Ukraine War

Blaming America (or Ukraine or Germany, etc.) for Russia's decision to invade and bomb Ukraine has extreme "you made me hit her, it's your fault she's hurt" vibes.

Just want to reiterate that Ukraine wanted to join NATO because they feared Russian aggression, which seems... like a pretty reasonable fear, in retrospect.

And America/Germany/etc. denied Ukraine's request to join NATO. Absolute propaganda to blame anyone but Russia for this.

America has done more than enough stuff to criticize in the world, this just isn't one of those things.
 
When prices of food increase, particularly flour, there will be unrest in many countries.
Also the euro currency will fouder because Russia will default on its debts
Was it worth having this war?
We could have accepted Ukraine as a neutral country like Austria and Finland.
And let Russia keep its Russian majority regions - Donbass and Crimea.
We accepted this for NATO countries Turkey and U.K.
 
sarah23 said:
When prices of food increase, particularly flour, there will be unrest in many countries.
Also the euro currency will fouder because Russia will default on its debts
Was it worth having this war?
We could have accepted Ukraine as a neutral country like Austria and Finland.
And let Russia keep its Russian majority regions - Donbass and Crimea.
We accepted this for NATO countries Turkey and U.K.
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Was it worth having this war is a question for Putin. We didn’t make him invade Ukraine. And why for Gods sake should he keep Donbass and Crimea, especially Crimea. If that’s the precedent you want to set do you think he will stop there. Appeasing Putin policy is what we have been doing for 20 years now, especially Germany because of our energy dependence. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, it has every right to defend itself. It has every right to its territory. If Putin invades Provence tomorrow do you tell him to keep it? I’m the most peaceful person you can imagine but this guy needs serious dealing with right now before he gets out of hands to a point where we don’t want to find ourselves. He’s like a child who keeps testing. If we don’t draw a don’t cross line now next week it’ll be Moldova and the week after Lithuania. I used to think one could play it nice with Putin like Merkel used to do but no more. I feel sorry for all these badly trained 18 year old soldiers he’s sacrificing there but I don’t feel sorry for any of the big generals the Ukrainians have killed who have committed war crimes all around the world before getting to the wrong place. Slava Ukraini, that’s my take on it.
 
In the span of 2 weeks, Putin has undone nearly all the progress Russia has made since the 1990s when the Berlin Wall came down. The stock market is shut down; the Ruble is worth less now than it was 20 years ago; the economy is cut off from the rest of the world in a way it hasn't been in decades; he's costing his country thousands of lives and hundreds of millions of dollars every day as he fights a war in Ukraine that he doesn't seem to be winning. As bad as the Iraq war was for the US, Ukraine is proving to throwing Russia back 30 years. It's hard to imagine a leader doing more damage to his country in such a short period of time.
 
Madeleine said:
Was it worth having this war is a question for Putin. We didn’t make him invade Ukraine. And why for Gods sake should he keep Donbass and Crimea, especially Crimea. If that’s the precedent you want to set do you think he will stop there. Appeasing Putin policy is what we have been doing for 20 years now, especially Germany because of our energy dependence. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, it has every right to defend itself. It has every right to its territory. If Putin invades Provence tomorrow do you tell him to keep it? I’m the most peaceful person you can imagine but this guy needs serious dealing with right now before he gets out of hands to a point where we don’t want to find ourselves. He’s like a child who keeps testing. If we don’t draw a don’t cross line now next week it’ll be Moldova and the week after Lithuania. I used to think one could play it nice with Putin like Merkel used to do but no more. I feel sorry for all these badly trained 18 year old soldiers he’s sacrificing there but I don’t feel sorry for any of the big generals the Ukrainians have killed who have committed war crimes all around the world before getting to the wrong place. Slava Ukraini, that’s my take on it.
Click to expand...
Obviously I do not agree with the Russian invasion, but it was avoidable.
Let Ukraine be neutrallike Austria.
Why should Russia keep Donbass region? Britain kept a pat of Ireland that was majority British, by force of arms. Turkey keeps part of Cyprus etc etc Different wars different rules. Our meda does no talk of these things.
The Russian goverment has learnt from precedent.
Of course Ukraine has a right to defend itself. But do we wish to have a European war?
I was listening to a respected French economist who predicted that our economy will collapse before that of Russia.
Economically, we are very exposed - like auto maker Renault and some of our banks which have bilions loaned to Russia.
Also people in France are annoyed that Zelensky has endorsed Macron for reelection. Strange !
 
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https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1502036658979495940
nn3ALJt.jpg

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...w-calls-violence-against-russians-2022-03-10/

WTF?!
 
Madeleine said:
Was it worth having this war is a question for Putin. We didn’t make him invade Ukraine. And why for Gods sake should he keep Donbass and Crimea, especially Crimea. If that’s the precedent you want to set do you think he will stop there. Appeasing Putin policy is what we have been doing for 20 years now, especially Germany because of our energy dependence. Ukraine is a sovereign nation, it has every right to defend itself. It has every right to its territory. If Putin invades Provence tomorrow do you tell him to keep it? I’m the most peaceful person you can imagine but this guy needs serious dealing with right now before he gets out of hands to a point where we don’t want to find ourselves. He’s like a child who keeps testing. If we don’t draw a don’t cross line now next week it’ll be Moldova and the week after Lithuania. I used to think one could play it nice with Putin like Merkel used to do but no more. I feel sorry for all these badly trained 18 year old soldiers he’s sacrificing there but I don’t feel sorry for any of the big generals the Ukrainians have killed who have committed war crimes all around the world before getting to the wrong place. Slava Ukraini, that’s my take on it.
Click to expand...

Your former Chancellor Gerhard Schroder has said that "mistakes have been made on both sides" of the Russia Ukraine conflict.
 
sarah23 said:
Your former Chancellor Gerhard Schroder has said that "mistakes have been made on both sides" of the Russia Ukraine conflict.
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My former chancellor Gerhard Schröder is also a close personal friend to Putin and part of Gazprom and Rosneft top-management. Go figure why he’s saying what he’s saying.
I don’t understand why you are being a Putin apologetic. Even if we made mistakes there’s no single reason for what he is doing to Ukraine. The reason for what he’s doing is that he’s after former UdSSR and Tsar empire greatness. If we had done everything “right” that’d still be his mindset.
 
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sarah23 said:
Obviously I do not agree with the Russian invasion, but it was avoidable.
Let Ukraine be neutrallike Austria.
Why should Russia keep Donbass region? Britain kept a pat of Ireland that was majority British, by force of arms. Turkey keeps part of Cyprus etc etc Different wars different rules. Our meda does no talk of these things.
The Russian goverment has learnt from precedent.
Of course Ukraine has a right to defend itself. But do we wish to have a European war?
I was listening to a respected French economist who predicted that our economy will collapse before that of Russia.
Economically, we are very exposed - like auto maker Renault and some of our banks which have bilions loaned to Russia.
Also people in France are annoyed that Zelensky has endorsed Macron for reelection. Strange !
Click to expand...
The only way to get Putin to even negotiate to be content with only Donbas and Luhansk is to make it hard militarily. That’s not what he was after. I think that’s what he’ll end up with if hopefully the Ukrainians can hold out long enough for the sanctions to down Russian economy. Only then he’ll come to the table to possibly be contented with those two regions. You are talking about someone here who wanted to kill Zelenskyi and install a puppet regime.
Do you know Putin said years ago at the Munich security conference he believes German reunification was illegal?!?! Everyone laughed it off back then. Retrospectively I don’t think he was joking.
 
Yesterday, 31 "pro-democracy" GOP Senators voted against 13.6 billion in emergency humanitarian and military aid for Ukraine:


Marsha Blackburn
John Boozman
Mike Braun
Richard Burr
Bill Cassidy
Tom Cotton
Kevin Cramer
Mike Crapo
Ted Cruz
Steve Daines
Deb Fischer
Bill Hagert
Josh Hawley
John Hoeven
Ron Johnson
John Kennedy
James Lankford
Mike Lee
Cynthia Lummis
Roger Marshall
Rand Paul
Jim Risch
Mitt Romney
Mike Rounds
Marco Rubio
Ben Sasse
Rick Scott
Tim Scott
Dan Sullivan
Thom Tillis
Pat Toomey
 
M
Madeleine said:
My former chancellor Gerhard Schröder is also a close personal friend to Putin and part of Gazprom and Rosneft top-management. Go figure why he’s saying what he’s saying.
I don’t understand why you are being a Putin apologetic. Even if we made mistakes there’s no single reason for what he is doing to Ukraine. The reason for what he’s doing is that he’s after former UdSSR and Tsar empire greatness. If we had done everything “right” that’d still be his mindset.
Click to expand...
I am not apologising for the Russian invasion.
All invasions are wrong.
And innocents will die in all these invasions.
Just like all the others.
But American invasions are good ?
American collateral bombings are ok.?
Turkish invasion of Cyprus and more recently Syria are ok??
Saudi Arabian bombings of Yemenis are ok?
The list is long.
 
sarah23 said:
M

I am not apologising for the Russian invasion.
All invasions are wrong.
And innocents will die in all these invasions.
Just like all the others.
But American invasions are good ?
American collateral bombings are ok.?
Turkish invasion of Cyprus and more recently Syria are ok??
Saudi Arabian bombings of Yemenis are ok?
The list is long.
Click to expand...
This thread is called Ukraine war. Do we have to analyse every single international conflict before we can talk about Ukraine?
 
Madeleine said:
This thread is called Ukraine war. Do we have to analyse every single international conflict before we can talk about Ukraine?
Click to expand...
True indeed. Russia is committed war crimes as l type this. There are no "both" sides because Putin broke more laws of war and humanity than Hitler. Putin is killing Russian ethnics and children along with Ukrainian civilians.
 
SilverSmith said:
Yesterday, 31 "pro-democracy" GOP Senators voted against 13.6 billion in emergency humanitarian and military aid for Ukraine:


Marsha Blackburn
John Boozman
Mike Braun
Richard Burr
Bill Cassidy
Tom Cotton
Kevin Cramer
Mike Crapo
Ted Cruz
Steve Daines
Deb Fischer
Bill Hagert
Josh Hawley
John Hoeven
Ron Johnson
John Kennedy
James Lankford
Mike Lee
Cynthia Lummis
Roger Marshall
Rand Paul
Jim Risch
Mitt Romney
Mike Rounds
Marco Rubio
Ben Sasse
Rick Scott
Tim Scott
Dan Sullivan
Thom Tillis
Pat Toomey
Click to expand...
Outrageous!!!! Dems better call out the ones up for reelection this year.
 
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