It Kills Me
- Thread starter lippy
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Felicity
New Member
I get your point quite well. It was a refreshing approach. It challenged the status quo in composition.
Do you get my point?
What can we learn from the art that mirrors life?
I say more often than not we diss the heart of love in favor of the heart of selfishness and say that such a heart of love is weak and doesn't stand up for itself (Lippy and others thought the woman was inferior and weak and dispicable) when in fact we should stand back and take a look at the heart that abuses the heart of love and ask ourselves which heart do we have?
Why is it that we don't hold accountable the heart the DOES NOT love and make it change instead of bashing the the heart that DOES love and telling it to be more like the heart that DOES NOT love?
My point is the reality of the selfishness of life depicted in the music that gives rise to such songs about bad relationships. The war of the sexes is not just in black music but also in pop, country, opera, and all genres of music.
hmmmmmm, lippy has been weak...i've been there...it's not a good look on me...i know what it is like to be judged for being weak as well...all i can say is that in this country (usa) and in the year 2010 there is a new expectation level for women...we aren't supposed to be weak...i think we all will still have our moments...but for most subscribing to this type of mentality in the lyrics of that song would not be anything i aspire to...i have also learned that sharing my weakness with others is not wise...you teach people how to push your buttons...perpetuating the weakness even further...
i should point out that i posted the article from blackvoices...i thought it was discussion worthy because the artist is black...how odd for black women not to be celebrating her success...i think they were more worried about the implied stereotype that the lyrics put forth...the truth hurts sometimes...many times hurt pushes a person to improve
there are plenty of songs for all the rat bastards as well
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Me either. Putting up with crap from someone who obviously doesn't think much of you, and excusing that behavior because you love them so much, is not something I'm going to do, nor would I recommend that course of action to anyone else.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
You guys forget love isn't rational. You can't help the dumb shit some times
Love doesn't have to be irrational, it's not like everyone loses the ability to think rationally when they're in love. Granted most people will put up with more dumb shit from someone they love, but it should always have a limit. At the point it's clear they don't love you, as evidenced by their thoughtless or harmful behavior, it's time to cut 'em loose and move on.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
What we want desperately often clouds our judgement
For some people that is absolutely true.
Felicity
New Member
Lippy said:
How do you define weak?
Does weakness have a negative connotation?
Who is telling women that they are expected to not be weak?
Lippy said:
Nor would I. It really is not a mentality of TRUE LOVE on either the man's nor the woman's part.
I see in those lyrics a prevalent selfish love which always asks first what can I get out of this relationship instead of what can I give.
True love will be a fool for the betterment of the other person and what can be given to the other person for that person's higher good and betterment in the relationship.
Lippy said:
In true love the weaknesses are shared. Such sharing cements the commitment to love and keeps the hearts united and grateful towards each other.
If people are pushing buttons, then their 'love', in my opinion, is not true love but is instead a manipulative love for their own selfish gain.
We are fearful of sharing the vulnerability of our weaknesses because of the potential abuse and mistrust and because of our past experiences that have cut our heart deeply to be so vulnerable.
Lippy said:
True love will not be afraid to speak the truth nor be afraid to accept the truth because the love is strong enough to handle the truth and benefit from it.
True love seeks to understand the other before asserting self.
True love seeks the other's good before asserting self.
What is despicable is the selfish love that we call "true love" that will take advantage of that vulnerability and abuse it. Both genders are guilty of abuse.
Now that women are becoming more like men, are we giving men an excuse to let abuse become the norm instead of the exception?
I don't want to be like a man nor do I want my differences as a woman being blurred with the commonalities with a man.
I expect a man to treat me like a lady and I expect the man to not be lax in his provision and protection of my heart of love towards him.
These expectations are rooted in the expectation of true love with the understanding of the reality of the selfish world.
My fear is that we as women in our quest to be equal with men will somehow lose our heart of love because it will become hardened like the man's.
Felicity
New Member
I will disagree with you. The love of which I speak is quite rational with purpose.
But yeah, dump shit happens for many reasons, but not because of agape love, though I can see the self-centered world seeing such other-centric love as foolishness, ludicrous and even threatening.
perhaps the word choice is off...i believe a woman can be strong and soft at the same time...i don't think that women want to be like men unless they are the butch side of a lesbian union...i believe that women can have it all because of our unique makeup...every woman has choices...she sets her own bar...
i see you getting rather poetic about love and true love...that all looks great on paper but the reality of the situation is that love can not flourish without a fundamental base...i believe that the term "love" is over used...it has become commercial...it is "misquoted" when perhaps another feeling is really what is present
Felicity
New Member
I agree that she sets her own bar. She is strong and soft at the same time.
Her strength and tenderness are different from a man's. Her strength and tenderness are just as valid as a man's, but they are uniquely woman not man.
I think men wished women would think more like men. Books have been written on the subject.
It's been mentioned on this site on several occasions how exasperating women can be to men as well as how exasperating men can be to women.
If we spent more time trying to understand each other, don't you think the world would be a better place?
Weakness = inability to be self-sufficient and not take care of one's self.
I've never been weak by that definition.
Interestingly, I had a potential woman client tell me that she was going to nursing school because she wanted to get a better job than retail, one that would support her and be a job that would allow her to go anywhere and find employment. She spoke as if such an idea was a revelation to her. She is 24 years old and engaged.
unspoken expectation?
Is that of self expectation?
Did our great grandmothers think themselves weak?
Did the women how worked the factories during WWII think themselves weak?
I don't think so. Where the divorce rates as high then as they were now?
Is that self-sufficiency the cause of failed marriages?
I was talking with with the owners of the school at which I work. The wife is from Korea and the husband is American.
She was commenting on how her sister took care of her brother when he did not have any money and then when the sister didn't have money and the brother did, he took care of her, but in America there are families in which the father will give the shirt off his back to the children but the children will do nothing for the father when he is in need.
Are we becoming so self-sufficient that we cannot connect deeply with another human being for fear that human being will stick it to us?
Is that not what the songs on the airwaves rail against?
I do agree with you at the overuse and misquote of the word love.
The fundamental base of love is very real and not poetic at all.
Love is an action NOT a feeling.
The confusion is that we think love is a feeling.
It is not a feeling, it is an action of the will towards the other's wellbeing.
Love springs forth from gratitude of an action towards us that makes us feel important and special. The direction is outward towards the other.
Unfortunately what I'm seeing in the reality of the world we live in is the choice to replace the vulnerability inherent in love towards another's wellbeing for the security of the disconnect that prevents us from any harm or obligation of action towards the other's wellbeing.
Do we take shit from any person? No, but you can speak the truth in love (an action towards the offending person's benefit and still not be a door mat.)
We've lost the finesse of speaking the truth in love as well as losing the truth of the meaning of love because of the abuse and misuse of the word for selfish gains.
It is becoming much easier to just stomp on the feelings of others and say it's their problem not mine. In doing so we make excuses for our own unloving behavior and then cry foul when we are not loved and point the finger at everyone else but ourselves.
There are at least 7 different definitions of loves in the Greek language.
Agape is the highest and most selfless of all.
The reality in our world is that we all exhibit selfish love. We act towards another person for our personal selfish gain.
I say that to improve our world we need to reframe our minds to act towards others for their well being.
To love is not complicated, but it does require a humbling of the selfish prideful heart of which each human has to various degrees on a sliding scale.
I don't wax poetic.
I live the nitty gritty reality every day.
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