Random Conversation 2.0

You ever notice how societies and cultures have a golden age and enter a period of decline thereafter?

At the dawn of civilization Mesopotamia had all of the world-shattering ideas like written language (cuneiform) and codified laws (Hammurabi). You look at the region today (Iran, Iraq, etc.) and it's backwards as shit.

Italy had at least two golden eras with the Roman Empire and Renaissance era, but when was the last time you heard of a Leonardo or Galileo coming out of the boot? Likewise, there hasn't been an intellectual giant on the scale of a Plato or Aristotle for the Greeks in over 2,000 years.

I think of the historical march in relation to black people and (occasionally) Americans in general. Sometimes it seems like we're fine with not having modern geniuses (e.g. Ralph Ellison) represent us, or maybe we're incapable of producing people like that anymore?

 

Neil Degrass Tyson?
I think the bigger reason for not having notable geniuses anymore is because computers are doing the mental work people use to do and far more efficiently.
In the coming years this world is gonna look like shit straight out of every scifi joint we use to like as kids.

 

....that moment when ur watching flash or arrow and seeing the DC universe coming to life on tv, by the introduction of familiar faces and references to others.......


Come on Constantine!

 

Tyson is a proper scientist and affable media personality like Michio Kaku, but I think of them as popularizers rather than historical geniuses. Of course it is difficult to make breakthroughs in science, so I am grateful for anyone who attempts to have people think logically about the universe.

Yes automation provides a lot of the heavy lifting nowadays, but there are multiple things that a computer cannot do. Ask the best artificial intelligence to write a great novel or compose a brilliant symphony and it will not be equal to the task. There are also moral questions about the world (e.g. economic inequality) that computers cannot answer. You still need human creativity for the intangibles that cannot be broken down into binary code.

 

Personally I think they'll get there sooner than later. Economic inequality is easy to solve, the major problem is that those in control would choose death and despair before ever living fairly and equitably. There is more than enough for everyone single human being to have food shelter healthcare and entertainment, but the current system has everyone believing that the only way to have anything is to toil for it. The vast majority of jobs humans do are tedious and soul sucking but keep working hard and maybe you'll reach salvation.

 

When you crush the abilities of the general population to get a descent education, then the people who do get the education seem like geniuses.:smt018

You will not see that genius in modern time because it takes huge groups to lets say get to mars where back then the task was easy.

 

Perhaps but this all tangential to my initial concern about a decline of standards for brilliance and innovation in favor of what? It seems like a comfortable mediocrity; fat bodies and the latest from Marvel studios at your local multiplex.

 

Did he just...yep, I think he did...

 

When you start with nothing, then anything and everything you do can be considered brilliant. The Egyptians built the enormous pyramids. The Druids (likely) built Stonehenge. The Romans had running water.

There was nothing else to do back then. Everything they had to do to survive was an innovation.

Nowadays, it's not like that. We won't see innovations on such a grand scale anymore.

Our innovations are coming on the molecular scale now. They decoded the human genome. They regularly perform organ transplants. Artificial limb technology is progressing at a fast rate. Vaccinations (even to the point of eradicating deadly diseases like small pox). Airplanes. Automobiles. Those are all impressive and happened within the last 100 years or so.

Or the binary scale. Computer OS and the Internet and WWW, cross continental cables. Those are pretty impressive and also happened within the last 100 years or so.

Or on a grand scale, like machinery that can take humans to the depths of the oceans without killing them. Or sending satellites to study the moons of Jupiter and Saturn and beyond. Or landing on Mars. Those are all pretty impressive and happened within the last 75 years or so.

There are still major major major innovations happening. But they mostly aren't attributed to just one person (Bill Gates and Steve Jobs may be some of the few exceptions).

We now have teams of researchers accomplishing these feats because they wouldn't be accomplished without aid of several brilliant minds.

Just as I'm sure there were teams of researchers who figured out how to build the pyramids and Stonehenge. Their names just weren't recorded.

I will agree that our civilization, on a whole, is declining, though.

 

Bravo, all well-argued points. My bone of contention lies in the quality of modern innovation and you provided strong examples within recent times. Also, how readily we're able to cultivate genius talents as an ongoing standard of future excellence.

 

As a lone voice out on a limb---, I have to decent by saying that I attribute the overall decline in civilization to a great apostasy over the last 150 years. ...

 

slavery?

 

He means lack of faith. Apostasy means the absence of faith, basically.

 

Interesting how his lack of faith time line correlates with lack of slavery. If anything this is a more civilized society now than 150+ years ago. There has also been plenty of innovation in the past 150 years.

 

Uh yeah I'd rather live now as a blackman rather than 150 years ago

 

Hell yeah, they just recently premiered future upgrades to my favorite car, the Tesla Model S, Model D wil now have a lite version of Autopilot!!! Can change lanes and come to complete stop when a stopped car is detected, fuck #X, we all textin and driving now.

 

LOL
I have to be honest, I am so tired of being politically correct around uber-religous people. I very rarely tell anyone my personal beliefs to avoid damaging their sensitivities. And really, I'm sick of pussy-footing around the subject. You want to believe in a magical, invisible, vindictive, murderous, angry being - go right ahead. Just stop pushing your personal stuff onto me and trying to affect my life with your beliefs. I respect your space, respect mine dammit.

 

Chill mama

:freehug:

 

I agree that what you believe is your own business and I wouldn't force my beliefs on other people.

But there is one thing that really bothers me about atheists, it's the stuff in bold.

I'm in no way trying to pick a fight, but I do think that isn't any better than what atheists claim believers do to them.