Adoption

I don't know if this has been discussed before, but it's been rolling around in my mind for a few years now.

Due to circumstances in my life, I consider adoption a possible future occurrence. I have done some research and considered a lot of things - not for now, but for a time in the middle to distant future. I think it's good to be informed, and as it's a big decision, it's something I would like a long time to mull over - probably a decade or more.

Anyway - I have, of course, considered Africa as a possible place and would likely try there first before any other country. (Domestic adoptions in my country are close to impossible and totally never going to happen for a non-married woman).

I discussed this with my (ex) BF when we started dating and he was disgusted with the idea. I spoke to his sister about it recently, as she too has considered it in addition to fostering. She laughed and said that her family would hate the idea and dislike the child, because it could be "bringing a family curse into their family". She laughed about it, as she is westernised, but said she would never adopt a child from her own country because her family would be awful to the child and maybe try to trace the family and cause all sorts of trouble. This goes back to African belief systems, I suppose, and is totally outside my paradigm - but I'm happy to respect other's beliefs.

The thing I consider is that for me, as a western person, adoption is perfectly ok and my family would not think that the child would bring a curse.

There's a lot of questions that adoption and trans-racial adoption brings up. I would be interested to see what you all think on the topic. From African men who may understand or believe what my ex's family thinks, from black men who may have been adopted by white families and just people's general opinions. I know KnCA has an adopted AA daughter, and has discussed it from time to time. Anyone else on here adopted? Anyone adopted from Africa?

Do you think there are issues associated with white people adopting black children? Do you think that it's totally different to an IR couple have mixed kids? Do you think that white people should adopt white children (keeping in mind that I would only have international adoption as an option)?

I'm kind of on the fence. Part of me thinks that a good parent is a good parent and that colour makes no difference. And, part of me thinks that despite any and all of my efforts, the child still loses something and maybe doesn't gain enough in return.

I am interested to see what you all think about it.

 

It’s actually quite rare for a Southern African kid to be adopted by another black family. Mainly because we tend to have really large extended familes.Usually the Grandmother, or sometimes the Aunts take the kid if the mother passes away or can’t look after the kid. This placing a curse business, still does exist, but it’s usually the really rural people who believe that. It’s all crazy superstition anyway. What usually happens is if an uneducated African family (of which there are many unfortunately) is going through hard times, they will usually think someone placed a curse on the family...and obviously if there is kid from another family, they will assume he has brought the bad 'spirit’. The wealthier rural families will usually contact a witch doctor who then advises them who has a placed a curse on the family(sounding like a fairytale..isnt it?). The witch doctor then chucks his bones on the ground, and depending on which way the bones face or stand, he is able to determine who placed the curse...mad uh..

Sometimes he will give them a portion to rub on themselves or at certain points around the house to get rid of this spirit. The kid will then have to go through some mad cleansing ritual to get rid of the spirits..

Even after this cleansing ritual, the kid wont really have a decent existence, because a lot of the villagers will more than likely tell their children not to play with the kid because he has a 'bad spirit'.

Anyway this is the Swaziland way, and I'm quite sure the Zim way wouldnt be too different. Culturally we very similar, especially with the Ndebele.

Any way back to the adoption issue. Well in relation to white people adopting black kids, in the Africa case, I dont know how anyone can argue that’s its wrong. A black kid in Southern Africa adopted by white person will have an education, and decent standard of living..It’s a fact white people are richer in that part of the world. I have also heard the argument the kid won’t know much about his culture. Well in Southern Africa, the majority of white people have maids, and the maids are always black(always speak the local lingo) and spend the most time with the kid anyway. The kid learns the language through them, cos most speak broken English, and prefer speaking their native languages. Unlike the USA, people don’t seem to really care if a black kid gets adopted by white family, its seen more as a blessing I think..

As for a black family adopting a white kid, never seen it before in the UK or Swaziland..Nothing wrong it though. I think it would be amusing to see an adopted white kid speak an African language without an accent though!cant see happening for a while yet..

 

Swazi, thanks for your thoughtful replies.

My ex's immediate family is wealthy and educated, but his extended family is less so. Whilst I don't agree with the curse thing and would really struggle to accept that from anyone associated with me, it's still their culture and their beliefs and I have no right saying anything different. What would be the point anyway?

I was surprised to hear it, but in retrospect, it makes sense. And, yeah, I understand that Black adoptions in the whole of Africa are quite rare.

I like to think of myself as being motivated and intelligent and, if I ever adopted a child from Africa, would make a seriously huge effort to make sure that they were across all their cultural background, language, etc. As much as they were interested, or course. But is that enough?

I know that there are many different opinions on interracial adoption, and that those are probably even more strong when considering western/african adoption due to the vastly different cultures (as opposed to AA/white cultures, which are more similar).

If I was going to adopt a white child, it would probably be from Eastern Europe or Russia. Sure the child would look more like me, but I know so little about that part of the world that I would pretty much have to start from scratch. But, I guess it's very evident when a white family adopts a black child (it's an obvious adoption) but a white child in a white family could very easily be biologically theirs.

FWIW, I did read an article about a Black family in Chicago who were fostering and hoping to adopt a white girl. Aparently they dealt with a whole bunch of stuff. I guess it's so rare that people aren't used to it yet. I, too, don't see anything wrong with it, as surely having a loving family of a different colour and culture is better than not having a family at all.

I would just hate to adopt a child and for it to be the cause of irepairable issues later on.

Do you think these issues are similar to those faced by bi-racial children having a father and mother of different colour/culture?

 

Hi again,
Maybe here is a topic we can agree on.

I have an adopted sister, she is American Indian, and was born Canadian. My parents adopted her when she was about 1 and 1/2 years old. She has always been my sister, but it has been strange to see some of the reactions. We are a white family. She is obviously a different color, but since I have dark hair and fair skin, my other biological sister has blond hair and freckles, the adopted sister looked just as much like us as we did each other. In many ways I am closer to her than to my biological sister. It has been a great experience, I also have quite a few adopted cousins.

I have always wanted to adopted a child. My ex wouldn't hear of it. He used to say stupid things, like, "she isn't really your sister". He said he could never love another persons child as if it were his own, but then he didn't love his own either, so that argument I think is for people who don't know how to love.

I think it's a great idea, go for it, Love that kid, and never look back. Anyone who says he/she isn't "really" yours, is just being an idiot. The child will have a natural curiosity when he/she grows up to know about his/her biological family, and I personally think they should always be told the truth, and not lied to, some parents try to hide it, and I have always seen it backfire eventually.

My sister did meet her biological mother when she was 18, and is currently in contact with some of her siblings. (It hasn't all been good, but growing up in that family would have been more challenging.)

Happy hunting!

 

Tinkerbell, thanks for the comment - I appreciate your point of view, especially in having first hand experience with the situation. So, I guess that's one tick for "it doesn't matter - a good family is a good family".

In my heart, I think I believe that it's all ok, but since it would be such a huge decision I really want to see this from every possible angle. Especially since this decision is less about me and more about the child who never has any decision in the process.

I'm not particularly worried about what people think of me, more the impact on the child and whether it is fair to take them out of their culture and environment and put them in mine. No matter how much I try to give that child their culture, it will never be the same...

Just about everyone I've spoken to on the idea (adoptive mother, adopted adult child - both trans-racial situations) have said it was difficult, but *probably* better than the alternative.

I'm just fishing around for thoughts and ideas. Have been for over a year and probably will for a long while yet. Who knows what the future holds, but if I want children in the future, this might be the way it happens.

 

You are so welcome, follow your hear!:smt023

 

Hi again.
Big issues.

I can understand your thoughtful consideration of the issue, I would be having exactly the same angst.

From an outsider's perspective, my immediate thoughts are:

- Obviously, you are consulting with your ex's family as a cultural reference point. I respect that. Remember though, it is a decision you will own, not them.

- Consider the issues at a 'micro' level, not a 'macro' level.
When that baby's Ma or Da passed away, or left the baby to be looked after, what do you think they would have wanted?

The Wests' cultural imperialism (of course, you know I am not isolating you) can come out in many funny ways. Some Mums and Dads may just want their child to be fed, safe, secure and for that to happen anywhere in the world.

You will give that child the love and attention which is a great start.
You know for yourself that having him/her find their feet in funny old Oz and grip on tight might be a challenge, but you just need to be aware of it and address it. Role models obviously number one. The situation may not be what the 'ideal' is, but you know what, life isn't ideal. And it may certainly beat a possible alternative.

Don't forget, the most important aspects of the mind and future development are formed before a child turns three. So in that time, you can work hard to provide somewhere safe, calm and secure. That's the best start you can give any bubba, no matter their colour or yours.

Then, crude as it sounds, you have a solid 'base'. They will be able to grow to cope with anything that follows.

Good luck!

ps, have you researched the costs and timeframe for international adoption. QLD may be less prehistoric, but in NSW you are looking at possibly a five year wait, and fees about 30k.

Out of interest, you will be eligible for the Baby Bonus of $5000 if you adopt a child who is two years old or younger. It will be paid in 13 fortnightly instalments.

Sorry guys, bit of Aussie talk there..

 

Leksola,
Thanks for your thoughts and comments.

In regards to my ex, I was brining it up as a point of interest for the African men on here. It has nothing to do with me now and if I ever get together with another African, I don't think I could date one that had such an antique view of the world. It's also an interesting fact and relative to the point of the site, which is dealing with the issues in interracial relationships between BM & WW.

I'm a bit concerned that it would come off as the white person on their knight coming in to "save" the poor native. I hate that kind of stuff and want to be very careful that my intentions are right...But, I could happily look after any child, so I don't think that is it. I guess the desire to have a child comes more from a need to love and to give and to pass on values, etc. I don't think anything about the child (race wise) would change that at all. Biological or not. And, I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about me for anything I do.

I wouldn't even bother with Australia. The cost of anything and everything from there is just too much. The baby bonus. Was there ever a more stupid policy. Do you know if Krudd is going to remove that? It will be unpopular if he does...but, really....the whole thing is just stupid.

My long term plan is to work in Africa for a few years, possibly volunteer in an orphanage, and adopt locally (staying as long as necessary) then come back when the time is right, dealing with citizenship and passports after the child is legally mine in the country they're from.

I'm only 24, so this is all a LONG way off. If I'm still single at the age of 35 or something, then I'll start looking into it with serious intent. And if I get married in between then and now, and we choose to adopt, then it will be sooner.

Another question I'm interested hearing your thoughts on...hypothetically speaking, I'm in an IR relationship, and we choose to adopt... do you all think it would be preferable to adopt a black child or a white child (keeping in mind that I would be adopting internationally - not from the USA - and the chances of finding a biracial child to adopt are slim).

When I did mention it to my ex way back he said that he didn't want any black child, but would prefer a child that looked like it's mother (ie - me). I thought that there would be less pressures socially if we had adopted a black child. And if we had adopted from his home country - the child could have at least had some real involvement in their own culture. In the end, it doesn't matter, and is up to the decision of the two parents involved...but I'd be interested to hear what you all think.

 

I know he's your ex, probably for good reason, but that would bother me. My ex mother-in-law, actually asked me out right when I was pg with our first child, did I think I could love the kid even if he/she had dark skin.

I was offended that she would think I could even have such thoughts. Of course I was going to love my child, and I had married a man who had looks I already liked, and I certainly expected that my child may very well look like their father.

Then she told our second child years later that he was not of the family since he didn't look like his dad. (He really did, just a lot lighter skin/hair and smaller nose.) My son to this day has no desire to be in communication with his grandmother, he remembers that comment as if it were yesterday. (He's 25)

 

My cousin is biracial, and has spent most of his life in the UK. As far as I am aware my aunt and uncle haven't faced any major issues with regards to raising him. They have raised him like any other kid. He learns about his African side when he goes there for visits and relatives come and visit. Dont think they had special programme because he was a biracial child.The major problem he faces is when he goes back to Africa, and he feels left out when everyone speaks the local language (siSwati). No one bothered teaching him. It’s not a major issue though because a lot of people speak English.

I have heard the argument that some children will be ‘confused’ or not fit in (black or white). In my opinion this won’t happen if the parent does their jobs properly...ie exposing them to both sides of their cultures. But with regards to my cousin, he lives in a fairly multicultural area. So there are a few mixed raced people. So this fitting in business doesn’t really apply to him. I have also noticed a lot of biracial children in the UK gravitate more towards their black culture...i.e. listening to black music. I don’t really know why that is though..

With regards to Africa, South Africa with its well documented history might be problematic for biracial child. Some people are still backward. Its not just the white South Africans who can be funny, black South Africans can be just as funny aswell. Actually we have a few biracial children in Swaziland, called coloreds. They kind have their own community, and tend to stick together…

 

Yes, just from what I know, if he can get it passed he will. It will remain for the unemployed though. Unpopular as it will be with some, they will not leave people with newborn babies and no way to start out. After all, it's the child that suffers.

Report released today by Productivity Commission recommends government funded paid maternity leave protection in lieu of Baby Bonus at the award wage for 6 months. So I think there will be some type of variation on that.

IT's a fine edged political sword he will have to ride to make such a major change though, there are two pretty solid camps on the issue.

sorry Americans and everyone else, we are talking about our welfare system.

Anyone in Australia who has a baby, regardles of their age, income assets or anything else gets a lump sum payment from the government of $5000 Australian.

 

Well, I for one am happy it is going. What a rediculous policy it is. China is stopping people from having babies, and we're encouraging it by giving people some serious coin.

Besides - even if they charged me money, I would still adopt if I needed - it's not about the money after all.

I don't know what your politics are, Leksola, but I must say, I was very relieved when Krudd got in, over Howard. I didn't dislike him, but it was time for a change!

Back to adoption, however...

Swazi - thanks for you additional comments.
I my way of thinking, I doubt there would be a problem with raising a bi-racial child in an IR marriage/relationship/whatever - because the child is both the parents..I was just wondering whether there would be any similar issues with a white parent/white couple raising a black child...and whether it would be better for the child if the parents were Black and white?

I try to think how I would feel, if I was raised as an adopted child in a family of another colour. I think I would feel like I missed something. But, maybe not so much if they made an effort for me to know my culture - and I guess it would depend on how I felt about my family and the type of future I could have expected if I had not been adopted.

I couldn't live with myself if the child ever resented the adoption...and I'm just trying to gather what other people's opinions are.