Tyler Perry should be credited with the resurgence of Black cinema in this era

[Gorath]

That would be interesting, given his audience. Will it be bw with wm or bm with ww? ..or some other combo?

He stands to piss off a huge portion of his audience if it's bm with ww...

So far from the commercials it looks like wm/bw.

 

[medullaslashin]

So far from the commercials it looks like wm/bw.

That's safe -- in "black" media as in other media :mrgreen:

 

[Gorath]

That's safe -- in "black" media as in other media :mrgreen:

You might want to check out House Of Lies. I probably will when the new season begins.

 

[hellified]

I would like to see good images all around. Some of us grew up in the era of family matters. Yes, there was a few bad images but the color game was barely ever played. Most of the men never had such dramatic flaws. Dad was a cop. The son wasn't the greatest at grades but was trying. Steve was well Steve. You look at the fresh prince of bel air. There is no dramatic male issues. Yea, Will came from a bad environment but he worked on it. Carlton was well Carlton. Uncle Phil did his parenting thing.

We are in perry's era of bumbling idiots for a patriarchy.

What gender was the antagonist in both of these stories?
I'm not complaining that there doesn't have to be an antagonist but the antagonist has to be consistently one gender. particularly in the black community where you have the media has already done a good job of giving a bad portrayal of men or black men in particular.




I didn't use martin as a family show because it doesn't exactly present itself as that. I think meet the browns and the paynes do. That's why I compared them to family matters and the rest. The selections of martin, eddie and wayans is a selection of comedians. I don't think that is what perry is going for in those two shows.

okay..lets look at it. Both shows are about family values. Both shows have responsible employed adults. Both shows have extreme characters..urkel and mr brown himself. Both of those characters are clowns designed to be laughed at. In FM urkel was an accident prone uber nerd, the son was a borderline dummy and waldo (added later) was a walking dunderhead. Carl and the rest of the cast played frustrated straight man to all of them. And there was messages and morals galore.

In MTB brown himself is pretty much the only extreme person and everyone else play straight man to him. And HOP...is basically a poorer copy of Fresh Prince and FM. But being a poor copy doesn't mean its harmful to the black community.

 

[Soulthinker]

I enjoy the Haves and Have Nots. It is one of the few shows I had watched on OWN.

 

[hellified]

Nonsense. At least martin was funny. That's a big headstart on Perry's stuff. Perry's characters and humor look cardboard and two-dimensional, at least judging from the promos

Martin was funny, the characters were at least familiar to his intended audience, the culture was familiar, and there was sly "commentary" in there too. For example, "Bruhman" who martin's character tolerated even though the dude came in through the window and helped himself to martin's stuff etc., made everyone laugh at how we feel about the real life "bruhmans" among us.

Martin had good characters, genuine black humor that came out of black culture. Perry's humor just seems shallow in all kinds of ways -- the humor, the message etc.

If the clip below is "tyler perry" funny, it's no wonder he doesn't have such a diverse following. You and I could prolly write stuff like that. But again, I'm not knocking the guy. He's doing his thing. Not everyone is going to like his stuff, especially not most black men

when you have to put commentary in quotes..then it isn't commentary. Bruhman was a illiterate thief who would be seen as a horrible representation of black men if he were in a Perry story. You even ADMIT that there are real life bruhmans among us. I'll assume that you admit there are real life shenanaes and mama paynes as well and the majority of black people would say that these are fair, honest representations of black folk in the community. BUT Madea (bad copy of mama payne) isn't? This is what I mean about changing criteria.. A black man in a dress is tolerable as long as its really funny and the guy isn't assumed gay. But that flies in the face of the conspiracy theory that a black man in a dress PERIOD is a bad thing, not to be tolerated and proof positive of a "gay agenda".

About the resurgence of black film angle -- maybe I missed something, but I'm not seeing a resurgence.

It's a shame in fact. There are a lot of serious issues to cover, a huge underserved audience (especially black men), and the bars to making and marketing our own films are lower than they've ever been thanks to the internet and digital technology.

what genre do black men largely buy into? There were the rash of hood/gangster films back in the day (boyz in the hood, menace 2 society, juice, etc) But they were all realistically violent and the cautionary tale subtext seemed to be lost on the audience. Black women make it clear what they like and support it with their pocketbook..black men on the other hand are took busy being skeptical and paranoid to actually enjoy any one genre clearly.

 

[hellified]

I enjoy the Haves and Have Nots. It is one of the few shows I had watched on OWN.

shhhhh...don't say that too loud:lol:

 

[medullaslashin]

when you have to put commentary in quotes..then it isn't commentary. Bruhman was a illiterate thief who would be seen as a horrible representation of black men if he were in a Perry story. You even ADMIT that there are real life bruhmans among us. I'll assume that you admit there are real life shenanaes and mama paynes as well and the majority of black people would say that these are fair, honest representations of black folk in the community. BUT Madea (bad copy of mama payne) isn't? This is what I mean about changing criteria.. A black man in a dress is tolerable as long as its really funny and the guy isn't assumed gay. But that flies in the face of the conspiracy theory that a black man in a dress PERIOD is a bad thing, not to be tolerated and proof positive of a "gay agenda".

tyler... is that you?

But anyway, I think ur mixing up your arguments. I didn't make the comment about tyler perry putting out bad images... (though now that you ask, I agree his images aren't the greatest).

There are many reasons to not like tyler perry, imho... So many tthat it's easy to get them mixed up

And no I did not ADMIT there are bruhmans among us, I said there were :mrgreen: Who exactly am I admitting anything to? :mrgreen:

 

[medullaslashin]

black men on the other hand are took busy being skeptical and paranoid to actually enjoy any one genre clearly.

personally I think bm have very good reason to be skeptical and even "paranoid" :mrgreen: That's a sign of life in bm

... when it comes to media, skepticism is a good thing

 

[hellified]

tyler... is that you?

But anyway, I think ur mixing up your arguments. I didn't make the comment about tyler perry putting out bad images... (though now that you ask, I agree his images aren't the greatest).

There are many reasons to not like tyler perry, imho... So many tthat it's easy to get them mixed up

And no I did not ADMIT there are bruhmans among us, I said there were :mrgreen: Who exactly am I admitting anything to? :mrgreen:

a distinction without a difference..
No you didn't make the comment you just explained where the accusation of harmful images comes from... I'm saying that accusation is hypocritical considering those images were acceptable before.

personally I think bm have very good reason to be skeptical and even "paranoid" :mrgreen: That's a sign of life in bm

... when it comes to media, skepticism is a good thing

when it comes to entertainment media in the 21st century it can be a limiting, slippery pain in the ass for black creators. I don't think perry is the most compelling filmaker but I don't think what he does is neither dangerous nor "sets us back" either.

 

[archangel]

okay..lets look at it. Both shows are about family values. Both shows have responsible employed adults. Both shows have extreme characters..urkel and mr brown himself. Both of those characters are clowns designed to be laughed at. In FM urkel was an accident prone uber nerd, the son was a borderline dummy and waldo (added later) was a walking dunderhead. Carl and the rest of the cast played frustrated straight man to all of them. And there was messages and morals galore.

In MTB brown himself is pretty much the only extreme person and everyone else play straight man to him. And HOP...is basically a poorer copy of Fresh Prince and FM. But being a poor copy doesn't mean its harmful to the black community.

The comparisons are not the same. Urkel was a last minute add on. Leroy was always to be the main character. To be quite honest, Leroy is the lead as is Carl Winslow. Urkel does not become a main character until season 2(Because Family matters is a spinoff about Carl and his wife from perfect strangers). Leroy was always a main character.

When you place Leroy and Carl into the same spot, you see how much of a clown this character is. It also shows how much black family shows have fallen.

 

[Loki]

Clearly Tyler Perry's works will continue to create controversy.

Below are two examples IMO of the kinds of shows we need MUCH more of

Great educational science series to watch with your kids or by yourself with a Black man as host (Morgan Freeman).

[YOUTUBE]1Qpo8CCTR6s[/YOUTUBE]

One of my favorite shows, adult themes (mostly violence) so not for kids, even though Luther has his flaws, he is a highly intelligent, well respected, articulate, highly competent, compassionate, highly complex character. This is the kind of nuanced, intricate portrayal I wish we had more of here in the USA.

[YOUTUBE]k5BJEfzhqpA[/YOUTUBE]

My all time FAVORITE sitcom, while Gareth (the lead) is tyrannical, and single minded in the kitchen, he is articulate, highly intelligent, absolutely at the top of his profession, inspires loyalty, and truly cares about his staff, as well as a host of other positive characteristics. Brilliant and funny show, and Lenny Henry's company (Crucial Films) created and produced as well.

[YOUTUBE]A5y0OL7ku0g[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Gorath]

Clearly Tyler Perry's works will continue to create controversy.

Below are two examples IMO of the kinds of shows we need MUCH more of

Great educational science series to watch with your kids or by yourself with a Black man as host (Morgan Freeman).

[YOUTUBE]1Qpo8CCTR6s[/YOUTUBE]

One of my favorite shows, adult themes (mostly violence) so not for kids, even though Luther has his flaws, he is a highly intelligent, well respected, articulate, highly competent, compassionate, highly complex character. This is the kind of nuanced, intricate portrayal I wish we had more of here in the USA.

[YOUTUBE]k5BJEfzhqpA[/YOUTUBE]

My all time FAVORITE sitcom, while Gareth (the lead) is tyrannical, and single minded in the kitchen, he is articulate, highly intelligent, absolutely at the top of his profession, inspires loyalty, and truly cares about his staff, as well as a host of other positive characteristics. Brilliant and funny show, and Lenny Henry's company (Crucial Films) created and produced as well.

[YOUTUBE]A5y0OL7ku0g[/YOUTUBE]

I loved Lenny Henry in Chef! I used to work with a chef named Ric. He ran a tight ship but not in the militaristic fashion Gareth does. But he did insist that all of us call him chef. There was also the PBS show called Reading Rainbow hosted by LeVar Burton. And then there is my personal favorite City Confidential narrated by the late Paul Winfield and Keith David. I like the narrative tone in their voices. Forrest Whitaker once had a brief turn hosting The Twilight Zone and he did a good job doing what Rod Serling did. He didn't dress like Serling, but he dressed like a regular guy.