Prediction: Health Care Bill Will Not Pass

Lippy I can see my pov is wasted here because I'm a man and you're a woman and because of that maybe we can't look at this objectively. I've been advocating for male rights snce its always overlooked in my opinion. You see this as its a womans body so she has complete domain over the situation and because of that we're never going to an amicable agreement

 

When you engage in any kind of behavior (in this case it's sex), then you have to be prepared to deal with the pros and cons of engaging in that behavior (pregnancy and STDs).

 

I see and appreciate both sides of this argument. But I think if you make it clear going in that you don't want children, and a woman becomes pregnant, whether intentionally on her part or not, if she can choose whether to keep or abort without your input, a man should have the right to choose to have nothing to do with the child and shouldn't be held financially responsible. I cannot ever imagine making such a choice myself, however it's not my place to tell anyone else they have to be a father if that's not what they feel. If I was involved with someone who had made his desire not to have children known to me, and I unintentionally became pregnant, I wouldn't expect his involvement or support as he would have already made his wishes known to me. It seems fair to me that if I don't have to involve him in the decision to continue or terminate a pregnancy, that he should also have the option to be involved or not. If he doesn't intend to be involved in the child's life, then I think that should be respected and that includes his not paying support.

 

Even if both dont want to have kids, things unfortunately happen. You still can get pregant even if you use birth control/condom etc.
She then, didnt sign up for it either.. buts she should be "punished" but not the man? She will have her future "ruined" but he should not take any responsibility becase it was an accident.

He doesnt have to do the abortion, she does. She has to carry the child for months, he doesnt.

Ther are no great choices in these cases, but its a part of the design. You have to live with that if you decide to lay down. You are looking at the situation VERY one sided.

Andrae, I love ya, but it is really you who have to grow up.

 

how would you feel if your significant other told you that she didn't want to have any kids...no ifs. ands or buts...she then informed you she made you an appointment to have a vasectomy...it's your body, how does it make you feel for someone else to make that decision for you...just to juicy up this story let's say that the goverment passed legislation saying that wives could have their husbands fixed...this would protect the now wife you are with from any financial obligation to a child should you go out and cheat on her and get another woman pregnant

 

OK MAYBE IF I WRITE IN CAPS I CAN MAKE MY POINT CLEAR. I'M NOT SAYING SEXY DOESN'T HAVE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCES. I'M JUST ADVOCATING THAT IF IT TAKES TWO PEOPLE TO MAKE A BABY THEN ONE SHOULD NOT HAVE ALL THE DECISION MAKING POWER. IF THE WOMAN WANTS TO GO THROUGH WITH PREGNANCY AFTER A MAN MAKES IT KNOWN THAT HE WANTS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT FINE. BUT THE CHOICE TO BE INVOLVED OR NOT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO A MAN NOT JUST DEALING WITH THE WHIM OF A WOMAN.
Damn hate to admit it but Karma is right

 

Ok there's an obvious miscommunication just read what I responded to Bookie

 

There is an easy solution to your problem: get a vasectomy until you're ready to have kids. Those are reversible. There, andrae, I solved your problem and every other man's problem who doesn't want the responsibility of a child.

When I became pregnant, I realized that while I was pro-choice for other women, I wasn't pro-choice for myself, because I couldn't bear the emotional fallout of having an abortion. That lasts a lifetime.

 

no misunderstanding here...i am asking you how would you feel if someone other than yourself was making decisions about your body...you want to be involved in making a decision about a woman's body...shouldn't women be able to help men make decisions about their bodies

if women made decisions to protect their financial situation with their husbands and had control over a man having a vasectomy...elin woods if she is done having her children would be making that appointment for tiger...why should she as his wife and the mother of their kids suffer financially because he went out and got 12 women pregnant...

you want to make it all about dollars and cents...women pay the price when men make mistakes just as much as the reverse

 

You both made the decision. You both decided to have sex. That is when the decision is made not weeks later. Anytime you have sex a baby can result.

 

Absolutely agree Jordan, all the more reason for both parties to take responsibility to prevent pregnancy IMO. If you both agree you don't want children, why rely on condoms alone to prevent that? If I'm leaving it up to him to handle birth control, and he's doing his part but I still become pregnant, then that's on me at that point. If I was that concerned about it and didn't want to be a single mother, I'd be utilizing some form of birth control myself to make doubly sure that I was covered. One method may fail, but the chances of two methods failing concurrently are really, really slim.

 

FG I feel compelled to say to this to you because I honestly respect you and enjoy your post and want to make it clear I'm not attacking you in anyway sweetheart but I think my point keeps being missed because a lot of you with exception of Espy keep looking at this as either punishment or male dominance over a womans body. I'm just advocating choice. You're right a man doesn't have to carry a fetus or abort one but woman does but she gets to choose to. She chooses if she wants all parties lives to change. Again I go with Bookies point that it does take two to make a life but then why should one person have more say so than another. I'm not saying a woman should be forced into child bearing but if she chooses to I think a man should have the choice to be present. If I wanted a child and you didn't id have to respect and live with your choice to do what you want with your own life. Should I not be granted the same choice. Why does what I want matter less? I'm not trying to shy away from responsiblity but I don't think someone else should get to say whether or not I have one when she can decide for herself if she chooses to.

 

Apparently there is a misunderstanding because I never said anything about anyone having control over anyone elses body. I never said men should choose whether a womn carries a baby to term or not. I've argued against women making the choice not only for themselves but for the man too.

 

Ok we both decided to have sex so then why does what happen as a result left solely up to the woman since we both had sex. We both took precautions and made our feelings known about children but why does she get to decide whether or not I'll be a father.

 

Like a said, vasectomy is obviously the answer for you and others who feel like you.

Vasectomies are reversible.

Abortions and bearing a child are not.

 

Thank you for being my anchor tonight. If you weren't here id have lost my shit already. Even though you don't completely agree I love that you can at least see the logic in what I'm saying.

 

so you are telling me all you want to do is have a discussion with your pregnant significant other...you aren't trying to say that you should have a say in her decision? i know that you jump to the financial obligation of a baby (must be the accountant in you)

i get the impression you do want control...you just don't want to say in so many words that you want control...you only need control if the decision isn't in your favor...right?

 

Problem is that the equation doesnt add up.
It will be unfair for one of the partners either way, its unavoidable in these cases, dont you see that? Why should your unfortunate circumstance trumph the woman, who then would be equally screwed as you would be?

and its not a whim my dear. If it is, you are dealing w the wrong woman.Most women have a fairly clear idea or strong view of this up front. You need to figure that one out and protect yorself (I dont mean contraception here).

I think ESPYs thought is great, but its unfortunately not doable in many many cases/ Had it been me, I could easily bring up the child w out support and would if so was the case. I just get that for most women its not possible and as it took both to create that baby, well... see above.

Here is my solution (and one that I have subscribed to since I started having sex).

Have that discussion before you lay down. The "what ifs" scenarios. If you cant agree - then sex is off.. move on. Easy fix.
I have done that.

Yes, some women will not be honest, but the majority will - some might change their mind once they are pregnant (problem is you cant tell) but at the very least, you can minimize the chances.


I agree, its not fair - but the alternative is equally unfair.
Besides, the baby should not be punished. It didnt ask for it.

I exclude women with ulterior motives here as they are deplorable and I have no soft spot in my heart for them whatsoever.

I wish you as a man could have that discussion, if both agrees that IF, despite all efforts to not, the woman get pregnan and both agree an abortion is the only solution (or adoption) have a document and have it signed and held up in court IF the woman changes her mind... Then, she, if she decides to still have the child, should be held 100% accountable for monetary support.

Just a thought.

 

Ok Bookie convo over. You obviously misunderstood what I've been trying to say and I don't want any bad blood so let's agree to disagree love

 

No sane woman would sign such a document. Its like asking a woman to sign off on that you didn't rape her. Talk about a mood killer lol
Again I think you keep missing my point. No is saying a woman should be stuck or punished . I'm saying a man shouldn't be. And whim I meant your decision shouldn't be the only one that matters but as I see that you feel strongly about this again we have to agree to disagree FG