US Immigration Debate

Amen.

Besides, some misguided people are under the impression that being a minority is only about numbers. As a person who's studied sociology, i hate to tell them how misguided they are. Being the dominant force in society is more than just demographics. The maxim "Money is power" couldn't be any more explicable here. I'll give you a very good example of Brazil. "Whites" are no more than 9% of the population but are in control of the economic, political, educational and legal superstructures. On face value, one would assume that their relatively meagre population would equal political coercion but that simply isn't the case. Many white Brazilians, like our white American counterparts, are reaping the benefits of more than 300 years of human exploitation, backed and replicated by a feudal capitalist system which served the interests of the ruling class. It is going to take many years to overturn all of that.

The same standard can be applicable to the United States and many "Western" countries.

Even in Africa (except Nigeria) and the Caribbean islands where black people are the numerical majority and supposedly are "in control", whites still live in vast wealth compared to many of their poor, black constituents. Get this, the Queen of England is still a sovereign in many of these "independent" nations e.g Jamaica, Bahamas, Barbados, Zimbabwe, Kenya etc. This means that ol' girl still has some rather obsolete but noteworthy political clout. Many of these countries have black presidents, senators and other political stalwarths alright, but guess who are their financial backers and contingents? Hint : they are not indigenous Africans. Take Zimbabwe, for example. Despite the fact that "the West" has put them in an economic pariah, it was not the same story when Robert Mugabe was obeying their every command. In the 1980s, when many apartheid-supporting businesses (most backed by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan) resided in Zimbabwe and made billions off the blood, sweat and tears of black Zimbabweans, all was fine. Mrs Thatcher even invited Robert Mugabe to England in 1984. But in a sudden turn of events, Mugabe (laregly coerced by Nigeria) started chasing all the remaining colonialists away, the United Nations started to give Zimbabwe sanctions, citing diplomatic differences, allegations of torture and human rights abuse and corruptions - however, in the defense of the UN, some of those were true.

Today, whites in Zimbabwe are about 10% of the population but own about 85% of the wealth. Most of it allocated during apartheid - when Zimbabwe was still called "Rhodesia", they were major trading partners with apartheid South Africa and still are to some extent -. Meanwhile, many black Zimbabweans live in extreme poverty, many of whom resort to illegal immigration to South Africa due to its proximity (and are turned back by, get this, white South Africans). Funny ain't?

I think by now, my point has been made succinctly cear. Money equals power, especially in capitalist societies. Even though American whites appear to be reaching numerical minority status, (and that's a huge overstatement; whites are still 68% of the fucking country) their privilege as whites isn't about to shift positions anytime soon.

 

The world population is also 9% white and yet whites also control an overwhelming majority of wealth, capital and wealth.

I view multiculturalism and immigration as a means to allow more people of color to have more equitable access to First World living conditions. While it's true that just because minorities will become a majority in Europe and other "white" countrieis does not mean that they will receive the full benefits of being in such a position right away. The legacy of white privilege will mean that it's institution will carry on because of momentum, etc. This can be corrected or mitigated by instituting progressive policies such as affirmative action and anti-hate legislation.

The reason why I support increased immigration is because I view restrictions on immigration as a form of apartheid. White South Africa wanted access to their country's entire resources without living in a multiracial society. It is the same for those whites who want to restrict immigration--they want access to the rest of the world's natural resources but want to preserve their 'lily-white' insular society.

If I were to agree to some restrictions on immigration it would be this: immigration should only be decreased when specific indicators for the economy show that the unemployment rate has risen too high. Immigration can be increased again once the previous waves of immigrants have been integrated and absorbed into the economy.

 

I agree that emigration should be controlled based on the unemployment rate in a country. But as employment increases, immigration is not harmful. But its important that immigrants are integrated into society. Otherwise they are not benifiting from the new host country.
No one is saying that we should remain "lily white". Many new immigrants are contributing an essential service eg doctors, nurses etc

 

Immigration doesn't need to be controlled, that is like putting a band aid on a bigger problem. American colonialism needs to be controlled, big corporations from "Western" societies needs to be controlled. It never seems to amaze me, when economics is bad, those who have as little control or power over the situation get the blame--they always tend to be people of color. And Blacks who do this to Mexicans need to really check themselves b/c this is the same B.S. we had to deal with when we migrated North, and we were born and bred in this country. We had to be controlled, we were accused of taking the jobs away but it was the crap jobs the Whites didn't want, we were seen as un-American in our values and beliefs. Mexicans and Blacks clowning on each other is like two brown and black cockroaches fighting over crumbs, and we all getting sprayed with Raid by the big wigs on top.

Peace.

 

I'm not sure how immigration became about "race".

If any country has an uncontrolled flow of people coming in there are going to be mass problems.

The issues with blacks and Mexicans is a different issue all on its own.
And this issue has nothing to do with white people or how wrong colonialism is.

Black people living in Mexico have been treated with less respect long before the current Administration and this immigration debate.

It is not the long arm of the US making Mexicans think less of black people.

 

designer,

Immigration control has always come up in the context of race and ethnicity in the U.S.

Furthermore, the current issue of Mexican immigration has everything to do with American colonialism--gov't policies enacted and corporations raping Mexico to shreads. If people don't want an overflow of immigrants, we need to start putting our politicians in check and these corporations in check whose policies and business practices are the catalysts for the problem.

Also, why do you just state that Mexicans dislike Blacks as if implying they are the only ones guilty. Both Blacks and Mexicans hold a disdain for each other in the U.S.

Furthermore, I am more than aware of how Mexicans treated Blacks in Mexico. As a matter of fact, one of the prominant ways to get rid of Blacks altogether--they made it a national agenda to purposely "breed" out the Blacks by encouraging miscegenation among Blacks, esp. those who had money and status, to Natives and/or Spanish--it was looked down upon to breed with each other. Then once, they were light enough, they would pass into whiteness or into the peninsular class. The process was called mestijaze. It was to "whiten" the blood line. Miscegenation was used to control the races--a form of an important tool of acculturation and assimilation. Now, Mexico claims to be a meszito race that is only Spanish and Native when they have Black as well but they don't claim it. The remaining "Blacks" in Mexico now can only be found on the coastal region and have little to no rights and continue to be mistreated. This was all done under the guise of multiculturalism and "colorblindness". Therefore, the remaining "Blacks" don't even fight for their rights b/c they literally do not have a Black identity anymore but one of Mexican and hate the skin that they are in. Just like in the U.S. "whiteness" is highly valued and it is highly unlikely you will see a dark-skinned native or Black holding political office. You see, the majority of Mexicans are all "mixed" with ALL THREE BLOODS--Black, Native, and Spanish, and they have a serious issue with colorism and being colorstruck just like many Blacks and other people here in the U.S. If they treat each other like that, and have Black blood in them, they are not going to treat the Blacks here anymore different. This applies esp. to those who are trying to run from their own color and fit in with the power structure that has a White face not a Black one. Also, just to note, the Black population outnumbered the Spanish and the Meszito in the colonial period. Now, many outside of Mexico don't even know about the great numbers of Blacks who lived in Mexico and still believe Mexicans are solely Spanish and Native.

Peace.

 

Okay.
You spoke and I heard you.

Undrestand that I reference the black/Mexican issue because that is the big problem in my world right now and if we had uncontrolled Koreans coming over with issues of hate, I would talk about that too.

Immigration and problems of racism are two different things.

If we are going to fight racism we need to know that it is not about one race.

 

This is my whole point exactly. Why is it always another group of People of Color who has to be controlled in dealing with immigration? Just study the immigration policies, and you would notice this trend. When White people immigrate from Europe--it doesn't have to be controlled. No one was complaining about the Serbs, Croats, and other Eastern Europeans coming into the country. Why? B/c many Americans are not keen on this immigration b/c it doesn't get half the fan fare that Mexican immigration does by the media. America follows a pattern of always putting a lock down on immigration targeting people of color when in times of economic turmoil--it is the perfect cop-out and a smoke screen to hide the bigger issue, which is those in control exploiting Americans and other third world countries for their natural resources. This is why race/ethnicity is tied into the immigration debate. This is how the U.S. managed to maintain a predominately White population. Also, many Black Americans forget, that when many of us migrated from the South to the North, the same arguments we use against Mexicans were used by White Blue-collar workers against us. And we were born in the U.S. How quickly we forget.

I am just saying let's look at the big picture and the game that's being played and not being played by the game.

Peace.

 

Actually, where I live there was some talk about the flow of Eastern Europeans illegal coming however the problem is in the numbers.

We have 12 million illegal from Mexico by last count.
We have illegal people making demands on how we need to treat them and how we should just let them become legal citizens because they have the numbers.
This may not be a problem to some but it’s a problem to me.

Also those white people coming over have to follow the law to become legal but I guess they don’t have the numbers of illegals to make demands.


I could care less what color and where they come from, no other country will allow uncontrolled numbers to come in and then allow those people to tell the citizens of that country how it will be.

Let’s agree to disagree. Okay?

I say it’s about numbers and not race.
It’s about following the law because every body else has to unless you’re from south of the border….
And as far as the media is concerned…
The media did not tell the illegals to march and wave Mexican flags and to threaten to boycott working and shopping to show just how much they can hurt the economy if they want to.

If the law is good enough for everyone else it should be good enough for people from Mexico who sneak across the border.

 

O.K.

We just have to agree to disagree. :lol:

Peace.

 

it's also important to remember that texas and california were both stolen from mexico at one time....so basically the two are rightfully mexican territory.

thats kind of like stealing the land from the natives and then telling them they're illegal if they come back.

the only people that would be illegal are the families of those who stole the land.

 

very true...can't help but agree

 

right the blacks over there are a very small group and have been pushed way back to the most secluded places in mexico ...alot of them are in vera cruz. some of them can be almost the same color as gabrielle union and still not think they have any african ancestry...lol...because that's jsut how much their identity has been completely wiped out and they have assimilated so much into mexican culture...from what i read on them most of them think they are either indigenous indian or mestizo. it usually depends on which part of mexico you go into because in other areas some of them do understand that they have african ancestry and actually identify with it.

i'll never forget we had this substitute teacher from mexico when i was in middle school and i could have sworn he was an ethiopian but he kept saying he was mexican. he looked like a typical ethiopian. but when he would say he was mexican most of the kids would look at him funny..lol....i kind of feel sorry for him and people liek him) because its not his their fault. some people just innocently don't know and its not that theyre trying to hide their heritage they just don't know.


either way as far as mexicans being racist towards blacks im not going to use the fact that many (if not the majority) of them are complete racists to say that they dont belong in america when in fact huge amounts of america belonged to them at one time and they were either killed or pushed back out of what is now called "america" ....facts are just facts no matter what my experiences with mexicans have been.

 

As for stealing land eg Texas/California: if we thought like that in Europe, we would have hugec problems. We have been through 2 world wars, territory has been transferred back and forth several times. Germany lost a lot of territory and its people expelled. Same for Poland etc etc
Move on !

 

Well,

It is difficult to move on when a people are indigenious to a land and yet are treated as "outsiders" and discriminated against by those who are not originally from the land claimed, which was stolen by violence and biological terrorism. Maybe over there in Europe it is O.K. to steal and claim what is not rightfully yours. Thus, it doesn't faze Europeans b/c they have been doing it to each other and in other countries for hundreds of years. However, you do have other cultures that do not hold those type of ideas and consider that kind of thinking and actions as BARBARIC AND CORRUPT.

Also, maybe people would move on if the U.S. wouldn't continue its corruption in Mexico and its continued mistreatment of those of Mexican descent--immigrant or U.S. born.

Peace.

 

^^^ Okay.
Give up your property to "those" people and give them your job too.
I mean it was all stolen anyway, right?

You can turn over your paycheck to help them.
They would like that.

You stole it anyway you crook!!!
I hope the police send your azz to the joint!!!

 

Stole land my ass

Mexicans are SWARMING states THAT WERE NEVER PART OF MESSICO

WHAT ABOUT THAT??

You(along with the illegals) need a history and geography lesson.

 

If every country gave back land, which they took through expansionism or other wars, there would be no countries left.

 

You ain't lying..

Mexico should be giving back land to the Spanish if that's the case..

 

Well, this is what happens when you support globalization with a blind faith. This is why I will always try to vote for economically socialist canadates.

As for why many Black leaders are for illegal immigration, I think it's a two-prong approach. Number 1) they might think that the more poor people than are imported, the bigger their welfare-inner city powerbase will get, and number 2) Let's face it, many black supremecist support unfetterd immigration into western (read: white) countires in order to drive native caucasions out of power.