Can someone tell me why teachers unions want to deny parents and their children the choice to send their children to any school of their choice. If the politicians and the teachers in those unions can send their children to private schools, then why not everyone else? I hear the District of Columbia will deny parents in that city that right due to a provision snuck into the stimulus bill. President Obama where are you on this issue?
It is interesting. Many on the Left don't seem to mind using taxpayer money for everything under the sun. But when it comes to charter schools, they're totally opposed.
I don't think there is any restriction from using private schools for anyone, but I don't think it is fair to expect the govt to pay for it. The pols and teachers you refer to pay tuition with their own money from their salaries. If you want to send your kids to a private school, come up with the cash. I do support school choice insofar as a kid shouldn't be forced to attend a failing public school, and have the option of attending a different public school.
I agree the government should not be footing the bill for parents to send their children to private school. If you have the income to send your child then that is your right to do so. I do believe that those parents who want to home school their children should have the right to do so. I believe religious organizations that provide educational resources for private schooling should do so. Charter schools, magnet schools should be provided to give parents options. That is the issue here "options" and not be forced by the teachers unions, and the politicians that depend on their vote to lock your child in a failing school with teachers who cannot teach and school administrators who are only concern about their salaries. I support President Obama's call for merit pay for outstanding teachers in which there are still many in the public school system to weed out the bad teachers. Bad teachers should be fired and find another job not teaching and damaging our children.
I'm going to assume that you don't know any actual teachers, or anything about the way public education works, and are simply regurgitating what you see on television. Let me tell you about our schools. Teacher's Unions Some states have teachers' unions, and some don't. My mother is a teacher in the state of Ohio, and I am a teacher in Georgia. Because Georgia is a "right to work" state (no unions), I have fewer rights than my mother does as a teacher. I am often asked to do extra jobs or duties without pay (i.e. yearbook, school play, newspaper) while in Ohio, an administrator wouldn't dream of asking such a thing. I do pay dues for a teacher "organization". The only purpose of this organization is to give me professional insurance and an attorney, should I need one. The last notable thing my teacher organization did was change our pay schedule so we are paid twice a month instead of once a month (which fucking sucked, by the way). Teachers are rarely fired in my district, but this has little to do with unions. We sign a yearly contract, and the district prefers to allow teachers to ride out the rest of the year and not re-hire them because firing them would be more costly. "Failing" schools The town I work in, Savannah, is a great example of the extremes of successful and failing schools. No Child Left Behind (NCLB) has a formula for schools, called Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP). Student attendance, test scores, and graduation rates all factor into AYP. I work at a school that has not met AYP for two years. The school population is 99% African-American, is a Title 1 school (most students are poor/qualify for free lunch), and has the highest percentage of students who receive special education services in the county. Not more than five miles away is another high school with 40% African-American students, does not qualify for title 1 status, and has consistently met AYP since NCLB began. When you compare the success/failure of these schools, the make-up of the students body hardly seems comparable from one school the the next. We have attendance issues in my school, which is an issue for making AYP. I have students who miss class all of the time because of domestic issues, drug issues, childcare issues, or they simply do not want to come. Graduation rates are low due to drop out rates. Our freshman class is always the largest class in the school but goes down year by year due to drop-outs. We currently have a freshman class of about 600, and a senior class of a little less than 200. Testing scores greatly hurt our chances of making AYP. I get twelfth grade students who are nearly illiterate who have parents who are illiterate. If you think about it, our attendance problem and test scores go hand-in-hand. How can you perform well on a test if you miss so much school? "Bad" teachers This is the interpretation in the media I despise the most. After what I described above, can you see why merit pay may be unfair? It is hard to be a teacher in a struggling school. This year, two white female teachers were shoved down black male students. Our students fight with each other almost every day. There are more white teachers than black teachers, and more female than male teachers. Our school has a high turnover rate for teachers because if you can't establish a good rapport with the kids, you are fucked, and it is nearly impossible to teach. I was friends with a white French teacher who was a fabulous teacher. The problem was, the kids didn't respect her because she was so soft spoken, and she had never dealt with high school students who were not disciplined. She left at the end of the year, went to a magnate school and had a much better time. She told me she was able to accomplish so much more with her students. School Options Students in our school have the option to attend other schools within the county because we have not made AYP. There was a mass exodus of our students and another high school's students to other local schools. The other schools are now overcrowded, and are experiencing the same behavioral/attendance issues that we have for years. A local politician supports vouchers for private schools, but he has personal relationships with several of the schools' headmasters. Private schools also are not held to the same AYP standards, so students leaving a failing school could actually be attending a school that is worse because teachers in private schools don't have to hold professional licences or certificates, and there is no national or state-wide curriculum they must uphold. The charter schools in Cleveland, Ohio are often run by people with no background in education, who truly are there to make a quick buck. There were a few charter school scams that made the news in Cleveland. I hope I've begun to open your eyes to the "real" issues in American education.
The left?...youre confused, because the left isnt the problem? So when government money is used to help the poor and underprivileged, its wasteful and epidemic of a welfare state...but the right doesnt mind when government money is given to rich people who want the government to subsidize their children's private school tuitioin...even tho they could go to a public school for free?
Csbean, I want to take each point you made and expand further, but time is not on my side right now. Let me say this I admit at the present time I do not know anyone in the public school system at this time. If I did my feelings would remain the same. I have no issue with the good teachers who are against all odds doing the best they can do. I have known teachers in the past who went out of their way to help me. It's the bad teachers who need to be removed from the system. My current teachers in at the private technical school that I attend are the best. They represent to me the model teachers we need today in our public schools. For years I have tried to watch all of the media documentaries and special reports on this issue on all of the alphabet channels ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, FOX and C-PAN which last year had a full week devoted to this topic of American Education. We are competing with the world. If this is not made right then this country is doomed for failure. Education is the key. Let me say finally, you are indeed passionate about this issue and I respect that. My hat off to you Lady. I will get back with you on those points you made soon.
+ If we put as much time and energy in paying our good teachers more than some damn sports athlete then we would have a better country.
Slow your roll there, Sharpton. When billions and billions of dollars of govt. money is used to remedy a problem, and the problem not only does not decrease, but it gets worse, and yet more and more money goes to it, I call that wasteful. And I wouldn't call the people who use charter schools "rich" by any means. Many, if not most of them, are working class/working poor. But I guess you have to denigrate them one way or another. Why don't you come to Cleveland or Akron, Ohio and see who's using charter schools? They're definitely not wealthy people. I went to public schools my whole life and I want them to do well. but if they're not getting the job done, parents and kids need another option
...yeah, this is my third post in a row, but people spouting misinformation about our educational system really pisses me off. BlackTiger...you ever notice how education is always the first thing cut?...did you ever consider becoming a teacher out of college and starting off at 30k a year?...why is it that the capitalist system (more money allows you to get better tools to do the job better) works for everything except education?...you ever hear of a educational budget being increased?... Teachers do more for less more than any other professional. Hell, at the meger salary they earn, we are lucky...LUCKY that there are people who are willing to overlook so much for the profession that they love. Are there bad teachers out there...hell yes! But there are a ton of good one out there too! And have you ever heard "you get what you pay for?" Well if the government wants a better selection of people to choose from as teachers, then it should increase teacher's salaries enough so that more college students consider education as a field of study! Our government has never been committed to public education (not in my lifetime, anyway) and its insane to think its going to work properly...or even adequately without a major investment on the part of our government and our citizens.
First of all, the money that goes into public schools isnt used to remedy the problem...its just used as a band-aid. Second...our government has continually been decreasing educational funding...not increasing it. Third..yes there are alot of working class people who use charter schools, but they arent the one pushing for vouchers with no limit on parents income...its the rich who are. (Yeah, being called rich is soo insulting...) And if a parent wants other options for their kids, thats fine...as long as its on their own dime!
I'm speaking more to government programs in general, not to one specific program Well, education is a responsibility of the states, not the federal govenment. There shouldn't be any federal money going to education I'm sure there are higher income people who want more government money for charter schools. I'm not denying that. But if there were only lower income parents calling for more govt. money for charter schools, would you still oppose it? And why did you call them rich if you weren't trying to insult them? You did that. Wealthy people fork over a much higher percentage of their income to the govt. than those of us who are not. No wonder they hide their money in Switzerland and the Caymans. I would too if I had to give up almost 40% of what I make And if I had said what you said, what I have put in bold, you would call me heartless and uncaring
Jellybird, Dex: there is a difference between private schools and charter schools. Private schools are schools that often devote themselves to one denomination or another, such as a Catholic school. Boarding schools would also fall under the category of private schools. A common stereotype is that the rich send their children to private schools (and a lot of them do), and many want their school districts to develop a voucher program to ease the cost of tuition. Charter schools are technically public schools, but they are privately operated. They receive state/federal funding like public schools. The reason many local school districts do not care for charter schools is because each student that attends a certain school carries a certain amount of money with them. When they elect to attend a charter school, they take that money with them. There is no tuition to attend a charter schools like there is with a private school. Both charter schools and traditional public schools are monitored by the government, but charter schools incur less regulation. Because they have less regulation, they are more lax in who they hire (non-certificated teachers) and they may base instruction on one teacher overseeing students using computer programs to learn core subjects (such as White Hat/Hope academy in Cleve/Akron). Other issues with charter schools include fraud on the part of founders, such as falsely reporting the number of special ed students to receive increased funding, not giving services to students who are genuinely classified as special ed, and cutting corners in terms of the schools in which students are housed to increase profits.
I couldn't agree more with your notion of pay. Compared to the rest of the world, the U.S. struggles greatly with math and science. The state of Georgia graduated only one education teacher whose area of concentration was physics. Do you know why? Anyone who is that gifted can find a job that pays much better in the field of physics. As for our performance compared with the rest of the world, yes, we have lower test scores than students in other countries. What many reports fail to mention, is that many of the countries we compete with do not educate and account for every child that is born on their soil. Have you ever wondered what exactly the term "No Child Left Behind" means? In the U.S., our goal is to educate EVERYONE, and we test EVERYONE (including those with learning disabilities). We are unfairly compared to some Asiatic countries who only educate the priviledged. When people say America is getting dumber because our test scores are getting lower, that's not the whole truth. Since we've beefed up on students dropping out, there are more teens in school who do not want to be there, thus more teens who do poorly on standardized tests.
Youre whining, Dex. Youre not niave enough to believe that the federal government isnt the ones controlling education? Federal government subsidies control almost everything thats offered by states...and those states would eat crow before giving up a penny of that money. Rich people dont pay anything close to 40%..thats just the top tax bracket. And yes...im strictly opposed to vouchers because they dont make sense. There arent enough vouchers for all the kids who go to underacheiving schools. And with all the money they spend on vouchers...they could just...fix the underacheiving schools!
CS I respect you for being a teacher (thank you), but I hope you don't think only educators can have a valid opinion on this issue. If my children attended a school like yours I would either homeschool or move them to a different school. Most likely homeschool, which we have done before. Some ask what would happen to a school like yours if the good students all leave? If the answer is the school shuts down, I have to think maybe that is the best option. Hopefully teachers like you will end up in a better environment and the other students will be dispersed to other schools. These schools will be burdened at first, but instead of pouring money into the failed school perhaps resources could be shifted accordingly. Unfortunately, some students (dropouts, drug addicts, etc) will continue to fail, but I think that problem is much larger than the education system (family breakdown in the black community and in general, e.g.).
