National ID cards

I have a question, why is it that most citizens in the US (at least that is how it appears) oppose a national ID card? Don't you think it would help to decrease identity theft and other crimes?

In Germany we have a national ID card and a passport. When you move you go to the local government office and fill out a form officially notifying them that you move, then in your new town you go again and register your new address. This automatically takes care of forwarding your mail, IRS records, voter registration etc. It is very hard to obtain a fake one (not impossible though).

I can't think of any reasons why one would oppose, what is your opinion re this?

 

we have passports as well, if you wish to get one and travel internationally. we in the US live in 50 sovereign states who make up laws who give identifications, such as birth certificates, drivers licenses.

a national ID card would give the Feds too much power over the individual, which puts a burden on our privacy. this is very important to us as Americans. I dont want the US government keeping track of me and my rights to life, liberty(freedom) and pursuit of happiness without the tyranny of the government. the government is already too intrusive in our lives, with taxes, laws on our behavior and regulations on property.

groups like the ACLU on the Left and ACLJ on the right, and the supreme courts fight to save our rights to freedoms and privacy

 

Americans have always been severly independent to a fault. They value their freedom above all else. We are allowed more freedom in our personal lives than any other nationality. Even to the detrement of others (like hate/racists speech). I think it all can be traced to who colonized here, namely the Puritans. (If you have the time, read up on the Puritans and their role in the Inquisitions) A lot of our national mindset was inherited from our Puritan ancestors.

 

Nice post...but I would disagree with the statement that Americans have more freedom that ANY OTHER nationality...you should go to Scandinavia *Norway, Finland, Denmark, you would be amazed!) or even in the Netherlands!

The statement about this nation taking its "western" origins from the puritans is true...but somehow it goes against that same freedom statement, as the puritans were/are ppl who believe in a lot of restrictions and are extremely strict for instance with things like sexual freedom!

To finish, In the US they don`t need a national ID to track you and know all your whereabouts...they have you SSN that enables the federal govt to track you wherever u are in the US. and they can listen to ur phone, read ur e-mail, track ur credit card numbers, know your bank account numbers (IRS), censor what you can or can`t watch on prime-time on TV, etc...hmmm...freedom???

 

Here is a paragraph on the puritans that I took from Wikipedia...pasting the whole thing here would have been too much, but you can learn a little bit about them here; read the last three lines carefully:

In modern usage, the word puritan is often used as an informal pejorative for someone who has strict views on sexual morality, disapproves of recreation, and wishes to impose these beliefs on others.

None of these qualities were unique to Puritanism or universally characteristic of the Puritans themselves, whose moral views and ascetic tendencies were no more extreme than many other Protestant reformers of their time, and who were relatively tolerant of other faiths — at least in England.
The popular image is slightly more accurate as a description of Puritans in colonial America, who were among the most radical Puritans and whose social experiment took the form of a Calvinist theocracy.

 

I have been to Scandanavia and the Netherlands. (I have worked for a major airline for over 20 years now. I have traveled extensively and I have lived outside of the US.) While they have more vice freedoms (prostitution, drugs), they do not have the same freedoms with speech, guns, etc.

In Scandanavia and the Netherlands, can you freely say that the Holocaust was exagerated?

In Scandanavia and the Netherlands, can you walk into any town and purchase a hand gun?

The freedoms that we are allowed and disallowed are directly related to our Puritanical roots.

 

You are right...in Europe they are more "vice freedom"

and just calling it that shows your puritan origins

I agree that you can not buy a handgun just like that in Denmark or in France...but if you examine carefully, freedom of speech is way higher in Europe then it is here
On e proof is if u r famous here, there are so many things u can`t say without having to apologize to the whole nation the next day...usually without even feeling sorry about what u said...but bcoz that is politically correct!

Now on a more philosophical level, what about the freedom to "think for themselves"...but that`s another debate!

So I guess the statement that "Americans have more freedom than any other nationality" stays incorrect, simply bcoz there are different types of freedoms...right?

 

There really is no free country. To have freedom is to live WITHOUT life restrictions, and NO country on earth allows that. In our society, we tend to use the term 'freedom' very loosely, when in fact, this thing call 'freedom', is in no shape or form, defined the exact same way by everyone. There really is only free-will in any part of the world, but no freedom.

 

I completely disagree with you on them having more freedom of speech. The choice to apologize after making a statement or comment that could be offensive is just that...a choice. But in most of Europe, make certain offensive statements will get you hard time in prison. Completely different. In one country, you have the freedom to choose to apologize. In the other, your freedom is taken from you literally when they put you in jail.

 

It is an OPINION....mine. It is based on my life experiences and we have already been over that when you attempted to discredit them without knowing where I have traveled or lived.

Lets face it, you dont like my opinion so you keep trying to make inroads on how to discredit it. First you attempt to say I should visit certain countries (assuming since I am American, I MUST not be well traveled or have lived elsewhere), then you come back with some twisting of definitions.

Personal opinions are not "true or false". If you do not agree, you say "I disagree" usually followed by your reasoning or experiences. I have felt on other threads you intolerance for any opinion that differs from yours. So rather than keep on with this tit for tat, I will leave the forum for your opinion only. I am getting too old for this anyways. I just dont have the interest anymore.

 

Thank you all for your posts. I just don't understand, and I am not saying this to antagonize or anything...

Yes, your SSN is used to track you so there is already a system in place to know where you are, where you live etc. but it's also opening doors to fraud left and right. So why oppose a safer method such an ID card?

Anyone concerned about freedom and privacy, sorry but that boat is long gone and ever since the Patriot Act was approved I think it is a bit short sided to state that the US has the most freedom. I think it's the feeling of freedom you enjoy but is it factual freedom? I am not so sure about that.
Like Sardonic said there is no real Free country, everyone has a give and a take and I don't think it makes a lot of sense to compare democratic countries with each other because of that.

So you enjoy the freedom to buy a gun but maybe that makes me feel not so free anymore since I am scared to leave the house knowing anyone could have a gun and flip out.
Granted, one is the freedom given to you by your government and the other one is a perceived freedom, however at the end of the day both of these still affect our lives. [/b]

 

Flygirl...I think you are really, really, REALLY too sensitive

Of course I disagree with you...and I explained why
Where is the intolerance?

Twisting of definition? The definition I gave is from Wikipedia, not me

I wasn`t just assuming you hadn`t been in Europe out of the blue, but bcoz your statement seemed incorrect to me...

I lived in Europe for a long time too...please give me a recent example of someone who has been put in jail for saying something in Europe, that wouldn`t have made the same person go to jail here in the US!

In the US they have the choice to apologize??? the CHOICE??? they know that if they don`t, they are COOKED, BANNED, CURSED!! they have NO choice!!

I think you are the one who doesn`t like being critiqued...but tisn`t that what DISCUSSION is about??!

I disagreed with you...I wasn`t UNHAPPY with anything u said...but u are clearly unhappy with me disagreeing with U.

Also, I never got personal with you..but you mention my intolerance even on other threads? wow...I guess I`m the bad guy then...sorry!!!

 

I believe id cards take away a small portion of freedom. The united States government or any government for that matter should not be trusted with that much control. Many Americans have some what the same concept. The other thing is it would cost the American government money to make such an effort. Yes identities can be stolen. but who is to stop people from making fake id cards. There are already make fake driver licenses. We also have other substitutes.

 

Unfortunately they already have that much control. We can be tracked everywhere with social security no. There are cameras pretty much everythwere.

 

The National ID card implies centralized access to sensitive personal information, not absolute protection from theft and fraud.

With the National ID card, the majority of the street corner and black market identity thieves and fraudsters would soon be put out of their respective businesses.

That would only leave high-level organized crime and local and state governments with the ability to steal and create other peoples' identities with minimal fear of detection and punishment.

"freedom", "privacy", etc... rather vague and illusory concepts pertaining more to the person(s) using them.... much like "racism" and "stereotypes"...

 

amen flygirl on some of your points, i would rather personally have freedom to protect my home with a handgun or any other gun, have the freedom of religion, freedom of speech, from to assemble, freedom and liberty to choose any job, any school, group rather than have the freedom of "VICE"which we have here too(gambling, etc).

thanks