What is "traditional marriage?"

I was addressing your earlier comment about what is "natural". Same gender sex is in fact natural as it occurs in nature as opposed to a social construct.

Also, the contention that animals mate when they are in heat is short sighted. Animals engage in sexual activity for more than procreation.
 
Predictable disingenuous attempt to equate homosexual "marriage" with minorities civil rights struggle in 1, 2, 3...
 
allilyn11 said:
You don't have to tell me anything. I'm for gay rights. I think legal homosexual marriage should be allowed.
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Fair enough.

I also think that trying to convince people to change their minds by displaying one's own ignorance won't work.
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I'm still not sure how it's a display of ignorance to accurately recount what's written in the Bible whether it's done a satirical manner or not. If the people who made that video really wanted to go over the top, they could have mentioned the old testament passages regarding the Israelites tricking adult males into circumcising themselves and then slaughtering their villages in order to steal their virgins while they were incapacitated with the blessing of our "benevolent" Lord.


Why is making fun of what's actually written in the Bible verboten? Especially considering the fact that fundamentalists who subscribe to a literal interpretation of that nuttiness are actively trying to control other people' lives.
 
Sir Nose said:
What does deviant sexual behavior have to do with marriage?
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What does any sexual behavior have to do with marriage?

Maybe it's just me, with my conservative traditions and all, but I was raised to believe that marriage was a committed union between two people, that the most wholesome marriages were based upon love and dedication, and that married sex was a celebration of that love -- the bonus, not the purpose.

To define gay people entirely based upon the sex that they have also reduces straight people to the sex that they have. This is frankly more than most of us want to know about each other.

Saty's comment to you may have seemed rude, and of course it is, but it is absolutely no different from the argument you are making.

By reducing gay people's lifelong commitments to the sex they have, you also reduce your own marriage to the type of sex you have with your spouse. If you are offended by hearing your wife talked about in these terms, then you should realize how offensive it is to gay people to hear themselves described the same way.

Also, it should be said that you loose your argument when you bring in the phrase "deviant sexual behavior", for two reasons. One, as others have pointed out, there is nothing deviant about homosexual sex. In addition to that, putting "deviant" before sex just makes it sound like more fun. So when you ask "What does deviant sexual behavior have to do with marriage?", most people are going to think "It depends how fun the marriage is!"

Just saying.
 
CBQ said:
To define gay people entirely based upon the sex that they have
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Glad you feel that way, because this is exactly what the gay lobby does. What identifies a gay person other than how he/she chooses to have sex? No one would even be aware that a person was gay if they didn't announce it:

"Hey, guess what America? I like to have sex with other men. Now, give me some civil rights based on that fact and that fact alone, goddammit or you're discriminating against me!"
CBQ said:
there is nothing deviant about homosexual sex.
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allilyn11 said:
True homosexual orientation is NOT deviant.
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Either you two don't know the meaning of the word deviant or you are playing dumb, and what kind of silly disqualifier is "true"?
 
Sir Nose said:
Glad you feel that way, because this is exactly what the gay lobby does. What identifies a gay person other than how he/she chooses to have sex? No one would even be aware that a person was gay if they didn't announce it:


"Hey, guess what America? I like to have sex with other men. Now, give me some civil rights based on that fact and that fact alone, goddammit or you're discriminating against me!"
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That doesn't make any sense at all. Civil rights aren't products in a store. Nobody buys them to put under the tree. You don't want civil rights until they've been denied to you. If gay people could have equality without anyone ever knowing anything about their sex lives, I'm sure the vast majority would prefer that.

For example, the reason Don't Ask Don't Tell is a problem is that when people find out what hasn't been told, then the one who wasn't telling is fired. That's why we've lost nearly 60 Arab translators.

In terms of gay marriage, I'm sure that gay people, like straight people, would just assume people not talk about their sex lives at their weddings. I don't think you need to worry about that.

I think the disconnect here is that you seem to think that being gay is only about sex. Is your heterosexuality only about the sex you have? Isn't romantic love a bit more than that? Could you imagine loving a man the same way you love your wife? Lesbians can't either.
 
No one would even be aware that a person was gay if they didn't announce it
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That's a very narrow description of being in the closet.

There's a lot more to people not knowing you're gay than just not announcing your sex life.

For instance, as someone in an IR relationship for the past few years, I've gotten used to not holding hands in public, not sharing a brief kiss in the park, not hugging when we meet, not doing any of the things that so many monoracial couples take for granted. Doing any of these things announces that I'm in an interracial relationship. The same is true for gay couples. Any affection, no matter how wholesome, announces that they are gay.

Do you believe that the neighbors of two gay men who live in the same home and raise children don't realize that they are gay?

Or should gay people live their lives alone to protect the sensibilities of straight folks?
 
CBQ said:
Civil rights aren't products in a store. Nobody buys them to put under the tree. You don't want civil rights until they've been denied to you.
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Silly. What rights have people who are gay been denied? Civil rights are treated precisely like a commodity by the gay lobby, as I have already pointed out. The goal is gaining rights and privileges associated with traditional martrimony. What do you think the gay marriage argument is all about anyway? Come on CBQ! Most Americans see right through this and have rejected it time and time again and will continue to do so

Gays could enjoy privacy, and I am sure many (if not most) of them do. What is ridiculous is to put your sexual deviance on display and then expect to be compensated for it and considered some kind of victim. It is insulting to those in this country's history who really had to battle for civil rights.
 
Sir Nose said:
Silly. What rights have people who are gay been denied? Civil rights are treated precisely like a commodity by the gay lobby, as I have already pointed out. The goal is gaining rights and privileges associated with traditional martrimony. What do you think the gay marriage argument is all about anyway? Come on CBQ! Most Americans see right through this and have rejected it time and time again and will continue to do so.
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Actually, most Americans support gay marriage.

They have been denied the right to marry, as you point out. I don't see how that's a commodity. I don't see how allowing gay lifelong committed romantic unions the same rights as straight ones is in any way related to men declaring what kind of sex they like to have.


Sir Nose said:
Gays could enjoy privacy, and I am sure many (if not most) of them do. What is ridiculous is to put your sexual deviance on display and then expect to be compensated for it and considered some kind of victim. It is insulting to those in this country's history who really had to battle for civil rights.
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You are arguing in favor of inequality, in it's most base and disturbing form. Is holding hands putting sexual deviance on display, to you? In that case, as I said before, you reduce heterosexual displays of innocent affection to the same base and disgusting description. 12-year-old heterosexual couples holding hands on their first date for the first time are putting their heterosexual intent on display for all to see.

I don't think almost any Americans think that way, and I'm really glad.


What's amazing is that you are trying to insist that gay people live the type of soulless, sex-centric lives you accuse them of, by insisting they not share their lives with a romantic partner. Unless you are of the belief that two people can live their entire lives together without anyone ever noticing.
 
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