Something that bugs me about Obama's 'black' credentials...

Cool...:mrgreen:

Guys, I don't mind the abundance of questions asking who I am to be casting doubt; what I mind is the comparative scarcity of comments about the thread topic itself. The ratio between the them is close to ten to nothing in the wrong way, a pretty lousy imbalance for a website with dozens of intelligent black guys posting daily. But them's the dice we roll.

 

Nice video. I'm sure if you apologize nicely, your father will let you back in his house.

 

Jaybee, I've been disturbed by this thread, and why you felt like you needed to voice this opinion here. I know that whenever someone that isn't a black man or white woman joins this forum, I always wonder if there is an ulterior motive. I'm not saying that your intentions weren't honorable, but it did make me cringe when I read it. I also understand why people have been hesitant to respond to it.

I don't plan to address every point in this post, but I feel the need to put my two cents in. Regardless of Obama's white upbringing and his Harvard law degree, when he walks out the door in the morning, he is still a black man. A black man that is subject to all the prejudices and racism that exists. So, what makes you think that he doesn't understand the pains of being a black person in America? Does the fact that he was raised by his white mother and has an ivy league education take away his 'blackness' even though he is clearly viewed as a black person? I know white mothers in real life and on this board that go to great lengths to teach their biracial children about both sides of their heritage because they want their children to know their history, where they came from, and want them to know the injustices that are part of their past.

Regardless of how many black men that I date, I will NEVER truly know what it is like to to a black person in American. When I walk out the door alone, I'm not subject to racial profiling and racism. However, as a sympathetic human being, I can feel someone else's pain and struggles in life. I may not know it first hand, but it doesn't mean that I can't sympathize with the sufferings that other people go through. As a woman in the business world, I've had to work twice as hard as some of my other male collegues to prove that I can do the job just as well if not better than they can. I know what it's liked to be unfairly judged on a physical trait that I have no control over, and it increases my sensitivity to people in similar situations. I think to some degree that I can feel some of their pain.

As an outsider looking in, I don't see how you can possibly know what Obama feels and what he truly has been through in his life. Therefore, to question his 'black credentials' as you put it is very unfair to him and to any other black person that has a white, ivy-league upbringing. Until you walk a mile in his shoes, I don't feel you are in a position to judge or question that.

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GirlieGirl74 again.

 

I was as surprised that YOU wrote this, GG, as you were disturbed....I don't know how detailed or sparse an answer you want, if any at all, but here goes.

If I didn't make the point abundantly clear in my opening post, let me do so now; he hasn't felt anywhere near the same pain as felt by most black people and this is by his own frequent admission. Could he be lying? Well, I don't trust politicians in general, although he does seem trustworthier than most, but that's just my gut instinct.

Being raised by a white mother certainly diluted his black personality characteristics, most definitely. Ivy League, no. I simply said I doubted he would have reached the League had his circumstances been less conducive. I noticed you used the word 'viewed', and not 'is'. I myself have 3 cousins who were raised by the same white mother, two are half-caste and the other is a full-blooded Indian, all 3 are lacking, to differing degrees, in their cultural heritage.

I don't claim to KNOW what he feels; what I can tell you is, that as a man of an ethnic minority in another majority-white country, it is damn painful being raised by parents who either don't understand their enviroment (and the system which governs it), or resent it, or both.

That is only the half of it; my parents came here WILLINGLY, incidentally fromt exactly the same country Obama's father was from, Kenya. Their parents came to East Africa willingly before them. I don't think you read, or if you did, I'm sure you didn't mull over the part of my post where I mentioned the mental cross-generational scars from Slavery. We Indians don't have them; the same enterprising spirit that allowed us to become wealthy from opening corner shops is that same spirit which drove the Korean-Americans in much the same direction, so that within a generation, we moved from being workers to being employers.

Barack not only has the enormous difference from (and advantage over) Black Americans, of parents who don't know the bitterness that filtered down from Slavery, he also has had TWO differences/advantages over/to myself; a white mother who knew the ropes, and no childhood poverty. Dad turned up in this country with 20p or so in his pocket.

So, no, I don't question Obama's African DNA. I VERY much question his understanding of Black America's pain. He knows as much about their agonies as I do about how it hurts giving birth.

You talked about me walking a mile in his shoes? I have a better idea. Let Barack spend a month on welfare in Compton.

Hope I didn't just blow a lovely, budding online friendship, GG, but if I did, sorry, really. You still have some rep coming for easily the best reply in this thread, but I don't shirk from or make compromises on the truth.

 

While African Americans still face unique challenges due to slavery and other historical/present day inequities, poverty is NOT the norm for African Americans, and Black wealth and ownership are in fact growing at record levels.

You seem to be under the impression that there is only one "Black experience" in this country, there are multiple experiences, hell from a historical perspective, there have been free Black people from day one in this country and some of them even owned white indentured servants. The point I am making Jaybee is that there is not only *one* way to be Black, and while there are some commonalities, everyone's experience will differ.

 

Totally inappropriate.

And, also, if you're looking for responses to your questions and opinions (not the truth), then you should be willing to accept what people tell you, especially when those very people are the ones you are referencing and actually have an idea of the situation.

 

Worthless, every single word.

And for your information dumbass, blacks have earned their entry into America's elite universities for over a century now. W.E.B. Du Bois, the first African-American to earn a PhD from Harvard, achieved that feat in 1895.

Your attribution of Obama's ascension to past and current positions as being indicative of a disconnect between himself and the African-American experience only shows that you don't know shit about either.

 

:smt042

 

+1

if you got the small, teeny-tiny wet balls to leave a neg rep over the internet, you should have the balls to leave your handle with it.

 

E-thugs are too hardcore for names.

 

To YOU, possibly. I'm well aware of the diversity of lifestyles and experiences in the black community. I've done business with Black Americans over here, and you don't cross the Atlantic for business unless you have financial substance to you. I don't know how you got your impression, but it's false, rest assured.

Firstly, WHAT is inappropriate?

So, you're telling me that I'm not recounting the truth, merely opinions and questions, but that I should willingly accept what the respondants have claimed? So far, almost all the replies have been about me, not Obama. When people around here want to talk about Obama's black heritage, I'll digest that information thoroughly. However, I'm the expert on ME, thanks. You want to talk about me, you email me.

Both of you - sorry if I've just struck you as aggressive, but I'm not in the habit of defending myself meekly, and that because I resent having to defend myself AT ALL. I wrote a perfectly well reasoned and detailed analysis, and expected this thread to have yielded far more light and far less heat, as it has elsewhere. That said, the rest of the Politics subsite isn't much better, which is a shame as this is a blot on an otherwise great website with a lot of fertile fields growing a lot of food for thought. Clearly I planted a pretty good seed in some shitty soil.

Bookie, give this 24 hours and, if you're willing, just delete it all. Or you can let it stand, but unless someone actually wishes to discuss OBAMA, I'll be posting in the Love (Not War!!) sections....

 

nice sig line

 

"two are half-caste and the other is a full-blooded Indian"

^
The part I originally highlighted. It's 2009.

I don't doubt it, and no I don't - thanks anyway.
Several people on here have now responded by saying that they do not agree with you.

You stated...
"but I don't shirk from or make compromises on the truth"

What you have stated is not the truth, but your own opinion and questions, which other people have disagreed with.

RE: You want to discuss Obama? I don't know the man. I don't know what his experience is. I am not American and I am not a black man. It would be ridiculous of me to make bold assumptions about the reasoning behind anything to do with him. As Roacha said, perhaps you would find some insight in his books. As Loki said - there is no single "black American" experience that he could differ from. As Saty said - he's hardly the first black man to be highly successful and educated.

Perhaps the legacy from slavery isn't inbuilt in every "African American" person, but integrated within society such that any "black" person is impacted by it? If Obama walked down the street and wasn't famous as he is, no-one would know that he wasn't a descendant of a slave, nor would they probably care.

Additionally, I doubt that any person who has never been exposed to that type of neighbourhood before would survive well on welfare in Compton. You go and give it a try, then let us know how you got on. Race and heritage has nothing to do with it.

If I were to make a bold assessment of the Indian experience growing up in the UK, then proceeded to argue against what you said, that would be slightly absurd since it could only be that you know it better than I do.

No - I don't think you're aggressive, nor was I. I think you are failing to see the answers for what they are because you desire only for someone to agree with and justify your point. There will always be people who are uncreative and attack the person, not the point. If indeed you so badly want discourse, then search through the useless posts to find your answers.

 

Jaybee why do you want this thread deleted? You posted something controversial. Alot of people don't agree with you. If you can't handle the feedback then don't post such things.


GG great post.

 

The Ultra Left's method attack until the person submits. Partisan bullying.

 

That's nonsense.

Since you've been a member of this site, you've never talked about WW/BM relationships. Never talked about your experiences with them. You've never given any insight whatsoever into interracial realtionships.

Are you even a BM???

Every single post is attacking 'the Left'.

You're making yourself out to be a ...

Why are you even here???