what women think?

In light of the recent comments made by Don Imus about the black women on the Rutgers basketball team i've been doing some serious re-evaluations as far as my understanding of womens issues.
I as a black man have an mercurial understanding of the subtle degradations placed on sisters and i know that often their reaction to interracial dating stems from those aspects. I mean first they are told they aren't beautiful, then told their only value is in what is between their legs or in the work they must do. They are often mocked by society, shunned, degraded and demeaned.
But i also see the effect society has on women in general and how weird it is for a woman to live and operate in this modern world. Should i put work before marriage and kids, should i put kids before my ambitions.
Women are stilled evaluated by marital status or marrying up. Women are seen as less if they don't have kids.
Women are still viewed as the weaker sex or the fragile sex(this is no way near true).
I mean i don't generally worry about staying till dark at my office even with the possibility of being jacked. But the women in my office are out before the sun hits the horizon.
Women have to be conscienous of their surrounding especially if it is just her and a bunch of strange men and she is uncomfortable in the surroundings.

but what do women think?

it is not fair, it is not equal. If there is one thing you could make the men or man in your life understand about being a woman what would that be?

 

This is a great post, hard to reply to though I think it's very complex...

I agree Man do talk a lot of trash about women (oh she just needs to get a good lay, nice ass etc.) but at the same time us women talk about men. The difference in my opinion is just that we talk about his status relating to job and brains (looser, what an asshole etc.) so I wonder does this mean that since we feel these are the "values" we need to demean in each other are those also the ones we appreciate the most...???
Anyway, in today's world women are either viewed as the weaker sex or a career hungry bitch. If she is to assertive she is a "bitch" and if she is to meek well then she just fades in the background. I think certain behavior that many of us women use reinforce this thinking. We do go for more approval of our peers than men do for example. I often wonder why we do that. Men don't care, if they think they are right they just go for it. Women, even knowing they are right, want consensus before dashing forward. Oh yeah and if they don't do the consensus seeking thing they are automatically a bitch. Not saying all men and women are like that, I am just using this as an example.

What I would like for men to understand about women ? For me personally:
I'd like for men to understand that a lot of them come accross as judgmental, it would be nice if men could learn to communicate their opinion in a "softer" way so that it won't be perceived as judgement but merely an opinion.

Give us the damn car keys!!! LMAO :lol:

 

Or let women drive and handle directions.

A lot of what men are and what women are is socialization that emphasis certian gender traits.

Men are not allowed consensus. This has changed over time but only slightly.

Men are not allowed visible fear. This has changed very little and is upheld by both men and women.

Women are not allowed visible independence-you think Hilary Clinton could run for office as a single divorcee with the opinion circulating that she is a gigantic B and cold calculating political manipulator.

Women are not allowed greater strenght than the average man-if she has strenght it must be difused by appearence, she must be hyper femine, ex. Anna Kournikova or the new russian tennis star. Where in the media Serenna Williams is not viewed as attractive or as attractive.

 

Well I think women are allowed strength and greater strength than men if they want to have it. But in most cases that woman has to be clear of the fact that she won't be "one of they boys" and that she will be talked about in more ways than just the qualification for her job. People will talk about her hair, clothes, body etc.
Didn't the press comment on the fact that Nancy Pelosi wears Armani suits??? I don't think I know what brand of suit Bush wears, not that I care...

About your Tennis player example... well sorry but that comes down to looks and here I would say "whatever rocks your boat" there is no argument that the Williams sisters kick ass on the court when it comes to their game and I don't think people try to take that away from them because of their looks. In competition like that numbers is all that counts. If you want huge endorsement deals looks matter more than your athletic achievements, not saying that this is the right way but it is what it is.

 

Women in politics in this country cannot be seen as overly aggresive. Solid is a better word than strong.

I used the clinton example because i think her transformation is better documented and response and reaction to it as well. When the clinton were first on the scene she was seen as douty, frompy to brainy which lead to her transfomring into the ultimate politicians wife with polished frock and face. And like you wrote they were more concerned with designers and cut of hair rather than her political ideology. I think when they were starting out she was vocal with her political opinions but her speech was crafted to be softer and more subtle.

I think as they progressed through the political landscape people began to believe that she was just another window dressing wife. THat was until she came into the national arena and she began again to be more vocal about her opinions on issues. Her look was soften for his second run as president and she was again caste in the ligth of the little lady.

i think what changed many an opinion of her was not white water which prosecutors went out of their way she show was more capable of arranging business ventures and understanding contracts, law etc. but the Monica Lewinski scandal. Instead of breaking down turning hysterics like the little lady supposed to do she was stoic and calm, composed. WHich many view as cold calculating. Her choices during the thing were greatly influenced by public opinion at times with stories of her yelling at him and kicking him out of the bedroom leaked hear and there. the things leaked were greatly determined by gender polls.
Women think that she was to forgiving=she goes on a number of talk shows explaining the hell girlfriend put him through to gain forgiveness. She also must stress that this hunking guloot is the man of her dreams who loves deeply on a spiritual level. It is woman's nature to forgive to nurture her home to keep it togehter for the scoudrels sake and her children. she is ever the peace maker.

This tactic was similarly used by GW campaign to explain why Laura stayed through is wild and crazy days boozing and possibly carousing.

Men are dominance oriented. it is why some straight men react against homosexuality, why one of the reasons Kerry and the perception of being kept him from beign elected and why men will not relinquish those keys. Men feel the need to be constantly on guard, in control on point against domination because natural, instinctually those who are dominated get less of the carcass and we men need the full boar.
This carries into every part of daily and causes disputes with partners who should not be viewed as dangerous adversaries.

i think hit on some point relating to the topic in this thesis :lol:

 

What I would like a man to know:

1.)A man will never understand how it is to be a woman b/c he does not live the experience of a woman. A woman will never understand how it is to be a man b/c she does not live the experience of a man. In my opinion, understanding only comes through experience. However, you can gain knowledge, you can empathize, show compassion, support, and appreciation.

2.) All women, according to culture and nation, do not have the exact same experiences with sexism. Thus, getting into discussions about sexism with a woman, be mindful of what culture and/or nation she is from in order to discuss it in a context that she can relate. Yes, there are some experiences of sexism that is experienced by most women, however, there are differences as well. Ex.) Many Black and Hispanic women ushered in the Third Wave of Feminism beginning late 1970's and early 1980's, for the most part, due to the experiences of Upper and Middle-class White women and even lower-class White women were being projected onto them w/o considering their experiences and their opinions on the position they hold in society. This has been the complaint of many non-western non-white women as well.

3.) Try to see a woman as a human being first instead of a woman first. I believe when you do that, you will discover the many commonalities that you have between each other dealing with the struggle we call life. Thus, you may be more inclined to not see a woman as a totally different being that you cannot connect or communicate with beyond the romantic/sexual level. It opens the door for open discussion, good counsel, and being on a common ground.

4.) Respect and honor the differences that you have among each other. For example, the problem in our society is not just that women are restricted in the roles they can play in society, but the roles that we are told we should play are not honored and respected. The role of mother and wife in our society as well as in some other societies are not highly exalted. The roles that we play are not respected by men. If you insist on a woman to stay home and take care of it and the children, then honor and appreciate what she does. She is more than just a cook, cleaner, and a baby maker. She is a teacher, provides counsel to her husband and children, a micro-manager that makes sure the "ship" runs smoothly, cooks the meals to keep the family strong, energetic, and healthy for the next day, a peace maker, a negotiator, and she teaches about manners and etiquette. But most importantly, speaking about mothers, they are the foundation of a nation b/c it is the mother who transmits the culture, values, and norms of a society--mothers mold and shape the future--our children. So treat them with respect, appreciation, admiration, and compensate them properly for what they do.

5.) Finally, in the end, treat us how you would want to be treated. Just b/c you are a man and I am a woman doesn't excuse "bad" behavior.

 

i think we would be better if we

not only honor those characterisitics but not demean those who do not follow those strict adherence.

and honor everyone.

 

Boll Onin,

I agree with you 100%. I am just including those who stay within the characteristics. Too many feminists talk about being disrespected for not staying in the boundaries of what they should do, however, the same women will totally slam women who choose to be stay at home wives and mothers. However, I have seen the opposite happen. Wars among women. Also, stay at home wives and mothers do not get the recognition, honor, and respect that they deserve by our society as a whole. That attitude definitely transfers over to the women who choose not to stay at home and raise the kids. Why? Womanhood, in general, is not respected in our society, period. How can you ask for respect in the workplace, politics, religious and social institutions when you can't even get it at home--where it is suppose to be your "domain"? Seen it too many times. Also, that is the whole point of the last statement--honor everyone as you said.

Peace.