Steve Nash Double Swirling Gone Wrong!!

[The Dark King]

I said no such thing. I do not want a system that pushes people to the bottom no more than you do. But that system exist regardless of racial classification as you already named one country like Brazil. But people do use such differences to discriminate against one another. Yes they absolutely do but that doesn't make the differences bad or that we recognize it as bad. If we choose we could live in a country were we noticed our differences and appreciated them. The problem is to many people choose to not to appreciate them but rather use them as a means to discriminate just as they use class and gender. But like gender their is nothing wrong with noting we have differences the problem remains in how people react to them. Like gender I believe that we can live together but appreciate each others differences.
Yes it will affect me. If my husband can't get job, goes to prison, etc b/c of racial discrimination is going to affect ME. I believe you got that wrong. I can emphasize but not sympathize.

What is white heritage. It's my heritage. Its not only the genetics that have been passed down from many generations to me but also the customs, traditions, holiday celebrations, foods, democracy, history of my people, fashion, literature, music, dance, etc...[/QUOTE]

This is why your racist. A wide sweeping generalization is usually made by someone racist. What are white foods? What is white music or literature
or dancing?

Like I said I'm calling it as I see it. You're definitely racist. You make it sound like the white or black experience is monolithic. Like I said before have a good day Mrs Duke

 

[ReginaStar]

I said no such thing. I do not want a system that pushes people to the bottom no more than you do. But that system exist regardless of racial classification as you already named one country like Brazil. But people do use such differences to discriminate against one another. Yes they absolutely do but that doesn't make the differences bad or that we recognize it as bad. If we choose we could live in a country were we noticed our differences and appreciated them. The problem is to many people choose to not to appreciate them but rather use them as a means to discriminate just as they use class and gender. But like gender their is nothing wrong with noting we have differences the problem remains in how people react to them. Like gender I believe that we can live together but appreciate each others differences.
Yes it will affect me. If my husband can't get job, goes to prison, etc b/c of racial discrimination is going to affect ME. I believe you got that wrong. I can emphasize but not sympathize.

What is white heritage. It's my heritage. Its not only the genetics that have been passed down from many generations to me but also the customs, traditions, holiday celebrations, foods, democracy, history of my people, fashion, literature, music, dance, etc...[/QUOTE]

This is why your racist. A wide sweeping generalization is usually made by someone racist. What are white foods? What is white music or literature
or dancing?

Like I said I'm calling it as I see it. You're definitely racist. You make it sound like the white or black experience is monolithic. Like I said before have a good day Mrs Duke

LOL Do you not think wp had music, dance, literature, foods, prior to coming to the US. Do you not think wp have come up with new music, new dances, new literature, and new foods since becoming Americans? Do you also tell Mexicans they have no culture aswell? Since they too or a modern day ethnic group? Do you honestly not believe that African americans do not have their own music, dance, literature, foods, aswell? White and black were segregated only 50 years ago. Do you not think their was differences in the two separate communities?

 

[ReginaStar]

I said no such thing. I do not want a system that pushes people to the bottom no more than you do. But that system exist regardless of racial classification as you already named one country like Brazil. But people do use such differences to discriminate against one another. Yes they absolutely do but that doesn't make the differences bad or that we recognize it as bad. If we choose we could live in a country were we noticed our differences and appreciated them. The problem is to many people choose to not to appreciate them but rather use them as a means to discriminate just as they use class and gender. But like gender their is nothing wrong with noting we have differences the problem remains in how people react to them. Like gender I believe that we can live together but appreciate each others differences.
Yes it will affect me. If my husband can't get job, goes to prison, etc b/c of racial discrimination is going to affect ME. I believe you got that wrong. I can emphasize but not sympathize.

What is white heritage. It's my heritage. Its not only the genetics that have been passed down from many generations to me but also the customs, traditions, holiday celebrations, foods, democracy, history of my people, fashion, literature, music, dance, etc...[/QUOTE]

This is why your racist. A wide sweeping generalization is usually made by someone racist. What are white foods? What is white music or literature
or dancing?

Like I said I'm calling it as I see it. You're definitely racist. You make it sound like the white or black experience is monolithic. Like I said before have a good day Mrs Duke

Stop looking at the US for a moment and try looking else where. Do you not consider white Australians to have a culture separate from Aboriginals? Do you not consider white south Africans to have a separate culture from black south Africans? Do you think just b/c a wp moves to Japan and assimilated into Japanese culture that Japanese is no longer an Asian culture or the Japanese ethic group?

 

[orejon4]

Countries outside of America are very different. Many black Americans go to Africa to find themselves being called white. In South Africa the separated mixed race into their on group. Latin America has entirely different view of who is white and who is black. Many Latin Americans come to the US done lived their whole lives seeing themselves as white and then in the US are told they are black. I think it's Dominican Republic that has a backwards one dropping system. If you not black as in dark skin you are white. Putero Rico has another one dropping system where if you were atleast 1/4 white you are white.

This is very true. That's one of the reasons I took care to distinguish this as the US system, and further, to highlight that the US economic/cultural hegemony has caused this system to be foisted on much of the world, although definitely NOT in the same degree as it is here. As a result, much of Latin America is going through racial consciousness movements for both the indigenous and black populations, similar to the 1960s US. Brazil's and Cuba's black movements and Bolivia's and Peru's indigenous movements come to mind most readily. Both are a response to discrimination by the predominately European elite. Fascinating really.

 

[The Dark King]

LOL Do you not think wp had music, dance, literature, foods, prior to coming to the US. Do you not think wp have come up with new music, new dances, new literature, and new foods since becoming Americans? Do you also tell Mexicans they have no culture aswell? Since they too or a modern day ethnic group? Do you honestly not believe that African americans do not have their own music, dance, literature, foods, aswell? White and black were segregated only 50 years ago. Do you not think their was differences in the two separate communities?

English Germans Irish Italians and Spanish people each had their own distinct culture with foods and music and dance for each one which had zero to do with their skin tone. And Mexican isn't an ethnic group the correct term would more likely be hispanic or latin/South American and each of those culture are distinct from their caribbean counter parts. You look at me and you would call me black assuming I'm African American heritage but my background is Jamaican and I grew up with totally different music food and dance in my household apposed to many of the other bm on this forum. Btw I totally caught how you called yourself and others that look like you white instead of European American and called blacks African Americans again perpuating the divisive language that make people of darker skin seem to be outsiders.
Truth is culturally I have more in common with a puerto rican and a dominican than I do someone whose family comes from North Carolina. So again I call you out on your obvious racism(which isn't always monsterous just incredibly ignorant as you appear to be) isn't overlooked.


Anybody got some troll begone?

 

[orejon4]

LOL Do you not think wp had music, dance, literature, foods, prior to coming to the US. Do you not think wp have come up with new music, new dances, new literature, and new foods since becoming Americans? Do you also tell Mexicans they have no culture aswell? Since they too or a modern day ethnic group? Do you honestly not believe that African americans do not have their own music, dance, literature, foods, aswell? White and black were segregated only 50 years ago. Do you not think their was differences in the two separate communities?

US whites are both similar and distinct from European whites. One of the first things I noticed in Europe is how different European whites look from US whites (probably due to the admixture of black - though many wouldn't admit it and indigenous peoples). Noses, forehead height and width and more.

There is still pretty much a de facto segregation in many aspects of US life as well, particularly in housing patterns in Chicago, Boston and many other cities.

 

[The Dark King]

Stop looking at the US for a moment and try looking else where. Do you not consider white Australians to have a culture separate from Aboriginals? Do you not consider white south Africans to have a separate culture from black south Africans? Do you think just b/c a wp moves to Japan and assimilated into Japanese culture that Japanese is no longer an Asian culture or the Japanese ethic group?

You assume all white Austrailians are the same and your comparing racial groups with ethnic groups. Either you're a troll or just incredibly stupid. Which one is it?

 

[orejon4]

English Germans Irish Italians and Spanish people each had their own distinct culture with foods and music and dance for each one which had zero to do with their skin tone. And Mexican isn't an ethnic group the correct term would more likely be hispanic or latin/South American and each of those culture are distinct from their caribbean counter parts. You look at me and you would call me black assuming I'm African American heritage but my background is Jamaican and I grew up with totally different music food and dance in my household apposed to many of the other bm on this forum. Btw I totally caught how you called yourself and others that look like you white instead of European American and called blacks African Americans again perpuating the divisive language that make people of darker skin seem to be outsiders.
Truth is culturally I have more in common with a puerto rican and a dominican than I do someone whose family comes from North Carolina. So again I call you out on your obvious racism(which isn't always monsterous just incredibly ignorant as you appear to be) isn't overlooked.


Anybody got some troll begone?

Gotta second you on the similarities among all island cultures, MrFantastic. I noticed that from my Puerto Rican black family: musical rhythms, religious practices more Africanized in form, food, styles of expression, etc. It helped me connect with black people from the Diaspora more readily. My African-American black family has much more in common with Southern whites than with island blacks, in many respects, yet there is still a common thread of black West-African-based cultural norms that I have noticed in both groups.

 

[The Dark King]

US whites are both similar and distinct from European whites. One of the first things I noticed in Europe is how different European whites look from US whites (probably due to the admixture of black - though many wouldn't admit it and indigenous peoples). Noses, forehead height and width and more.

There is still pretty much a de facto segregation in many aspects of US life as well, particularly in housing patterns in Chicago, Boston and many other cities.

The only difference is Europeans can unify under the banner of being French or Italian despite race as long as you're not a recent immigrant bringing a different culture opposite from the dominate one.

 

[orejon4]

Stop looking at the US for a moment and try looking else where. Do you not consider white Australians to have a culture separate from Aboriginals? Do you not consider white south Africans to have a separate culture from black south Africans? Do you think just b/c a wp moves to Japan and assimilated into Japanese culture that Japanese is no longer an Asian culture or the Japanese ethic group?

You're also right on this point. Whites around the world have always maintained a "Creole-ized" (sorry I know it's not a word) culture when in multiracial societies (colonial) which maintains links to the country of origin yet also acquires characteristics unique to the place in which they find themselves. Hence the different accents, variations in music, etc. In the new country they also maintain this new culture as separate and distinct from the other ethnic groups with whom they are in proximity (white vs. aboriginal Australians being one such example).

 

[The Dark King]

You're also right on this point. Whites around the world have always maintained a "Creole-ized" (sorry I know it's not a word) culture when in multiracial societies (colonial) which maintains links to the country of origin yet also acquires characteristics unique to the place in which they find themselves. Hence the different accents, variations in music, etc. In the new country they also maintain this new culture as separate and distinct from the other ethnic groups with whom they are in proximity (white vs. aboriginal Australians being one such example).

Her argument is totally bogus. It promotes the nonsense ideology of "acting" black or white when your behavior is distinct to your region not your "race".
Down south dudes are very different that dudes from New York. As I'm sure people from Melbourne are different from people in Sydney. Please don't help her promote her race based garbage.

 

[ReginaStar]

English Germans Irish Italians and Spanish people each had their own distinct culture with foods and music and dance for each one which had zero to do with their skin tone. And Mexican isn't an ethnic group the correct term would more likely be Hispanic or latin/South American and each of those culture are distinct from their Caribbean counter parts. You look at me and you would call me black assuming I'm African American heritage but my background is Jamaican and I grew up with totally different music food and dance in my household apposed to many of the other bm on this forum. Btw I totally caught how you called yourself and others that look like you white instead of European American and called blacks African Americans again perpuating the divisive language that make people of darker skin seem to be outsiders.
Truth is culturally I have more in common with a puerto rican and a dominican than I do someone whose family comes from North Carolina. So again I call you out on your obvious racism(which isn't always monsterous just incredibly ignorant as you appear to be) isn't overlooked.


Anybody got some troll begone?

Do you not realize that English, German, Irish, Italians, etc didn't even exist that long ago? They were Romans, Celtic, Scandinavian, Germanic, etc. They separated and become their own groups. Just as white Americans have done.
All Latinos do not have the same culture.
Many Caribbeans are not of Spanish culture b/c it was not Spanish that existed there like you say your Jamaicans. Jamaica was a British territory.
Have you not had to assimilate to African American culture in the US b/c it's the dominate black culture here?
I used the term African American to represent descendants of US slaves. Black American encompass all people of black decent and I was not talking about all. However just as white Americans assimilated their cultures non AA black Americans are doing the same.

How do you have more common with Spanish people that African Americans? What culture do you share? Right off the bat you share a common language with AA's in which you do not with Spanish.

 

[orejon4]

Good points on both sides here...

I think you guys are agreeing with each other on some points but terminology keeps tripping us up, most notably the 'white' versus 'European' or 'black' versus 'Latin', 'African', etc or ethnically-specific labelling. For example, there are both types of 'white' cultures in the Australian setting you use as an example. There is in fact a generalized 'white' normative culture to which all whites belong as distinct from non-whites in such settings. To the extent to which they maintain the creole association with their ancestral homeland there is also that culture. As a result there is both, for example, a 'white' Australian culture as well as a 'Greek' Australian or Irish-Australian culture. The whole conception of 'whiteness' as a singular culture is a function of colonial/metropolitan countries where whites from various European heritages come into contact in an atmosphere of greater racial diversity. The 'white' culture then develops as a byproduct of racial isolation from the non-whites around them. In the absence of these environments, whites are simply defined by ethnic identity/nationality.

 

[ReginaStar]

:smt023:smt023

US whites are both similar and distinct from European whites. One of the first things I noticed in Europe is how different European whites look from US whites (probably due to the admixture of black - though many wouldn't admit it and indigenous peoples). Noses, forehead height and width and more.

There is still pretty much a de facto segregation in many aspects of US life as well, particularly in housing patterns in Chicago, Boston and many other cities.

Absolutely right.

 

[orejon4]

Her argument is totally bogus. It promotes the nonsense ideology of "acting" black or white when your behavior is distinct to your region not your "race".
Down south dudes are very different that dudes from New York. As I'm sure people from Melbourne are different from people in Sydney. Please don't help her promote her race based garbage.

I'm not talking about 'acting' black or white. You're right that those are bogus concepts, more based on behavioral stereotypes than cultural markers. For me 'black' culture is shorthand for 'African' culture (sloppy terminology, I know, but I'll try to tighten it up), meaning the essential elements of West African identity that are present to a greater or lesser degree with all blacks from the slave trade-driven Diaspora. They are present in the US, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Guyana, Guadeloupe, Mexico and anywhere else people of African origin were taken. That is different from aspects of culture that are present in places based on location, such as the difference between Jamaica and, say, Grenada or Trinidad (which are many, though the untrained eye might lump everyone together).

 

[ReginaStar]

Gotta second you on the similarities among all island cultures, MrFantastic. I noticed that from my Puerto Rican black family: musical rhythms, religious practices more Africanized in form, food, styles of expression, etc. It helped me connect with black people from the Diaspora more readily. My African-American black family has much more in common with Southern whites than with island blacks, in many respects, yet there is still a common thread of black West-African-based cultural norms that I have noticed in both groups.

Many African Americans also feel that their West African roots (however not as much) has left their trace within their culture aswell. Like music and dance the way they practice their religion (not the religion it's self) from West Africans. Do you not agree with them?

 

[ReginaStar]

The only difference is Europeans can unify under the banner of being French or Italian despite race as long as you're not a recent immigrant bringing a different culture opposite from the dominate one.

In order to assimilate there has to be something to assimilate too.


This explains white american culture to some degree.

In his 1989 book "Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America" (ISBN 0-19-506905-6), David Hackett Fischer explores the details of the folkways of four different groups of settlers from the British Isles that came to the American colonies during the 17th and 18th centuries from distinct regions of Britain and Ireland. His thesis is that the culture of each group persisted (albeit in modified form), providing the basis for the modern United States.

According to Fischer, the foundation of America's four regional cultures was formed from four mass migrations from four different regions of the British Isles by four distinct ethno-cultural groups. New England's formative period occurred between 1629 and 1640 when Puritans, mostly from East Anglia in England, settled there, thus forming the basis for the New England regional culture. The next mass migration was of southern English cavaliers and their Irish and Scottish servants to the Chesapeake Bay region between 1640 and 1675. This spawned the creation of the American Southern culture.

Then, between 1675 and 1725, thousands of Irish, Cornish, English and Welsh Quakers plus many Germans sympathetic to Quaker ideas, led by William Penn, settled the Delaware Valley. This resulted in the formation of the General American culture, although, according to Fischer, this is really a "regional culture," even if it does today encompass most of the U.S. from the mid-Atlantic states to the Pacific Coast. Finally, a huge number of settlers from the borderlands between England and Scotland, and from northern Ireland, migrated to Appalachia between 1717 and 1775. This resulted in the formation of the Upland South regional culture, which has since expanded to the west to West Texas and parts of the U.S. Southwest.

In his book, Fischer brings up several interesting points. He states that the U.S. is not a country with one "general" culture and several "regional" culture, as is commonly thought. Rather, there are only four regional cultures as described above, and understanding this helps one to more clearly understand American history as well as contemporary American life. Fischer also asserts that it is not only important to understand where different groups came from, but when. All population groups have, at different times, their own unique set of beliefs, fears, hopes and prejudices. When different groups came to America and brought certain beliefs and values with them, these ideas became, according to Fischer, more or less frozen in time, even if they eventually changed in their original place of origin.

 

[orejon4]

Do you not realize that English, German, Irish, Italians, etc didn't even exist that long ago? They were Romans, Celtic, Scandinavian, Germanic, etc. They separated and become their own groups. Just as white Americans have done.
All Latinos do not have the same culture.
Many Caribbeans are not of Spanish culture b/c it was not Spanish that existed there like you say your Jamaicans. Jamaica was a British territory.
Have you not had to assimilate to African American culture in the US b/c it's the dominate black culture here?
I used the term African American to represent descendants of US slaves. Black American encompass all people of black decent and I was not talking about all. However just as white Americans assimilated their cultures non AA black Americans are doing the same.

How do you have more common with Spanish people that African Americans? What culture do you share? Right off the bat you share a common language with AA's in which you do not with Spanish.

I have to second MrFantastic on this one. All of the islands changed hands from Spanish to Dutch to French to British and back again. The islands have more in common with each other than they do with anyone else. The English language is probably the only thing black people from there have in common (apart from the general African-isms present in all blacks of the slave trade) with African-Americans. And the manner in which it is spoken can make African-Americans and Afro-West Indians almost mutually unintelligble at times. The food, music, rhythmic structure of speech patterns, religious practices, folklore (itself much of it African-derived) and more are extremely similar among all the islands, Brazil and the rest of Latin America. The only part of the US that shares a similar link is the New Orleans region, a truly unique island unto itself in the US.

 

[ReginaStar]

I think you guys are agreeing with each other on some points but terminology keeps tripping us up, most notably the 'white' versus 'European' or 'black' versus 'Latin', 'African', etc or ethnically-specific labelling. For example, there are both types of 'white' cultures in the Australian setting you use as an example. There is in fact a generalized 'white' normative culture to which all whites belong as distinct from non-whites in such settings. To the extent to which they maintain the creole association with their ancestral homeland there is also that culture. As a result there is both, for example, a 'white' Australian culture as well as a 'Greek' Australian or Irish-Australian culture. The whole conception of 'whiteness' as a singular culture is a function of colonial/metropolitan countries where whites from various European heritages come into contact in an atmosphere of greater racial diversity. The 'white' culture then develops as a byproduct of racial isolation from the non-whites around them. In the absence of these environments, whites are simply defined by ethnic identity/nationality.

Well said. This is exactly what I've been trying to say.

 

[orejon4]

Gotta second you on the similarities among all island cultures, MrFantastic. I noticed that from my Puerto Rican black family: musical rhythms, religious practices more Africanized in form, food, styles of expression, etc. It helped me connect with black people from the Diaspora more readily. My African-American black family has much more in common with Southern whites than with island blacks, in many respects, yet there is still a common thread of black West-African-based cultural norms that I have noticed in both groups.

* In the statement above, by 'both' I was referring to both African-Americans AND Caribbean/Latin Americans. So yes, I do agree that African-Americans have traces of West African culture in our culture as I can personally attest, yet not nearly as many as Caribbean/Latin Americans, as I can also personally attest. *