We all make choices and live or die by them. People choose to work hard or not. People choose to go to college or not. People choose to use drugs or not. People choose to have unprotected sex or not. People choose to join the military or not. People choose to be gay or not. People choose to purchase healthcare or not. Many of these end up being life or death decisions. Freedom of choice is a scary thing sometimes.
There are several sentences here and they all say nothing, and I like how you presuppose "choice" without bothering to establish any fundamental argument for it to support the rest of your premises or conclusion.
Freedom of choice is not about consumerism or college or healthcare...et al. It is about how you choose to live based upon moral and societal rights and wrongs. It is a deviation of free will. We all have the freedom of choice to put our lives and our families in harm's way; we all have the choice to live or die; better ourselves etc. But we are limited as to how far we can take those choices by the options that each one of us, in this society, has, readily, available to us. For some few, those choices are plentfully abundant. For others, who are less fortunate, those choices are slim to almost none...for now, I'll bet on "slim" - hopefully, "almost none" will stay on vacation...although, if things don't change soon...he will be back. Peace Rick
As has already been pointed out, there is sometimes NO CHOICE TO PURCHASE HEALTHCARE. Are you fucking blind? I don't have healthcare, and it's not because I CHOOSE not to. It's because I CAN'T PAY FOR IT. Have you ever been poor? And by poor I don't mean "oh man, my parents can't afford a new video game for me this week, I guess I'll have to wait til next week". I mean poor as in standing in line at the food pantry because you can't even afford to buy yourself something to eat because your husband got fired again, having to make the decision to self medicate because you can't afford a doctor's visit and prescription medication, realizing that your station in life has fucked you out of your basic needs and there's really nothing you can do about it except call in favors of friends and family to help you out until you can find a job when the economy is fucked beyond being fucked and even the fast food restaurants won't hire you because they don't need anyone, and even if they would you don't have a car so you can't get back and forth to work anyway? Have you ever been so fucking poor that you had to choose ANYTHING painful? Because I have. You ever had to deal with the shame of telling your mother "No, mom, I don't have anything to eat today"? That hurts. You ever had to call your mom and ask if she has any extra nyquil, because you've got the flu and 103 temperature but you can't go to the hospital because you don't have any money, payday is a week away, and even then 300 dollars for 90 hours of work isn't even going to cover half of the bills? Have you ever wanted for anything? Because you're coming across as being of the mindset that people choose to be poor. No. I was born in it, and I'm working hard to get out of it, but I did not choose my parents. I did not choose to be hungry, and sick, and cold while I was married. I took what life handed me, and many people have told me it's a testament to my strength that I even survived. I did not choose. I was given. There is a difference. Life is harder on some than it is on others. Let's see how you'd fare knowing the only place you had to live was a broken down, dilapidated trailer with no running water and no heat, having to carry in stacks of firewood to burn in the stove that never burned hot enough to keep your hands and feet from going numb. Let's see you make the choice to wake up to that life every day with an empty stomach and desperation screaming at you to just give up and off yourself because you were fucked out of your full college scholarship by someone you thought you could trust and you really have no choices left other than survive or die. Don't talk to me about choice until you understand what choice is. I don't know how old you are, but don't take me for a foolish child. I'm young, but I know a fuckton more about the way the world works than most people twice my age.
But what about the people who make all the right choice and still wind up with cancer and no health care? There have been a rash of posts by our time clock looking for help for sick co-workers. Never seen them in the over 20 years I have been here. One man was having cancer treatments when his sick leave and vacation ran out. If you are not drawing a pay check (on payroll), then you do not get health care benefits. Another had gone out to have a knee replacement and got a nasty, antibiotic resistant infection where they had to put a blank in where his knee would be while they tried to rid the infection. Neither of these guys did anything to deserve to be without health benefits. They were both 20 plus year employees. All they did is get sick, and that wasnt a choice.
Free Market has been discredited, find something else to hang your hat on. The truth is in Social-Dem countries like 99% of Western Europe, you have plenty of rich people that make millions of dollars, have ski vacations in Verbier, drive Ferrari's (I saw more than few in Frankfurt) and own homes in Florida and Spain. Did they work hard for it? Some did, physical labor-wise? NOT REALLY, most when to school and hit the books, hard on brain matter, but not hard on the body. On average a CEO makes what 2-3 difficult decisions daily, the other 7-8 are "Am I going to get a Pony for my 5 year old's birthday party" or "Am I going to race this weekend at Le Mans"? In America - Please, CEO's are paid to make tough policy decisions for a company, to keep stock prices up and keep profits rolling in. When they make CUTS, they don't cut their own PAY, they cut OUR pay! How is that FAIR???? They cut back on critical training, they cut services, they may increase productivity slightly but we get paid the same rate for MORE work! How is that FAIR? The country has been under this mantra for 35 years and look where its! This Free Market Ideology stop supporting it, it doesn't work! If you work hard, pay your dues you'll still get rewarded. The change would be, if you all of sudden get hurt, you won't loose your heath care because you lost your job. If you so-called loving wife put you in the poor house, you wouldn't have to worry about health care cost for yourself, its taken care of, it comes out of your taxes, you won't notice it. Our Public Education system is horrid and that's because the Neo Conservatives/Ruling Elite want a DUMB (they are succeeding) Electorate. We have the highest rate of poverty for any 1st world industrial nation in the world. We have the highest infant mortality rate for 1st world nations We spend x2 more than any other nation on defense COMBINED, just WHO wants to destroy America and if you say Muslim Extremist, I'll ask is that deserved? We have been mucking around in the middle east since FDR, we know our large oil reserves wouldn't last forever... America WAS a great nation, its now the Nation of ME and the People. Its all about YOU and what YOU do, what YOU get, how YOU benefit. In Western Europe, its about how to WE benefit! The problem is that America hasn't been destroyed like Europe in 2 World Wars and had to rebuild. We have no humility, 40% of the country thinks racism is justified and a UCLA Professor had to correct one of his students when she thought that being Blonde was the same as being discriminated for being Black.... That's how good CHUNK of America THINKS! Big Business has destroyed the country from the inside out. We have fought 3 largely unpopular and unjustified wars since WWII. The TRUTH is FDR as part of his last term in office wanted a National Health Care System. Truman tried to pass it, but by then Conservatives gained control of the Congress. By that time Civil Rights started to build steam and while LBJ could have done more, they largely stopped because like Reconstruction, White people didn't have anymore tolerance to trying to equalize minorities and Women, they felt that had done as a FAVOR... Since then many people have been working under the radar of the National Media. The reality is too inconvenient for Neo Conservatives, Religious Riech and Free Marketers - Your ideology and policies have FAILED because they only serve the interest of the FEW and NOT the many. Its time to move this country in a more progressive direction and we can START with the Nationalization of our Health Care and Education System! Nobody on this board makes $250,000 stop whinning... Oh and the only SLACKER culture is in the Untied States, its largely not in Europe.... They have free education, we don't. RANT over.
I"m not here to make light of or to disregard anyone's personal health care situation, but the fact remains many of us have been faced with choices that lead us to our current situations. Many Americans like you guys have been screaming for universal health care for all of the reasons you have laid out here. Hillary tried to get it passed back in '93 and it failed miserably. If Barack Obama gets elected I'm sure he will try to make it happen (he has campaigned to do so). His election would be one way the American electorate can say, "were are ready for this". I don't know if enough Americans share the beliefs so passionately expressed above to enact social heath care, but we will all see in the coming months.
Presume much? Listen to yourself. If a white guy made a general statement that no black men seeking white women made over 250K you would probably be offended.
I think it's socialism that's been discredited. Otherwise, there'd still be a Soviet Union, China would still have the "iron ricebowl', and people would breaking their necks to get into Cuba and North Korea, instead of trying to get out of those countries Yeah. and those countries have very high unemployment as well It's pretty hard to run a business. There's lots of decisions one has to make. But I guess you don't see that It's fair because they own the company. They want their company to survive, and that means that you have to cut costs. It's not easy.
Wrong! Unemployment Rate according to the CIA - Denmark - 2.8% Germany - 10.8% Sweden - 2.7% Spain - 11% United States as of Sept - 6.1% and many smarter people than us say it will hit 8-9% before the fall of 2009. Is that all you could find WRONG with my post and even then your WRONG and have been discredited. Sir - Look, if somebody on this board makes $250,000 net income after expenses and taxes then its less than 2% of the membership here. Fly Girl who's a pilot makes more than most of us on this board but she's not screaming don't raise my taxes. You must be US Military since you post from Portugal and I didn't want to say this, but only a Black Man in the White Man's Army would come out with some "Personal Responsibliy" nonsense. I have no kids, no wife and pay taxes on a pitance of an income because I'm officially above the poverty line. I pay my fair share and yet the Government does LITTLE for me overall and never as much as it does for top .1% of Americans who DON'T INVEST back into America, they invest it to grow more money, put in off shore accounts or basically JUST SPEND IT. Germany, France and others have SELECTIVE SERVICES... Okay Sir, we can try it your way. Tell Americans who don't want to fight in unpopular and unjustified wars that they will have to do Selective Services in order to get National Health Care and a Free Education, all the stuff you enjoy being US Military. That would go over as well as a BBQ Restaurant owned by Jeffrey Dahmer... We have fought 4 largely unpopular wars SINCE WW2, its called the Military Industrial Complex... Ike already WARNED us about! We spend x2 what the entire WORLD spends on Military and if you say we're not experimenting with Imperialism your NUTS. BTW Russia is largely no threat either... What do they teach you in history class????
About Cuba.... Poor example, where do you get your information??? That's why Cubans are largely poor, but they sent their doctors to Katrina to help out. Cuba could be a great ecomonic partner to the Unitied States but we still have the "Commie" tag on Cuba... When we get these idiots out of office maybe we can explore relations with Cuba and lift economic nonsense we empose on Cuba...
I don't agree with sanctions. I think they're wrong. I don't think the government has any business telling people who they can and cannot associate with. If Americans wish to travel to and/or do business in Cuba (or any other country, for that matter), that should be up to them. But that doesn't mean that Cuba is the utopia that you think it is. If it were that way, tell me why some people there risk their lives to come to the US?
Germany and Spain definitely have more social welfare programs than the US, so why do they both have double digit unemployment? That's her decision I make barely $20k/year. I don't have any kids, and I don't have a wife either. Both of us are supporting ourselves. That's what we're supposed to be doing It's their money! They can wipe their ass with it for all I care. I don't playa hate on anyone who worked hard to get what they have. The military industrial complex is no different from any other government bureaucracy. It's bloated. It seeks reasons to justify its existence and its budget. It's no different from the Dept. of Education, the Dept. of Health and Human Services, the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Drug Enforcement Agency, the Internal Revenue Service and so on. Government programs are wasteful and inefficient. They never achieve the results that they were created to achieve. In fact, they end up creating more of the problem they set out to eliminate, and spending more and more money in the process. It's a vicious cycle. http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6698
I agree with totally with Leksola. Following any ideal to the end doesn't work. At the end of the day, people can argue back and forth about how much free-market vs how much socialism. I personally think there needs to be a balance. After all - what is the purpose of having a shit load of money? It OBVIOUSLY doesn't make life better or people happier. Removing all labels from it, just look at the facts. America is financially successful, yes - but the quality of life, general health and other standard indicators are lower than many other countries. So what can we learn? Money doesn't make the life better. I, for one, am happy to pay more in tax if it means that I don't have to see homeless people everywhere. If I know that no matter what, a person who is sick will be helped and I pay more tax, so be it. I am a caring human, if I have enough for a comfortable way of life, why would I not want to ensure others are at least surviving? What sort of person would I be if I didn't want that for everyone? Why should I get the benefit because of the luck of my birth and the work I've done since? I don't know if I made this up or I read it, but I have this quote in my head...and it goes something like that. You can tell the progression of the human race and what defines "progressed" communities - by how they care for their aged, their sick and the dead. The more I travel in the USA, the more I feel sad by what I see. There is so much potential here. SO much...and yet, there's just something not working. I feel as though I, as an average Australian, have a better standard of living than the average American. People here aren't luxuriously better off...so, what's the point? Reducing everything to a monetary value, if you think about it for more than 2 seconds, seems so monumentally stupid that....I can't even think of an appropriate answer. I deal with this type of stuff EVERY DAY in my job. Seeing the good decisions being changed to bad ones because of money....I get it - money is important. I don't agree with reckless spending...But not every decision should be brought down to money only, that's what I'm saying. Furthermore, surely the more money is put into the social capital and health of a community, the more financially viable they will be? To me, its pure logic that if you look after your people, they will perform better. There are always going to be people who won't work and there will always be people who strive. Ensure those who want to do well can...(that's the difference between a socialist government and others) and look after those who don't. After all, poor people just become a social problem anyway. A child shown love does not grow up to be a bum if you teach them properly. A child shown no love and left to "sink or swim" will just as often drown as they will learn. I know what type of society I would prefer to live in. I want to go home and improve our welfare system and education and healthcare...I would like to make Australia lean to the left more than it is now and reduce our involvement in the world economy. I haven't thought about that beyond idealism - and I am more than aware that there are practicalities and flow-on implications of these actions and I freely admit I haven't considered it beyond a simple cursory glance....But, that's what youth is for, right...Un-bridled optimism, idealism and lack of reality. Might as well enjoy it while I can. I doubt that these things would work in practice, but more left - definitely. Funny thing is, I find as I get older I lean further and further to the left.
Really? Social security and unemployment insurance don't work? How about SSI, section 8 or Head Start? It's funny how you throw out an empty critique of "government programs" with no context, then follow it by providing a link to a libertarian think tank.
Hmmm. No US military bases anywhere Lisbon. Is there a war here we don't know about? You don't think BM are capable of making 250k a year and you call our military a white's mans Army? I wonder how General Austin (commander of all ground troops in Iraq, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd_Austin) feels about your characterization of his troops? Are you sure you're on the right board? You don't seem to have much regard for BMs.
You are correct Sir Nose- I don't know what he is doing on this forum- because he doesn't really like American White Women-only european ww! I try to say only positive things on here- but sometimes one must say what is on their mind!!
Social Security's goin broke. I mean, how long do you think it's gonna be around? More and more old people every day. Less and less young workers. I knew a guy who was a construction worker. While he was collecting unemployment he was working on the side, making pretty good money. If you're making good money in the off season, why the hell are you collecting unemployment Section 8: The destroyer of neighborhoods. Come to Cleveland and Akron and see what Section 8 has done to once stable communities. Maybe if they start putting Section 8 in the wealthy liberal neighborhoods, they'll see it for what it really is My g/f's mom is 38. She is on every kind of public assistance you can think of. And she has come up with every kind of reason why she can't (or won't) work. She claims she injured her leg years ago. Well why can't she find a telemarketing job? There are plenty in the classified ads. You can sit down and work. She does that practically every minute of the day on the computer. If she can to go to County and get food stamps and WIC, she can go look for a job. My mom's 55, a diabetic and she has bronchitis. Yes she goes to work every day. I tell you all of this because, as hard as it is for you to believe, there are people in this world who don't want to take care of themselves. They view life through a lens of entitlements. They feel that everyone else should be responsible for them. I don't agree with that. I am responsible for me. I have to pay my bills. I have to get myself up in the morning. I have to go to work. I can't rely on anyone else, nor should I. If I want a roof over my head, clothes on my back, food on my table, a car, I have to work for it. Everyone else should as well. If you wanna contribute a portion of your income to someone else, that's up to you. Just don't force me to
