Post Of The Day

Let's just put it this way, many species including our own, look to leaders whether male or female (which in most cases is _ _ _ _). Socially, in most cases a leader naturally arises (when it doesn't, that's definitely interesting)...a marriage is no different nor exception...
 
I think the term "leader" in this discussion has taken on a negative connotation synonymous with an autocratic, dictating tyrant whereas in our relationships that is generally not the case. I think all of us would feel put off by a partner who continually used the "My Way or the Highway" method to make decisions, especially if inputs from their partner won't even be heard or considered.

Conversely, responsibility can be a smothering bear on our backs if we have too many things requiring attention and seemingly little or no support in fulfilling those responsibilities. I know of at least one couple where he is a complete authoritarian and seems to be insensitive to her feelings when he talks to her or decides for them what will be done. Economics does play a role in her tolerating his behavior. He is the sole breadwinner and she comes from a poor family in another country.

With them being what I will call an exception, I believe most couples have a dynamic or vacillating style on who is "leading" and when. It's all situational, with no one constant leader/decision maker.

Obviously, this topic has drawn out distinctly different opinions and I was going to keep my mouth shut, but I couldn't and didn't... We can always agree to disagree...
 
nocturnalmission said:
I think the term "leader" in this discussion has taken on a negative connotation synonymous with an autocratic, dictating tyrant whereas in our relationships that is generally not the case. I think all of us would feel put off by a partner who continually used the "My Way or the Highway" method to make decisions, especially if inputs from their partner won't even be heard or considered.

Conversely, responsibility can be a smothering bear on our backs if we have too many things requiring attention and seemingly little or no support in fulfilling those responsibilities. I know of at least one couple where he is a complete authoritarian and seems to be insensitive to her feelings when he talks to her or decides for them what will be done. Economics does play a role in her tolerating his behavior. He is the sole breadwinner and she comes from a poor family in another country.

With them being what I will call an exception, I believe most couples have a dynamic or vacillating style on who is "leading" and when. It's all situational, with no one constant leader/decision maker.

Obviously, this topic has drawn out distinctly different opinions and I was going to keep my mouth shut, but I couldn't and didn't... We can always agree to disagree...
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very well said, Noc.
 
moddestmike said:
Does he lead because he has more experience and ALWAYS knows better or is it just because he is the man and societies perception of the male-female relationship dictates such?

On the contrary, society still by and large views the male as the dominant figure in the home and male leadership as the norm. I was raised in a household where mutual responsibility was shared. I cant remember a time when my mom "submitted" to my dad. There was never a time where my dad played the leadership role (at least not that I can remember). It was a logical, mutual relationship in which decisions were logically made by both. If there was a disagreement, they would discuss it and come to a conclusion based on who had the better experience and knowledge of such. I know many women (make that about 80-90%) feel the need to be guided in a sense as men define this as a feminine trait and any woman who attempts a role at leadership is viewed as a feminist, but the truth is this mentality will always keep women at the lower end of the earning spectrum and many other areas where males dominate.

My dad was employed as a Engineer and my mom owned a small franchise of daycares. Whoever got home first picked up the kids, cooked and cleaned so the other didn't have to. Family vacation? Driving was split 50/50. Need directions? Whoever was more familiar with the area mapped out the trip. My mom was a hardcore go getter (would be considered an aspiring feminist by todays standards), her attitude accompanied by my dads perspective of equal partnership made for one awesome childhood. They did their best to work the same amount of hours so that they may spend equal time with us. There was never a time where my mom dominated in the responsibilities of taking care of us. Thats just flat out insanity in my opinion.

My parents raised 4 boys with the philosophy of "no one is dominant", and I must say it has benefited my brothers and I immensely. It showed me that my dad does not indeed know everything. I also learned a level of respect for relationships that go far beyond what many assume to know. My future wife shouldn't expect me to leader her or have the final say, but to include her in the decision making process.

There will never come a time in which I assume that a woman needs to be led without the accompanying assumption that she may want to be led to feel safe. Just my opinion, but this is a cop-out for personal responsibility. Men posses no more brain or will than women and for a female to desire a man lead her is highly unattractive in my opinion.
Although I do seem to encounter those who share your philosophy, and they are usually the more religious crowd. Not a shot at you by any means but its a consistent commonality that I've observed throughout the hundreds of discussions I've had on this very topic.

I don't plan on having kids but if I ever do, I'll be sure and teach my daughter that she ALWAYS knows whats best for herself.
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I really don't have the energy, nor am I going to waste time in trying to defend my marriage to you. My husband is not a control freak, and I am not a sit-back, defenseless, weak-minded woman. There are certain things I'm better at than he is, and vice versa, and neither of us have a problem sharing those responsibilities. I said in my original post that we make decisions together -- he always , ALWAYS, knows where I stand, but I have no problem letting him make the final decision. I trust him to do that...I don't force or pressure him into it, and he never excludes me in making decisions. It's sad to me that you find a woman's wanting to be led or wanting to feel safe (emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc) as a "cop-out for personal responsibility" - that just makes no sense to me. I have yet to meet a woman who doesn't want security and safety in a relationship. But, maybe women are different where you're from...who knows. All I'm saying is just because you can't grasp the fact that a strong woman is okay with submitting to her husband, doesn't mean it can't work. Maybe it won't work for you, and that's fine - I don't really care what you and your lady do - but for some couples it does work for the best.

And one last thing, your comment about if you ever have a daughter...well, I do have a little girl, and I plan on raising her (and her future brothers and sisters) to know that she can do whatever she wants in life. Her happiness and well-being don't depend on another person, as no one's should. But I will also teach her that sometimes in our fight to be independent/self-sufficient/leader-material, we must realize that being independent sometimes means you have to be dependent on others.

I'm done.
 
MrFantastic said:
Wait don't like your man taking the reigns and leading you?
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you and Modest have totally missed construed everything i've said about the whole leading thing - yes, my husband is the "head of the household", but it's not like i just sit back and take orders OR, on the contrary, I don't sit on my ass all damn day while he takes on all the responsibility. i work 40hrs a week, so does he. i cook, i clean, i parent our child - he does all of that too. the whole leading thing is about respect and trust - that's it!! and that's exactly what FRESH said back on like page 1 of this thread, but no one seems to be able to freaking grasp that. :smt101
 
suprchic73 said:
you and Modest have totally missed construed everything i've said about the whole leading thing - yes, my husband is the "head of the household", but it's not like i just sit back and take orders OR, on the contrary, I don't sit on my ass all damn day while he takes on all the responsibility. i work 40hrs a week, so does he. i cook, i clean, i parent our child - he does all of that too. the whole leading thing is about respect and trust - that's it!! and that's exactly what FRESH said back on like page 1 of this thread, but no one seems to be able to freaking grasp that. :smt101
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Slow down thick and beautiful I wasn't trying to critique your relationship just confused by the language. Mutual respect and trust has nothing to do with leadership to me. Leadership usually means I lead you follow, I make the decisions and you adhere to them. For me a better word would be partnership or team work but to each his own. Besides we're derailing too much, this thread is suppose to be about appreciation. Trying to be the change I want to see in the world lol.
 
MrFantastic said:
Slow down thick and beautiful I wasn't trying to critique your relationship just confused by the language. Mutual respect and trust has nothing to do with leadership to me. Leadership usually means I lead you follow, I make the decisions and you adhere to them. For me a better word would be partnership or team work but to each his own. Besides we're derailing too much, this thread is suppose to be about appreciation. Trying to be the change I want to see in the world lol.
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lol. fair enough. and yes, maybe partnership and teamwork are better words to use. either way, my whole point is about mutual respect, consideration, love, trust, TEAMWORK, and being able to lean on one another when life gets tough.

now, it's friday, so let's hug, and then get back to changing the world... :D
 
suprchic73 said:
lol. fair enough. and yes, maybe partnership and teamwork are better words to use. either way, my whole point is about mutual respect, consideration, love, trust, TEAMWORK, and being able to lean on one another when life gets tough.

now, it's friday, so let's hug, and then get back to changing the world... :D
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Amen sister
 
I'm a couple days late with this one but shout out to Boatan for this one.
This was in the Texas Confederate Flag Thread:


Over 15,000 Confederate plates in nine Southern states have already been issued most of the request initiated in the last few years but, for some 'unknown reason' the interest for many Whites to remember their

Southern heritage has increased shortly after 2008. LOL

This fear and race bigotry movement disguised as history is very transparent to moral, intelligent people. What is funny is I think some of them actually believe they are pulling the wool over most peoples eyes.

KY is also considering Confederate plates despite the fact that KY was a border state in the Civil War.

Some Whites in the state say it is because the traitor Confederate Pres. Jefferson Davis was born in KY but, so was Pres. Abe Lincoln. Lincoln of course won against Davis in the war funny how we live in a country that only values winners but, in regards to the Civil War most Republicans claim that they sympathize with the losers; the Confederacy, in opinions polls despite their 'alleged patriotism and love' for America.
 
Great post by LaydeezmanCris in the Bigotry forces Black Republican out of party thread. Really insightful fam.

I'm sure I've mentioned this before but here goes anyway. I was once a Republican, albeit a soft one (and unregistered as one). I've never really registered as a member of either major party but at the time, considered myself something of a Rockefeller Republican, with the idealism of Adlai Stevenson and pragmatism of a JFK or George Romney. And to some degree, I still identify with that particular strain of philosophy as even when i considered myself a Republican, I mainly identified as a liberal Republican. (Maybe that's what made it easy for me to leave the party).

I fully understand where this man is coming from. I had been to many conservative and Republican events where some of the most thinly veiled racist remarks were uttered, many in my presence. The amazing thing is that most of the time, many of these people never seemed to grasp the weight of their attitudes and remarks. I remember attending a Charlie Crist event during the gubernatorial campaign in 2006 (those of you who've been here as long as I have will remember that I was living in Miami at the time) and people will give me the "what is he looking for here" look many times, often even after I revealed that I was for their guy. I used to get the "you're so different to other blacks" remark I kind of got used to it.

A lot of the time I'd hear certain things and I would quietly and politely prod the offenders and caution them. In all fairness, many of them (even if they would voice disagreement) were civil about it or even admit culpability but then there were others who would just flat out go apeshit and accuse me of formenting problems, being "sensitive" and what not. I was never entirely comfortable with everything the GOP was doing, and even though I've voted for GOP candidates and might if the right one comes along, I have often found certain tenets of the Republican orthodoxy illogical, intellectually feeble and downright callous - gay marriage, taxes and foreign policy mostly come to mind here. I bit my tongue for awhile but the GOP kept moving further right for my tastes.

The last straw was the 2008 Elections, and I can honestly say that I would have left the GOP even if Barack Obama weren't the nominee ... i had already had enough of the GOP's bullshit and the arrival of a charismatic, refreshing and (seemingly) revolutionary candidate allowed me the opportunity to assess things. So that whole "you only voted Democrat because the nominee was a black guy" bullshit won't fly, I voted for Bill Nelson for Senate in 2006 (but for Crist for guv). The way the McCain campaign and its supporters conducted the most racially polarizing presidential election in history left a very bitter taste in my mouth that has not truly healed. There was no way I could stick around.

And it's gotten worse. This president has been called everything from a porch monkey to a Stalinist, African Third World dictator, the right has not spared the man from day damn one. I can never be a part of such a reactionary, xenophobic and culturally repressed group of Neanderthals. And that's just the truth.
 
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