The Jena Six

Well said WhiteSheDevil. And thanks for the compliment.

I really took issue with what Whitlock said in the Rutgers incident (esp. his inference that Coach Stringer was using the Imus debacle as a recruiting
tool for the school).

Stringer was dealing with a group of young ladies that were suffering greatly at the time. Whitlock, in his response to this, showed less sensitivity than a henchman.

And, you are right. The specific, step by step process of what happened in Jena misses the point: Jena is still living as if this were 1971 as opposed to 2007.

Off topic: There is one thing this incident did made very clear to me, however. Our adventure in Iraq is likely doomed to failure. If we cannot, after all of these many years, fix the racial divide that handicaps much of our own country, how will we ever be able to fix the sectarian divisions that threaten a country we no very little about?

Thanks again for your input, young lady.

 

When i saw the name "Jason Whitlock," that column instantly lost credibility to me. The guy is a joke. Always has been. I used to read some of his columns for the Kansas City Star, and he almost ALWAYS puts a negative spin on stories. His work is crap, and i'll never read anything he writes ever again. Just my 2 cents.

 

I agree, knca, we'll probably never know the whole story. But like shedevil said, light is getting shone (shined?, I am grammatically challenged today!) on an important issue, and that is a victory in itself.

 

You people think i'm kidding when i always tell you i'd rather live in Panama than in the South.

 

HA! LaydeezManCris! It is good to know I am not the only one who feels that way!

BronzeSaint, unbelievable....but at the same time so completely believable that it's scary. And the town doesn't want the rap of being portrayed as racist, yawn, ok, guess they need to have an ethnic cleanse of all the inbred redneck trash! *J/K, kind of...wink*

Those hate groups scare the beejesus outta me, they are off the rack! Almost like militant Muslims in their fervor. They have no sense, like rabid dogs.

 

bronzesaint

Personally I don't know exactly what happened in Jena, La nor does anyone on this board all I offered was another POV and the possibility that the entire story was not told or somewhat told or pieces were missing. I think you many here missed some of the main points Whitlock is making, one of them being why do we care about Mychal Bell now that he's in jail? Why wasn't something done to stop his downward spiral, by us or his parents, oh yeah pops wasn't around.

If it's true I didn't know Bell was brought before the court for the third time on assault charges in a two-year span in front of Reed Walters. If I was a prosecutor I would have showed little sympathy for him. Broznesaint how would you feel if your son or daughter was assaulted by Bell only for him to get in trouble again and instead of jail time he's let go again?

Re-read what Whitlock stating because he's not omitting blame to certain parties (school board for instance) but ultimately what he's trying to say is and these are his words and it for us black and white people we remain deeply locked in denial about the path we need to travel today for true American liberation, equality and power in the new millennium

Do a search in your area about Big Brothers & Sisters and I'd bet it's mostly us, black men. I am not going to go into the Rutgers thing because this is about Jena, but open a thread on it and I will post on it...

 

WhiteSheDevil, I'm going back to my idea of only living and working in places that have some degree of acceptance (to the greatest extent I can).

The problem with places like Jena is that, if you stay there too long, you start acting a little like them.

I'm thousands of miles away from there (thank God) and, yet, I feel depressed when I think of the place even from my vantage points of Pennsylvania and California.

Can you imagine living in Jena???? Spending every single second of your life ducking the klan???

I'm not sure you can ever really change a place like that. You can only choose to live among people that love more than they hate (which is why I'm retiring from this thread).

 

You know...I've tried to reserve my opinions on this. I mean I'm fully aware that it's just impossible to know the truth from what little we see in the media. I've seen all too often where things are just straight out lies in what is reported and how it is reported. People can be so quick to judge based on shotty reporting...I think about the mom and teen who were interviewed (one of the 6) who were talking about how he wasn't even involved in the beating.

Maybe partly I've been quiet about some of this because I'm emotional about it and it's not a very easy topic for me to separate out of.

I have my own personal thoughts about some of the people who have gotten involved in all this and their reasons for doing so. I'm not going to get into all that...I think there have been some who have already expressed that. I do have some of the same questions as others here have expressed.

I for one will certainly not support the actions of the teens. However, the punishments have certainly not fit the crimes. I'm not going to be making excuses for any of the behavior - I find it all to be appalling. And again...I just don't have all the facts. But to think that it's ok for a child to be sitting in jail having God only knows what happening to him for 9 months without any possibility of release on bail...I'm sorry but that's criminal. It certainly does not go along with innocent until proven guilty...these children have not had their day in court. And you know this might be a really stupid thing to bring up but if they were CHILDREN when this happened, why have their names and photos been released - I guess because they are being tried as adults? I don't get how anyone can justify that Bell was not given the possibility of release with bail. Whether this is the 2nd or 3rd incident in his young life (I have read conflicting reports on this)

Look, I'm all for people taking responsibility for their actions and having to deal with the consequences. Absolutely, they shouldn't have done what they did. But it's already a done deal...it's been tried and convicted yet no one has had their time in court. That's just not ok.

I've talked with some who feel that they just want this to stop and to go away. That there are those who are blowing it way out of proportion and that they as black men are going to get to deal with the fall out from this. Ok I can't argue with any of that...I'm not a black man. I am a white woman with a black child, who happens to love black men, and more specifically loves one particular black man who is doing what he can to help in Jena. Some of the most important people in my life happen to be black men (and yes there are a couple who read and/or participate on this board) and yes I'm very concerned about what all this will mean for them...and I can certainly understand the wanting of it all to go away...but it's not going to all just go away.

Maybe it's that I'm hormonal, maybe it's that I'm passionate as a mother...but hell yah this is getting scary and whether we want to think that it shouldn't be made out to be such a big Fing deal or not...it is. The train is already speeding down the track.

I'll tell you what...I can remember very clearly many years ago sitting across the table from a young woman telling me about how she had met one of the Grand Dragons from the KKK and she was going on about the things he said and how he was. It was a very chilling conversation to watch and see how someone who seemed so bright could be actually spouting how reasonable and informative this man was. There is all sorts of shit that goes on out there...to think it doesn't is just to be blind.

And here's the thing...we know what we read...that's only a fraction of what really goes on. I think most of the people on here are smart enough to realize that for every loud mouth white supremacist there are many more who are quietly doing their damage.

And while I am very appreciative that I live where I do right now and I can try to think it doesn't affect us because it's not outwardly in our face...I'm not so naive. It's sortof like thinking that we aren't at war right now because it's not in our face at any given moment. But let me assure you for those who have family members involved...it's very clear. And every bit of it effects every one of us...whether we want to believe that or not.

And to be honest...We got a little glimpse of it in my cushie suburban California neighborhood late last night when one of our neighbors decided to take issue with my son and his friends.

I think the truth is that so many of us have a tough time even comprehending that such ways of thinking and doing things still exist in the U.S. We just can't fathom that it's happening. I mean we can get it on a mental level and discuss it. But to really get the impact of what's going on and how it truly can and will effect us...that's a tough one to really get our heads around. We want it all to go away. But it's not going to all go away.

 

Ah but my very dear friend Bronze....

We can't fool ourselves. Absolutely things are different in different areas...but to think it's not existing where we are - you know better than that. Certainly there is more good than bad...hopefully more love than hate and we do have some security (no matter how shallow) that there are certain laws in place to help with hate crimes and such.

But just an interesting little tidbit that I learned very recently about where I live. It happens to have been a huge area for the KKK at one point in time. Yep right here in beautiful California suburbia. Now most wouldn't know about this history unless they really went out of their way to do some digging. But let me tell you....I am not stupid enough to think that there aren't still some lingering out there. Maybe we don't see their activities and actions clearly...but they are there. So maybe, just maybe....we really are all ducking the Klan and not even knowing it.

I understand what you are saying. I realize that part of my unexplained sadness over the past days has been about this very thing. And to some degree I tried to dismiss it or discount it. I mean come on...I'm in California...Jena is a world away. I'm not dealing with this in my face....but is that really the case? Like it or not - it absolutely impacts us.

With this seemingly meaningless stupid little incident last night at my home...I have come to realize that maybe we do need to look past the surface of things sometimes. I have tried not to be hypersensitive about things...tried not to see everything as a racial issue or attack. But you know...sometimes it's just what it is.

And whether the issues in Jena started out to be racially motivated or not...it certainly has become a huge racial issue. And I can't imagine that going away.

I can completely understand your wanting to retire from this thread. But you see...I think it's so very important for people to stay engaged...even if it's simply at the level of awareness and conversation. I firmly believe that it makes a difference.

 

Malik, I appreciate your desire for greater Black empowerment and for Black people to take greater responsibility for their actions. As someone that has not had a single brush with the law (which, unfortunately has it's price as I got a summons in the mail for jury duty...which is a royal pain in the butt with everything I have to do) and has never once experimented with drugs, I agree with your sentiment.

The problem with Whitlock in this case is his very focus on just one of the kids accused. From what I understand, the other five were also accused of murder despite not having any criminal past that I'm aware of.

Whitlock's emphasis on just Mychal Bell is way too narrow. You had a Black student beaten up by a group of White students at a party just prior to the the incident in question.

What were the white students charged with? One student out of the entire group was charged with battery.

You had one of the White students pulling a shotgun on the Black students, again, just prior to the crime in question. Somehow, the Black students wrestled the gun away from the White student.

What did Jena law enforcement do? Charged the white student with nothing while charging the black students (the ones that had a shotgun pointed at them) with stealing the rifle.

Whitlock, in my opinion, is asking these kids and their parents to be superhuman; to ignore all insults and act like Ghandi. There is only one Ghandi.

Bell is just one of the six! What about the other five?! Whitlock may even be correct that Bell could have been parented a little better. But, that is not what this story is about at all.

This is about unequal law enforcement; a justice system that is so porous that even President Bush has Washington monitoring the entire situation. He's not doing so cause he's worried that Bell will destroy Jena.

Today, the Chicago Tribune is at it again with a study showing that schools punish African-American children far worse for lesser offenses than their White counterparts.

Barack Obama talks about "a broken judicial system." But, if you ask Whitlock, he would say that Black kids bring this kind lunacy into their lives by their behavior...that if, they would stop acting like kids and grew up much faster than normal, NONE OF THIS WOULD HAPPEN!

Again, Malik, nothing personal. And Jason Whitlock does some good things (he certainly keeps Kansas City restaurants open).

I just think he missed the real story here. We, as a nation, need to stop holding Black people to a higher standard in school, in the workplace, when asking for a loan, etc.

Whitlock differs with me. That's ok.

Anyway, I may answer one more question on this subject. Then, I'm retiring from this thread.

Sorry if I offended you or anyone on here. That was not my intention.

 

All true KN. But, this is another level.

A Mayor thanking the klan? Nooses hanging from "the white tree" in San Francisco? African-American children being charged with murder after a high school fist fight in the Bay Area?

Think back to your childhood in Sactown. Can you ever recall several nooses hanging from a tree reserved for the White kids?

AND, remember, THIS IS 2007!!! Kids in the rest of America don't care about skin color at all, esp. when dating.

I know there was a klan presence in Sacramento at one time. But, lets be honest: JUST TALKING HYPOTHETICALLY HERE...JUST AS AN EXAMPLE...Not saying we will ever do this.

If we, somehow, dumped our lovers and started seriously dating and got so hot and heavy that we ended up having sex in a car in a very public place, you know as well as I that no one is really going to care about our ethnicities in Berkeley...law enforcement may not even stop us...some of them might even try to watch the show or maybe tape it to show other cops.

Heck, there is likely an interracial couple doing just that at UC Berkeley as we speak.

The same can be said (to a far lesser degree) for parts of Philly.

If we did this in Jena, we'd get locked up for 24 months if we were lucky to get paroled.

 

KN, I'll get with you later to learn more about the details of this. Sorry to hear...hope you're ok.

 

Ok point well taken.

Definitely a whole different level of craziness going on out there. I'm certainly not going to argue against that!

I'm not going to go into things that I witnessed in the suburbs surrounding Sacramento....unfortunately there was much more there than one may think and there are reasons that some of the laws that now exist do. They came from different activity that was prevelant in not too many years past. But I'd like to think that much has changed in the 30 some odd years since then. I'd like to think that but just a couple of years ago I was living in the foothills and there were all sorts of busts for craziness going on up there. The difference is that there are laws protecting people from the supremacists. Actually I was talking more about the central valley in the mess of KKK here too - but that is not of much matter...they are definitely alive and prospering here!

Certainly I would agree with some of your comments about the bay and Sacramento. Heck years ago I did have a lover who was into all sorts of interesting public displays...even at the capital. Never caught but there was one time when we were sitting at the river and questioned pretty heavily. Definitely not the same as Jena!

As for any hypothetical conversation about you and I...while that may bring up all sorts of interesting images, :lol: that's a conversation for a different time and place

Certainly Jena is in a time warp.

But don't miss my point here. I just feel that it's something we need to stay involved in. I totally get the idea that we would rather turn our back and stick to our own more evolved (hopefully) environments. And hope that it all just dies out quickly. But Jena is part of our country...like it or not. And I know you well enough to know that you operate at a much higher level than self, or even relationship, or close community. Of course this all is getting to you. You are a man of integrity and honor....it's not ok with you that this is going on in your country. I definitely think we need to keep things in perspective and not allow this to overtake everything in our lives. But I think it's a damned important issue and bright, thoughtful, people of integrity need to do what we can to help with these things.

(Ok excuse my typing mess these days...no excuses just a MESS!)

 

bronzesaint

While I continue to disagree with you I have not been offended and I hope you do not retire from the conversation because we are only going to get through this, black folk and white through dialogue and interaction...

With that stated, this is constructive criticism my opinion you cheapen the value of your words and lose some creditability when you take pot shots at someone's physical appearance, for no reason other than a quick laugh.

 

you cheapen the value of your words and lose some creditability when you take pot shots at someone's physical appearance

LOLOLOL!!!!! This is true, Malik.

In the future, I will refrain from talking about Whitlock's appearance. That was wrong and uncalled for.

I'm a big fan of Ed Asner (Lou Grant from years ago) and Charles Barkley as well (not his political views, but his remarkable sense of humor).

They're both pretty big dudes, too. So, I'll put a lid on "physical" humor.

Since you and my friend KNCA wish for me to continue, I'll do so but far less often on this subject unless something occurs or I'm drawn into the conversation somehow.

It is a great discussion. But, I feel like I've been monopolizing some of it.

So, I'll pull back a bit and let others speak. Clearly, I don't have all of the answers....I wish I did.

Thanks for the post.

 

Your typing is fine, K.

"man of integrity and honor" - Are you talking about me??? My name is not Barack! Thanks for the compliment, though...It was very nice!

No. It's not ok (what is going on in our country). Trust me when I say I wish we could give Louisiana back to the French. But, after witnessing what is going on in Jena, however, France would say NO!

I wish we could bring an end to bigotry (racism, sexism, Anti-Semitism, the genocide occuring in the Sudan). But, you know how tough this is when Irish Catholics and Irish Protestants refer to themselves as "different races" in Belfast.

It's tough to do! Humans (my biological, one race family) can be incredibly stupid. I know that I can be very stupid in spite of my own belief that there is one single race. So, it has to be doubly tough for those that believe that multiple races exist.

As I told Malik, I'm willing to continue the dialogue on a limited basis as to not dwell on this subject alone and not monopoloize the conversation.

Somehow, I don't think Jena is trying to have this kind of constructive conversation that we appear to be having here. But, we do need to find ways to save the country.

And it does need saving.

 

The Jena Six Story.........

:? Okay:
So coming back to this thread I see that a couple of posters have added to shed some light,and offered some alternate POV'S on Whitlock's column.I'll concede that his view with respect to Bell may be myopic, but does slamming him for being a black conservative obviate the points he brings up in the column?
On the surface, you'd have to be almost willfully blind to ignore the imbalance of justice that is apparently taking place.But I still maintain there's a backstory and more to it than meets the eye.I lean towards Libertarian views rather than Conservative, but I'll agree with Whitlock in his criticism of Sharptons and Jacksons always being on the scene to grab a few headlines rather than helping a given situation. The truth is, these men in the past have done some good with respect to exposing racial in justices in this country.But even taking into account the Duke case, I didn't see or hear of Sharpton or Jackson apologizing to the young men who did have their lives hurt by those allegations.I'm not saying that on the other end these white kids won't get something out of this, but white,black, or other, no one wants to go to trial for something like that.So for what it was worth, could these two have come down from their grandstanding long enough to say they were wrong?Just a thought.
So to me, he's not far off the mark when he does criticize these two.Next, I think it does matter about Bell's priors and that this incident didn't happen out of the blue.If it did happen "out of the blue" then obviously the situation is more cut and dried. I'm not going to sit here and defend the Jena, Lousiana law enforcement system, but I will say that for Bell and the others too, it doesn't hurt to stay out of altercations in the first place.I'm black as the ace of spades, but just because I see there is a double standard, why does that then justify me going and doing something that I know is wrong to prove how right I was about the double standard?
I'm not a fool, the Chicago Tribune is on the pulse with its findings- about disparate treatment of black students versus white students with respect to disciplinary action.I haven't forgotten that miserable Shaquanda Cotton case http://diversityinc.com/public/1632.cfm either, but my point is that I'd rather be on the outside of a prison enjoying my freedom than on the inside hoping to feel vindicated because a white guy got the same punishment as me.
I understand that the same standards should apply in a perfect system.But aren't there better ways than making ourselves test cases?Why can't we exact justice from the outside looking in for a change?
Sorry to ramble, and thanks for letting me have mine on here.