were slaughtered and pushed off their land..not to mention the ones that are sold into slavery and castrated even as we speak..

But nobody seems to care..

Arabs are a lot more oppressive to African people living in the North than the Isrealis are to them..for them to demand justice while they deny it to Africans is amazing..

At least the Isrealis aren't castrating them..

For all they have done and still doing in Africa 100 Nukes wouldn't be enuff for those Bedouin piss-drinkers

 

Damn. You brought the fire on that one bro. I want to read up some more on the Darfur situation also. Trying to catch anything on the news doesn't cut it anymore. The news media gets more useless every day.

 

I remember hearing a really hot debate a couple years ago on 1210 The Big Talker here in Phila about the Arabization<----- sp? of Africa. I wish I could remember some of the points. It stemmed from the discussion regarding the possibility of a Pope from Africa.

I am not Jewish. Though my God is.

I think the Jews are some incredibly resilient people who do not want to dominate the world. Though they probably should.

 

Well I am usually an optimist, I always believe things will work out for the best. This is one of the few cases where I am confident that it WON'T.

First I'd like to comment on the idea that Germany should have given up land, which in my opinion is just ludicrous. While we (German's) have a very dark and troubled history I'd like to point out that we were not the first to mistreat the Jews, strip them of their possessions, deny them human basic rights and kill them. I am not saying this to excuse what happened in Germany, I am saying this to point out that there is not one nation to blame. Look at Russia and Poland and a host of other religions and countries.
Also, do you think those poor, tortured souls would have had any desire to remain in Germany in a protected area of sort?

Jews laid a claim on what is now called the State of Israel long before the holocaust ever happened.

As far as solving the problem,I think if this topic would be discussed without the religious aspect there might be a slight chance for a solution unfortunately that won't happen. The entire conflict is based on Arab and Jewish believe that they are entitled to the holy land and neither of them will budge. The history of the land is so essential to their religion and believes that it will always dominate this discussion.

In addition, let's just assume for a second the Jews move out, moving to a state in Germany for arguments sake. I don't think the controversy in that region would end. We still have Iran, Syria and Pakistan to deal with, which pose a thread whether or not Israel is where it is today.

 

Whether Jews recieved land in Germany or not is not the point. We would have had to move all the Germans and they weren't really playing nice at the time. And who would have taken them? The germans at the time weren't winning any good neighbor awards.

Now- folks in the middle east ALSO have not played nice in the sandbox for a long long long long time. How about they just lay off Israel. Get over it. We got over Vietnam. Japan got over Hiroshima. Much easier than relocation of all the Jews in Israel leaving in mass exodus. And where should they go?

Am I being flip. Sure. But so is the Jews should move.

 

How about the non-Israeli in the area get high tech weapons/nukes/annual funding like Israel gets...keep a balance of sorts?

 

They're starting to equalize the situation a bit. Israel was surprised they had weapons to take out their tanks and missiles that reached deeper into the country than ever before. Tel Aviv was going to be next. I think this is why they agreed to a ceasefire.

 

It's too bad the Palestinians and Israelis can't get along.....

 

It seems none of us will be winning the Nobel Peace prize anytime soon

Ok ...

Flaming: i'll work with you for a second. let's say we proceed to "fuck" all the jews and arabs because they "fucked" africans up way-back-when, then they'll turn around and fuck us up back, then we'll fuck them back, then they fuck us in return, and on and on and on ... Where's the peace ?!?! How to get the peace Flaming? i thought that's what we were trying to get here.

at the core of my thesis is that for peace to be had in the middle east or anywhere else for that matter, one side needs to be the bigger person and not retaliate -- just once. imagine if MLK decided to push retaliation rather than non-violence. imagine how much more bloodshed there would have been between india and pakistan had there not been a Gandhi. imagine that, flaming.

in the '90s after the dismantling of apartheid, arch-bishop desmond tutu headed an incredible group called the "truth and reconciliation commission" in south africa that sought to unearth the truth, forgive, and help the country heal from a vile past. little or no blood was shed in the quiet revolution that ensued. officers and perpetrators of apartheid came out and gave their honest story -- and they were forgiven. there was no retaliation there... and the country has moved on to be the continent's wealthiest.

so, yes, the sheiks and the malams and the goons of the world may have incensed our forefathers, but if we retaliate to their retaliation to their retaliation .... our lives will end shortly and what a waste that would have been. so much more to accomplish if one guy can end the retaliation and prepare the way for everyone to move on with other more intersting things in the world.

this is why i think that the isrealis should drop their sword, and leave the regime so that their children will live elsewhere in peace. i know they want jerusalem, but you don't have to live in jerusalem to be pious. the Palestinians are not a cohesive enough group to be governed into one or any kind of action - let alone peace.

johnMP

 

Daphne: ... please explain a bit more .. you're saying the jews should continue to stay in the region? then what to do about the never-ending attacks from their neighbors ??

Chigirl: .... (big sigh) you're right ... even after the jews leave, violence in the region would continue .... but perhaps it will not be the almighty holy wars ... but smaller-scale regional squabbles.... that would be great progress, still ?

Alessandra: .... you hit the nail on the head ... in a nut shell.

Lucifer: ... I like your idea to balance power in the region by arming the palestinians to the extent that the jews are armed... oddly enough, that may bring about peace. i wonder if the calculus there will work out in the way it did for us/russia, india/pakistan, etc. the iran-iraqi war went on for some 10-yrs and it took place even though they both felt equal to each other.... your idea is worth a thought.

JohnMP