Obama supports Ground Zero mosque

[archangel]

I had an argument about this with my parents today, mainly my Mom. They are both up in arms about the building of this mosque.

In a way, I can't blame them. It seems like they're shoving it in the faces of the survivors and on the memories of those who lost their lives.

However, like I told my mom when she questioned the reason they're doing this:

because they can.

That's it. They have every right to build it under the Constitution. It sucks for the many people who are offended by it, but there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. It's written in our Constitution. They know it. We know it. They're taking advantage of it.

I personally think it's in poor taste, because I do see it as a slap in the face to those people personally affected by this tragedy. But hey, it's America, I'm allowed to feel this way.

How is it a slap in the face? Other then religion, there is no connection that I know of.

 

[Espy]

I liked all of the quote except the idea of other people getting to vote on if you have the right to build your building.

Well generally I would agree with you on that Archangel, I just think in this unique case that it should have been obvious that there was going to be a lot of emotion tied to the decision and it would have been polite to consider people's feelings. As Andrae mentioned, the symbolism for New Yorkers is something a lot of people can't overlook.

 

[raocha]

I had an argument about this with my parents today, mainly my Mom. They are both up in arms about the building of this mosque.

In a way, I can't blame them. It seems like they're shoving it in the faces of the survivors and on the memories of those who lost their lives.

However, like I told my mom when she questioned the reason they're doing this:

because they can.

That's it. They have every right to build it under the Constitution. It sucks for the many people who are offended by it, but there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it. It's written in our Constitution. They know it. We know it. They're taking advantage of it.

I personally think it's in poor taste, because I do see it as a slap in the face to those people personally affected by this tragedy. But hey, it's America, I'm allowed to feel this way.

Why? Can you explain this? Not trying to start a fight. I'd like an explanation because I'm honestly confused about how building a mosque in the general vicinity of Ground Zero is offensive if you take anti-Muslim bigotry out of the equation. And is there any other type of building that shouldn't be constructed near to where the towers fell? Night clubs? Schools? Clothing stores? Gyms?

I guess that I'm just thick because I don't understand how the memory of the people who died there is being insulted by this building if you're not holding the entire religion of Islam and one billion plus Muslims responsible for 9/11. If you are, then I get it. I don't agree, but I get it.

 

[Espy]

Why? Can you explain this? Not trying to start a fight. I'd like an explanation because I'm honestly confused about how building a mosque in the general vicinity of Ground Zero is offensive if you take anti-Muslim bigotry out of the equation. And is there any other type of building that shouldn't be constructed near to where the towers fell? Night clubs? Schools? Clothing stores? Gyms?

I guess I'm that I'm just thick because I don't understand how the memory of the people who died there is being insulted by this building if you're not holding the entire religion of Islam and one billion plus Muslims responsible for 9/11. If you are, then I get it. I don't agree, but I get it.

I think for some people it is absolutely about anti-Muslim bigotry, for others it just seems tacky for people to be reminded of the people who caused 9/11, which is sort of anti-Muslim bigotry by proxy. Sometimes you aren't personally offended by something, but you are offended on behalf of someone else, I think that's how some people feel.

Personally I think if you opened a strip club at ground zero that would be viewed with just as much disdain. There are quite a few people who view that as hallowed ground and they wouldn't be pleased with anything.

 

[FG]

I think ground zero should remain unbuilt... a park perhaps. With a memorial such as Pearl Harbour. We can not forget.

 

[raocha]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-hearing-update

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-update---ground-zero-mosque


It's a damn shame that the best media critic in the country does a show on Comedy Central.

The "hallowed ground" that the mosque is going to built on is currently an abandoned building that used to be a Burlington Coat Factory. Additionally, there's already another mosque in the same neighborhood four blocks from Ground Zero that actually predates the construction of the World Trade Center. Is this building also a slap in the face to the families of 9/11 victims for the same vague, poorly articulated but definitely not anti-Muslim reason? Should the existing mosque be demolished to appease the 9/11 families?

Like I've said repeatedly, this is one of the most ridiculous "controversies" in recent memory. It's nothing more than thinly veiled Muslim bashing.

 

[pettyofficerj]

I think ground zero should remain unbuilt... a park perhaps. With a memorial such as Pearl Harbour. We can not forget.

dont think any Japanese were opening Sushi Houses near Battleship Row.

that would be career suicide lol

 

[pettyofficerj]

Dude you can't be that dense. Building a Mosque there would just incite problems. The insensativity comes in when a place of worship is built on the grounds where thousands died in the name of that God. I don't get why that's hard to see.

it's one of his freedoms



this is a city problem as mentioned before, since they were most affected by it. If they're forgiving enough in a collective manner, to agree to the introduction of a new Mosque, perhaps as another symbol of diplomacy in their immediate region, so be it.

 

[Bookworm616]

How is it a slap in the face? Other then religion, there is no connection that I know of.

Why? Can you explain this? Not trying to start a fight. I'd like an explanation because I'm honestly confused about how building a mosque in the general vicinity of Ground Zero is offensive if you take anti-Muslim bigotry out of the equation. And is there any other type of building that shouldn't be constructed near to where the towers fell? Night clubs? Schools? Clothing stores? Gyms?

I guess that I'm just thick because I don't understand how the memory of the people who died there is being insulted by this building if you're not holding the entire religion of Islam and one billion plus Muslims responsible for 9/11. If you are, then I get it. I don't agree, but I get it.

Why do I think it's a slap in the face...because it happened a mere 9 years ago. There are still more people alive today that were around when 9/11 happened than not.

We remember the dancing in the streets from other countries. We remember the fear that enveloped the country. We remember the thousands of innocent lives that were destroyed that day: either by death or loss of a loved one...we remember the lives that will forever be tainted because of that day. We remember coming together as one united people, even if only for a little time. We saw what it did to our economy.

A generation hasn't even past yet.

And as the old saying goes: the few spoil it for the many.

I'm not anti-muslim, but I can't ever agree with putting a brand-new religious building near the site where innocent people needlessly lost their lives and/or had their lives changed forever.

I may not agree with the building of that mosque, but I won't tell them they can't do it.

Radical muslims make peace-loving muslims look bad. They do. Just as Fundamentalist Christians make normal Christians look bad. It's the nature of the beast. It's why I f-ing hate organized religion so much. The millions of lives lost over the course of history because they either believed something others didn't, or they didn't believe something others did.

It's sick.

I think for some people it is absolutely about anti-Muslim bigotry, for others it just seems tacky for people to be reminded of the people who caused 9/11, which is sort of anti-Muslim bigotry by proxy. Sometimes you aren't personally offended by something, but you are offended on behalf of someone else, I think that's how some people feel.

Personally I think if you opened a strip club at ground zero that would be viewed with just as much disdain. There are quite a few people who view that as hallowed ground and they wouldn't be pleased with anything.

I think this is a fairly accurate statement. Especially considering how fresh the memory is....

I think ground zero should remain unbuilt... a park perhaps. With a memorial such as Pearl Harbour. We can not forget.

I agree with this completely, however, knowing how real estate is such a hot commodity in Manhattan, this is likely never going to happen.

 

[Bookworm616]

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-hearing-update

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-update---ground-zero-mosque


It's a damn shame that the best media critic in the country does a show on Comedy Central.

The "hallowed ground" that the mosque is going to built on is currently an abandoned building that used to be a Burlington Coat Factory. Additionally, there's already another mosque in the same neighborhood four blocks from Ground Zero that actually predates the construction of the World Trade Center. Is this building also a slap in the face to the families of 9/11 victims for the same vague, poorly articulated but definitely not anti-Muslim reason? Should the existing mosque be demolished to appease the 9/11 families?

Like I've said repeatedly, this is one of the most ridiculous "controversies" in recent memory. It's nothing more than thinly veiled Muslim bashing.

Now that is a ridiculous statement. Why stop there? Why not say that we should demolish every mosque ever built within the US since its inception?

Come on.

However, I did not know another mosque was already there...so that begs the question, why do they need to build another one so close?

 

[pettyofficerj]

Now that is a ridiculous statement. Why stop there? Why not say that we should demolish every mosque ever built within the US since its inception?

Come on.

However, I did not know another mosque was already there...so that begs the question, why do they need to build another one so close?

why do blacks move into white neighborhoods?


because we can

 

[The Dark King]

So to sum it all up we all should do whatever we want no matter who it hurts as long as its the in the limits of the law? And this is why we will never move forward as people. This "I should be able to do whatever I want" mentality is holding us back.

 

[goodlove]

Dude were you living in New York when 9/11 happened? Because putting a Mosque on the site where thousands were murdered in the name of Allah is the same as having Confederate flags hanging all over the place in the south. Its insensative and basically uncalled for.

if that is the case then white churches should not be built in the same city of birmingham due to the birmingham church bombing

 

[goodlove]

Now that is a ridiculous statement. Why stop there? Why not say that we should demolish every mosque ever built within the US since its inception?

Come on.

However, I did not know another mosque was already there...so that begs the question, why do they need to build another one so close?

from what i understand it is a mulim community center with a mosque in it. it is suppose to be used by everyone.

 

[Loki]

No. I'm just not sure what if anything the construction or rather extension of a religious center (they've already been holding prayer services in an adjoining building for quite some time without issue) several blocks away from the place where a terrorist attack took place is supposed to represent.

I would understand where you were coming from if you blamed Islam for the terrorist attacks on 9/11. I think that's a hideous generalization, but I understand what the mosque represents to anyone who holds that belief. However, you've claimed that you don't blame all Muslims for the attacks, so your strident opposition to the construction of this building doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

Once again I have to co-sign with Raocha on this. I think the Timothy Mcveigh analogy, as well as a David Koresh/Waco analogy are very appropriate here. Nobody would complain about a Christian church being built in OK city or Waco, even though wacked out christian extremists killed many people in those places in the name of god.

Islam has nothing to do with the wacked out extremist terrorists that caused 9/11 the same way Christianity has nothing to do with Koresh/Mcveigh. Al Qaeda/The Taliban, and other wacked out fundamentalists are not equal to all those who follow Islam, why should they suffer for the ignorance and violence of a select few?

 

[raocha]

Why do I think it's a slap in the face...because it happened a mere 9 years ago. There are still more people alive today that were around when 9/11 happened than not.

We remember the dancing in the streets from other countries. We remember the fear that enveloped the country. We remember the thousands of innocent lives that were destroyed that day: either by death or loss of a loved one...we remember the lives that will forever be tainted because of that day. We remember coming together as one united people, even if only for a little time. We saw what it did to our economy.

A generation hasn't even past yet.

And as the old saying goes: the few spoil it for the many.

I'm not anti-muslim, but I can't ever agree with putting a brand-new religious building near the site where innocent people needlessly lost their lives and/or had their lives changed forever.

I may not agree with the building of that mosque, but I won't tell them they can't do it.

Radical muslims make peace-loving muslims look bad. They do. Just as Fundamentalist Christians make normal Christians look bad. It's the nature of the beast. It's why I f-ing hate organized religion so much. The millions of lives lost over the course of history because they either believed something others didn't, or they didn't believe something others did.

It sure as hell sounds like you are to me. You're entire argument is based around the conflation of the actions of murderous fundamentalists with regular Muslims. Despite claims to the contrary, the only theme that I've managed to take a away from your post is that you blame the entire religion of Islam for what happened on 9/11 to such an extent that you think ordinary citizens of this country who happen to be Muslims should keep their distance from Ground Zero because any display of the Islamic faith in close proximity to piece of land is an "outrage."

 

[The Dark King]

It sure as hell sounds like you are to me. You're entire argument is based around the conflation of the actions of murderous fundamentalists with regular Muslims. Despite claims to the contrary, the only theme that I've managed to take a away from your post is that you blame the entire religion of Islam for what happened on 9/11 to such an extent that you think ordinary citizens of this country who happen to be Muslims should keep their distance from Ground Zero because any display of the Islamic faith in close proximity to piece of land is an "outrage."

Conversations like this really fuel the reason why people just can't get along. You just want to see your pov, you aren't even trying to see another. What people like myself and Book keeo trying to illustrate is that we don't have a problem with Mosques or even people who practice there but why put it there if its going to cause a problem for so many. Manhattan is fucking huge and there are plenty of other places to build Mosques why buld one where it well get the most negative attention. It makes it seems as if those who are building this Mosque are looking to start problems.

As for your OK city bombing reference and Waco in this country we have developed a relationship with Christianity, its the bed rock religion of the nation and people are comfortable with it. As Americans our only true exposure to Islam are extremist who want to hurt us and destroy our way of life. Christianity is engrained in our customs from everything to Christmas and Santa Claus to Easter and the Easter bunny. Our consumer based way of life has a good relationship with Christianity so even if some extremist do things in the name of Christianity we have other customs built into our way of life that cancel out the negatives. Unfortunately there is no such foundation for Islam so its understandable people might feel the way they do.

 

[raocha]

Now that is a ridiculous statement. Why stop there? Why not say that we should demolish every mosque ever built within the US since its inception?

Why is it any more ridiculous than your claim that the construction of the new building on the "hallowed grounds" of ye old Burlington Coat Factory is "slap in the face" to the victims of 9/11 and their families? It's in close proximity to Ground Zero and it's a place where Muslims congregate. Doesn't that meet your standard for offense to the 9/11 families?

For the record, there is in fact opposition to the construction and, in some cases, mere existence of mosques nationwide for the same vague, poorly articulated but clearly visceral reason. This whole thing is about opposition to Islam in general in this country not proximity to Ground Zero.

Come on.

You come on. Your argument is irrational.

However, I did not know another mosque was already there...so that begs the question, why do they need to build another one so close?

The building technically isn't a mosque. It's an Islamic community center. Why build another one so close? If you'd watched the videos I linked to, you'd see the that there are many Muslims who live and work in that area. They're building it because they can and because they are residents and citizens of this country just like everyone else. Would there be opposition to a Jewish or Christian community center being constructed there given the fact that there are already extant churches and synagogues in the area? I think not.

I'm sorry to repeat myself, but the fierce opposition to this building just does not make any sense unless you hold the religion of Islam and every single Muslim on the face of the earth directly responsible for 9/11. Now, you're entitled to hold that opinion, and it's my right to disagree with you.

 

[raocha]

Conversations like this really fuel the reason why people just can't get along. You just want to see your pov, you aren't even trying to see another. What people like myself and Book keeo trying to illustrate is that we don't have a problem with Mosques or even people who practice there but why put it there if its going to cause a problem for so many. Manhattan is fucking huge and there are plenty of other places to build Mosques why buld one where it well get the most negative attention. It makes it seems as if those who are building this Mosque are looking to start problems.

The only problem here is being caused by bigots and people who want to demonize Islam for political gain because there's a large and growing anti-Muslim sentiment in this country. I'm sorry, but IMO that's an idiotic reason to oppose the construction of this building. The denial of these people's First Amendment rights to appease bigots is reprehensible and un-American.

As for your OK city bombing reference and Waco in this country we have developed a relationship with Christianity, its the bed rock religion of the nation and people are comfortable with it. As Americans our only true exposure to Islam are extremist who want to hurt us and destroy our way of life. Christianity is engrained in our customs from everything to Christmas and Santa Claus to Easter and the Easter bunny. Our consumer based way of life has a good relationship with Christianity so even if some extremist do things in the name of Christianity we have other customs built into our way of life that cancel out the negatives. Unfortunately there is no such foundation for Islam so its understandable people might feel the way they do.

Let me summarize. It's okay to attack Muslims or hold them to a different standard because a lot of people don't like them or don't know very much about the religion. Yeah, I got it.

 

[raocha]

Once again I have to co-sign with Raocha on this. I think the Timothy Mcveigh analogy, as well as a David Koresh/Waco analogy are very appropriate here. Nobody would complain about a Christian church being built in OK city or Waco, even though wacked out christian extremists killed many people in those places in the name of god.

Islam has nothing to do with the wacked out extremist terrorists that caused 9/11 the same way Christianity has nothing to do with Koresh/Mcveigh. Al Qaeda/The Taliban, and other wacked out fundamentalists are not equal to all those who follow Islam, why should they suffer for the ignorance and violence of a select few?

Indeed. It doesn't get much more simple than that.