Whos going to be the next "denzel"?
- Thread starter malikom
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JamalSpunky
Well-Known Member
This is a worthy discussion. There is no clear front runner because the media isn't as interested in creating leading black men. The fact that DW is still the lone black amle romantic leading man and he is over 55 tells you all you need to know. There should be 10 black guys fighting for that title all at once instead of just one guy sitting on the throne at the time.
I can go on forever but I don't have much time as of right now. But my vacation is coming up and I hope to get back to writing more lengthy thoughts about this in the upcoming days/weeks.
Bryant
New Member
Good question, but honestly, nobody in particular comes to mind.
True.
kuntrygirl30
New Member
Could it be the guy that is on tis CBS drama show now. Man I forgot his name. He plays a cop on it. I think it comes on Wednesdays at nine or TEN. I see him in many things. I think his name is Shamar Moore. I think he is the heir to DW
:smt023He ain't Denzel...but he'll do just fine!
karmacoma.
Well-Known Member
Hollywood isn't interested in creating old-school type leading men at all anymore regardless of race. The line of thought in Hollywood is that stars don't even sell pictures anymore. When stuff like Madagascar or Wall*E can gross millions with no on screen stars (just voices) or a super-hero movie can kill at the box office with leads like Tobey Maguire or Robert Downey Jr (neither of whom were big when they were cast), Hollywood got the message. Guys like Will, Clooney, Damon and Pitt have been around for over a decade now. Denzel even longer. Cruise and Hanks are like yesterday's news. Julia Roberts is MIA so nobody's reppin' for female actors among the top-earners. Look at Twilight with a cast of unknowns. It opened at $70 million. No stars.
I dont think Shamar will cross onto the big screen with any lead types of roles.Definitely has the look though.Same with Blair underwoood,Gary dourdan,lance gross,lamar rucker,Boris kodjoe,etc etc,but they all are too busy in shows and/or low budget films.Plus havent seen any work from these brothas thats anywhere near Denzels work.Could it be the guy that is on tis CBS drama show now. Man I forgot his name. He plays a cop on it. I think it comes on Wednesdays at nine or TEN. I see him in many things. I think his name is Shamar Moore. I think he is the heir to DW
True,but i think twilight is based off of a popular book so it already had its fate sealed.It obviously wouldnt have done well if it were just a new movie and not based off of a book.
JamalSpunky
Well-Known Member
1)Using animation is a somewhat bad example because after the past 15 years it has become clear that animation will have its own corner of the market but never, unlike with Japan, take over the market. The better example are the tent pole films based upon already established franchises (comic books, novels (especially fantasy and sci fi), TV series, games,...amusement park rides. When you have products based upon franchises the stars become almost irrelevant. In fact the franchise-motion pictures these days will create stars or make well-traveled actors into megastars over night (see: Robert Downey Jr and Iron Man). Twilight, though, as you mentioned is an example of what I’m referring to so you are right on the money on that one.
2)That being said Hollywood is still trying to MAKE stars. Because when you have a huge one, like Will Smith, you don't even have to worry about relying on a franchise. You just insert the star into a film and it becomes a success. However Hollywood is almost exclusively concentrating on white males as stars. Forty or thirty years ago it would have been looking for white male and female stars. Now, though its only the white guys they care about; they are the ones Hollywood is exclusively putting their hopes on. Female stars are almost an after thought as long as the guy (especially if he has a romantic attachment) is white. I find it interesting that when George Lucas was first casting for the prequel and James Cameron was casting for his upcoming film The Avatar, the casting call put out was that the female romantic lead could be white or exotic and exotic/ethnic for the Star Wars prequel and The Avatar respectively. But the casting call made it clear that for male lead, for both films, they were looking only for white males. Now I always wanted to know how could anyone look at Luke and Leia from the original SW trilogy and assume that their mother was "ethnic". In the end Lucas chose Natalie Portman who is a typical looking white gal, but still what was that casting call about anyway? And why not put out a casting call for an exotic male to play Anakin instead, huh? By the way for "The Avatar" James did indeed choose an ethnic female for the role.
3)Cruise and Hanks may be yesterday's news and its indeed true that no one has replaced them. But Hollywood is trying its best to find the next great white male stars even if it means importing them. Hollywood is not given that same effort for black male stars, not even in proportion to the population and box office clout of African Americans. I would go as far to say that Hollywood is doing a much better job finding and using attractive, young black female actresses than they do black actors. Of course that may not be fair since Hollywood typically only use attractive females regardless of race.
his window closed a long time ago....he's too much of a pretty boy...looks like a cross between tom cruise or George Michael ( back when dude still like pussy..or pretended to do so).
Shemar will always be eye candy for the ladies when it comes to the silver screen...I can' t see him gettin' any deep roles with teeth.
karmacoma.
Well-Known Member
Very deep insights, Jamal. I'm not ashamed to say I've missed your posts and outlook as entertainment is a passion of mine.
SmoothDaddy101
Well-Known Member
Although I'm not a big fan of his (I've never even seen one of his films), but It looks like Tyler Perry may change that, as he is the FIRST Black man in recent history to open up an actual movie studio. All of you have valid points. What am concerned about as well (a brought this up before) is the Black male action hero. Wesley Snipes is doing DTV stuff, but I'm talking about someone to go to the theater to see. There are no Black Stallones or VanDammes. Back in the day we had Fred Williamson, Jim Brown, Steve James and Carl Weathers. Even back in the 90s, we had Billy Blanks (his stuff was also DTV). Taimak (Bruce LeRoy) had a promising future, but nothing ever went of that (I should have asked him when I met him last year). There are brothers out there who have done stuntwork and stuff in action films. However, Hollywood won't give them a chance.
So, Like I say, the only way to ever get this done is to do it ourselves.
So, Like I say, the only way to ever get this done is to do it ourselves.
I was thinking the same thing.We have no stallone/van damme type of action heros.Michael jai white would be perfect for some of those roles,but like the rest that youve mentioned,he just has not blown up.
Tyler perry is too busy selling out making stereotypical movies.Do you honestly think that if he were to make a movie with a black action hero,people would flock into the theaters to see it like they do his stereotypical movies?I think that the question is more,do people want to see a stallone-type of black action hero,or do they want to see blacks portraying themselves streotypically?
JamalSpunky
Well-Known Member
Tyler Perry ain't gonna decide this. Sure he will give some actors a rare opportunity to be the lead in a film but its very doubtful that the work he does will ever lead to the establishment of a new black leading man. At best he'll come up with someone who could become a regular player in Perry's films and as a result a fave amongst his audience.
cowboysfan94103
New Member
The buying power of the black audience is pretty much limited to comedies. Just look at the small screen. On t.v. black audiences will overwhelmingly support 30 minute sitcoms. However blacks will not support an hour long black drama. Black dramas that do well at the box office, are black dramas that white people go in big numbers to see as well. Hollywood is no different than any of business. They want to make money. It is much easier to make a film that appeals to white people, than it is to make a money that appeals to black people..or a film that appeals to black and white people. Given that whites make up about 70% of the U.S. population, the economic numbers make sense. Am I saying that it is fair or right? Nope. However it's a reality.
When the black community shows that they will support dramas (whether on the small or big screen) consistently in big numbers, then Hollywood will start cultivating more black male actors like Denzel because it will make economic sense to do so. As much as black people like Denzel, you guys have to remember that a lot of white people also like Denzel. Will Smith has a lot of appeal. However he isnt the serious, leading actor that Denzel is. Will's appeal is more toward the action, comedy genre.
JamalSpunky
Well-Known Member
I agree and disagree. Here is where I disagree: Holywood can not support AS MANY serious or dramatic films with black leads as they do films with white leads. And no one is asking them to. But Hollywood is probably capable of supporting such films with black leads as long as the percentage of those films in terms of the overall annual Hollywood product is just under the percentage of the black ticket-buying power of the overall money haul the industry takes in. So if, say, blacks are responsible for 10% of the purchased tickes it it unreasonable for 6% to 7% of the dramatic flicks to have black leads? Especially if you consider a lower cost for those type of films. Besides the majority of films with white leads lose money why not take a chance on a handful
But you are right that in the end it comes down to black consumers demanding and supporting "quality" movies with black leads.Too often when that rare animal comes along black folks don't support it (if they do it is may be through the illegal market). Obviously the continuation of most black films tanking doesn't help matters. Then again most Hollywood flicks geared towards women (chick flicks) bomb too but Hollywod still manages to put out a few of those every six months.
cowboysfan94103
New Member
Bottom line, the black audience will not financially support black dramas. For black lead actors to develop, for hollywood studios to cast black actors who dont have white appeal (there are white male lead actors who dont have black appeal, yet because the white audience is very diverse and big population wise, hollywood can afford to cast white actors who only have white appeal because there is a chance that the film can make money), hollywood will not take a chance on as many black male lead actors as they will white men. Sure racism exists, however if a major studio is going to flourish and make money, they cannot ignore a segment of society (black movie goers) that spends money.
If you look at Denzel's movies that have done really well financially, the movies had largely white supporting casts. Malcom X did do ok at the box office. However that was a biopic that had white moviegoers who were "curious" about a historial figure.
Now black comedies that appeal to mostly black people, can make money and do well financially because of the overwhelming support and interest that black people have in comedies.
Some blacks may not like how Tyler Perry protrays black people, however it isnt like in the old days, where black minstrel shows had huge white audiences...and the stereotypes only fed how white people viewed black people. The vast majority of Tyler Perry's audience is black. You cant really dogg Tyler Perry for making his films and tv shows. If he didnt, some other black film maker would be doing what he is doing.
If you look at Denzel's movies that have done really well financially, the movies had largely white supporting casts. Malcom X did do ok at the box office. However that was a biopic that had white moviegoers who were "curious" about a historial figure.
Now black comedies that appeal to mostly black people, can make money and do well financially because of the overwhelming support and interest that black people have in comedies.
Some blacks may not like how Tyler Perry protrays black people, however it isnt like in the old days, where black minstrel shows had huge white audiences...and the stereotypes only fed how white people viewed black people. The vast majority of Tyler Perry's audience is black. You cant really dogg Tyler Perry for making his films and tv shows. If he didnt, some other black film maker would be doing what he is doing.
JamalSpunky
Well-Known Member
1)I don't ever recall writing Hollywood could afford to take as amny choices on white actors as black actors. Read my previous posts.
2)Hollywood has ignored the fact that blacks have disproportionately spent more money than whites for decades without ever considering increasing the number of diverse films for black audiences. Yes, a lot of the blame lays at the feet of black people who have not demanded (truly demanded) quality, diverse, interesting black films (or at least more opportunities for black leads). This is similiar to women complaining for two decades about the lack of films geared towards women. Well, they could have always demanded more considering they make up the majority of the country but they did not. Blacks were not in such a situation in terms of numbers but nonetheless they failed (the audience) to show they were truly willing to support quality black films or would withhold their money from Hollywood until they got such movies. That window of opportunity may now have passed because now we're going backwards with more films starring all-white casts becoming blockbusters both in this country and abroad. Hollywood is now using the international audience as an excuse to not greenlight black flicks.
3)To put new black male actors in a position to be successful as leading men one they would have to get opportunities in roles in which they had leading ladies who were (gasp) white. That would give them a chance at least of getting to be known by a larger audience. But Hollywood won't go that route.
Virtually every last film with a black star that became a huge hit had a majority white cast. That's common knowledge. But to correct you a bit "Malcolm X" , modest success as it was, stil got the overwhelmingly majority of its money from black people who were counting down to the opening of that film. The "curious" white audience didn't contribute much to the total box office take for the film. Truth is that any issue which addresses race from the black/white dynamic will be ignored by American white audiences.
As I wrote earlier the well for black comedies has dried up too. Name me the last black comedy that was a truly big box office smash? Black folks are increasingly out of options unless they take in a Will Smith movie.
Yeah, okay. If you want to be a cheerleader for that guy then you go for it. I have no problem with that. But some of us think his flicks are garbage. And frankly if his work is the only black films that black audiences will support regularly, then perhaps black folks deserve the lack of choices for movies they are stuck with.