Nightclub holding light-skinned vs. dark-skinned women contest

[orejon4]

Wait, which one is it?

Because in the off duty IR cop thread, your comment there justified drug dealing as being the effect of post industrialization. As a result, you said, it wasn't fair to compare a drug dealer's lifestyle value system with the values of the "black agrarian poor of the South and initial black urban migrate(rs)", who worked an honest day's work.

Yet in this one, it's because of 400 years of brutal oppression and enslavement to justify, in your words..."the Black community's sociopathic behavior...ie: drug dealing."

??

Nothing in either statement said that it 'justified' drug-dealing. The statements offered explanations for the different behavioral norms of agrarian black culture (the foundational culture of African-American culture generally) and modern urban disfunctional black culture. A lot of the things rural blacks did were a byproduct of the very real threat of violent racial retaliation by whites (anyone with northern and southern family members can attest to some of the very real cultural differences here) and overt racism they experienced.

It's not a contradiction to note that two distinct socioeconomic groups have differing responses to similar stimuli. More correctly stated, the urban poor are the latest variant in the longitudinal development of US black culture which is, throughout the 400+ years of experience in this country, a series of varying survival strategies and responses to systemic racial oppression and its deforming effects on human potential. Some of these responses are acquiescent, others defiant, and others dysfunctional. Differing responses don't validate the conditions, they are just different strategies and perspectives based on different times, geography and conditions. In each instance, the defining characteristic is that it is an abnormal state for any group to live in an environment that negates its existence and that has harmful effects on its development.

 

[orejon4]

Holy crap! It's snowing! Again!? And it was was 50 yesterday! I want to go home!!!!

Alright, leaving work early to catch Ghost Rider 2. Review to follow. Laters.

 

[Alinoa]

In all fairness, he could say the same thing about those of whom he complains about.

Actually, I think that IS what he says about those he complains about.

I think the difference is that in people who keep a wider idea base don't base their beliefs on something they see as being who they are.

One may believe God has the all consuming power (or a religion that follows such) to dictate whether I as a women can have safe birth control. They may Identify themselves in this belief. This is WHO they are.

I on the other hand, can believe that the above statement about my right to my own reproductive choices is a load of crap and I may not agree with it. It is however NOT who I am...It's more of a general guideline. I wouldn't want a person to order me to do or not do something based on some belief they had. I in turn do not do that to them.

I do not tell them: Your belief system is crap and you MUST think like me. And if you don't I will shame you into it or force you into through sheer domination because I am right and you are wrong.

I do tell them: I don't agree with you about that, but you have a right to that opinion, as I have a right to mine. Oh, and please stop trying to get me to have 15 kids because God said go forth and fuck, thanks.

Anyway, I think it's important to have have flexibility in your beliefs and ideas. Not be so hardset that no one could ever have a chance of possibly having one that might differ from yours and be correct at the same time.

 

[GQ Brotha]

Nothing in either statement said that it 'justified' drug-dealing. The statements offered explanations for the different behavioral norms of agrarian black culture (the foundational culture of African-American culture generally) and modern urban disfunctional black culture. A lot of the things rural blacks did were a byproduct of the very real threat of violent racial retaliation by whites (anyone with northern and southern family members can attest to some of the very real cultural differences here) and overt racism they experienced.

It's not a contradiction to note that two distinct socioeconomic groups have differing responses to similar stimuli. More correctly stated, the urban poor are the latest variant in the longitudinal development of US black culture which is, throughout the 400+ years of experience in this country, a series of varying survival strategies and responses to systemic racial oppression and its deforming effects on human potential. Some of these responses are acquiescent, others defiant, and others dysfunctional. Differing responses don't validate the conditions, they are just different strategies and perspectives based on different times, geography and conditions. In each instance, the defining characteristic is that it is an abnormal state for any group to live in an environment that negates its existence and that has harmful effects on its development.

Full reps for laying that out bro.

If you go to the PIne Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota, you will see destitution, poverty, lack of education, gangs, etc, same thing in the Navajo Rez in Arizona/New Mexico/Utah.

If you go to Alaska and in many of the small Inuit villages you will see alcohol prohibition in force because it has reeked havoc on those communities historically.

When we look back on American history and see that laws were made about for example, what water fountains blacks could drink out of, that should tell you how deep the social mindset about race and social standing was embedded.

History doesn't happen in a vacuum, actions have consequences that shape the societies we live in.

For example ask ourselves, why after blacks were enslaved, fought in the Civil War, freed by the Emancipation Proclamation, the Southern states then felt still compelled to impose Jim Crow Laws.

Blacks as a people in American society have lived under Slavery/Jim Crow laws longer than they have been deemed equal citizens under the laws of the land.

 

[The Dark King]

It depends on how you look at it...Many of those who are denied, whether by their own lazy accord, or by generational expectation, or by lack of opportunity, depend on and trust on the system TO provide for them, of which the system does.

Curious - where did you get youreducation from growing up?

Well we were talking about drug dealers and I don't think they generally rely on welfare but I could be wrong on that one.

I went to Catholoc private school for both primary and secondary school. Undergrad at SUNYstarted my Graduate work in accounting at Uconn and will most likely finish at either CUNY or NYU Stern depending on funding with a doctorate in economics/applied mathematics with a concentration in behavioral models aka game theory. Why?

 

[LA]

Reps on the way for Orejon and GQ Brotha.


Much appreciated, fellas.

 

[The Dark King]

ya think??

Funny how women are normally the ones given welfare since they have the kids. How can a drug dealing man rely on it?

Btw no one is saying that those involved are necessarily victims just giving reasosn as to why this is happening.

 

[Mikey]

http://www.stltoday.com/entertainme...dcf-11e1-83a3-0019bb30f31a.html#ixzz1nGJdPZ4h

I would partially agree with Paniro's first post. In this case he obviously is right, we're bringing these issues onto ourselves. The event is basically saying light is great, dark isn't. Colorism is what hurts us all. We can't do anything though and the host of that event doesn't care that we complain.

 

[Alinoa]

now i ask the same thing of others yet i get called a sambo or a sell out for believing victims than the victims on this board.

Hey now, back up. I didn't call you a sambo or a sell out. I know their your ideas and opinions are not mainstream on this board. I think you tend to be more to the left and conservative in your view point.

And what I am saying is that is totally OK. You have a right to that. What you shouldn't do is put someone down or treat them less than (like your reply to my thread about Regan. The way you worded that was like I have no idea what the fuck I am talking about..in fact that was exactly what you said.) I do happen to know what I am talking about and even though we don't agree in politics or probably on any other stance...I don't hold any of that against you.

I'm sure IRL you are a very great person. I won't hold what you believe to be true against you.

Unfortunately, whole groups of people do this very thing. If you don't look like them, talk like them, make the same amount of money as them or worship the same faith, you are branded bad and then treated as such.

Open discussion of different pov is encouraged to help people either understand why they believe what they do..or to help them understand why they don't believe that way anymore.

 

[orejon4]

I would partially agree with Paniro's first post. In this case he obviously is right, we're bringing these issues onto ourselves. The event is basically saying light is great, dark isn't. Colorism is what hurts us all. We can't do anything though and the host of that event doesn't care that we complain.

I agree that we do it to ourselves, but white/light skin fetishizing didn't originate in black culture. It was/is an externally imposed value and obviously, judging by our participation in this forum, is something that we are all aware of.

 

[JordanC]

I agree that we do it to ourselves, but white/light skin fetishizing didn't originate in black culture. It was/is an externally imposed value and obviously, judging by our participation in this forum, is something that we are all aware of.

Paper Bag Parties did.

And I recently read a book about Jamaicans and their put down of the darker skin people within their country. The lighter you were the higher you were looked upon in society. The book was written by a Jamaican btw.

Appiah has said on here that Africans treat you different by the tone of your skin.

While I don't ignore what white people have done throughout history I read these things and wonder......why??!!

Much as I wonder about this lame ass party in St Louis.

BTW I'm from near there too originally.

 

[JordanC]

Lets also not dismiss(because this is huge) the effects this has on your social standing and the ability to take care of yourself.
A person who is denied things for a certain amount of time tends not to believe in the system that provides them.
People say "well just get an education". From where? The shitty public schools that are under funded and under staffed?
Stop selling drugs and doing crimes. Opposed to what? Not being able to find gainful employment after trying with no success.
Like you said drug dealing is feasible short term fix but not a long term one in order to feed yourself and house yourself.
Again I have to point out who here is without an education or some type of support system that's ever had to face this please speak up and explain why you are not in these neighborhoods trying to turn lives around. Its easy to judge shit when you're in the safety of your home miles away from the problem.

Well we were talking about drug dealers and I don't think they generally rely on welfare but I could be wrong on that one.

I went to Catholoc private school for both primary and secondary school. Undergrad at SUNYstarted my Graduate work in accounting at Uconn and will most likely finish at either CUNY or NYU Stern depending on funding with a doctorate in economics/applied mathematics with a concentration in behavioral models aka game theory. Why?

 

[orejon4]

Paper Bag Parties did.

And I recently read a book about Jamaicans and their put down of the darker skin people within their country. The lighter you were the higher you were looked upon in society. The book was written by a Jamaican btw.

Appiah has said on here that Africans treat you different by the tone of your skin.

While I don't ignore what white people have done throughout history I read these things and wonder......why??!!

Much as I wonder about this lame ass party in St Louis.

BTW I'm from near there too originally.

But these are all post-colonial/post-slavery developments. Another slip of my lip. I wasn't trying to say these weren't present in other societies, but the fetish develops as a byproduct of racial domination. It's not so much white people overtly ordering black people to do this as it is an internalized distortion that develops in a racial hierarchy. My mom wanted me to join Jack and Jill until she got wind of their paper bag test.

I'm seriously considering going, if I can face that freezing cold. I was born here, but after living in FL, other than going to class or to working meetings, I stay indoors with the heat as high as I can take it and watch reruns of Miami Vice and get homesick, lol.

 

[Bliss]

 

[The Dark King]

Real cute smart ass but I worked 3 years at an after school program in the projects, I also mentored for three years and I thought chess to disadvantaged kids for 7 years so take it easy. And if the prereq to talk about this is to live in the hood then you and the majority of this thread need to sit down and shut the fuck up.
It's funny it's ok to judge the situation negativitely when you don't live it or had to live it but it's ridiculous to give an even minded pov on why it happens.
Fuck it black people in poor areas are morally bankrupt and stupid they are a scourge on society. Somebody get the firehoses and dogs and teach this Negroes how to act.

 

[tropolis]

All I see is whining in this thread. I also thought orejon's post was pathetic. He's comparing a stripoff to 400 years of discrimination and how it molds every blacks mind.

I guarantee you this kid promoter was not a slave or went through Jim Crow. Gotta stop looking under your bed every night, trying to find a racist white voodoo mind controlling you when you sleep.

 

[The Dark King]

All I see is whining in this thread. I also thought orejon's post was pathetic. He's comparing a stripoff to 400 years of discrimination and how it molds every blacks mind.

I guarantee you this kid promoter was not a slave or went through Jim Crow. Gotta stop looking under your bed every night, trying to find a racist white voodoo mind controlling you when you sleep.

If you knew how to read you'd see that he was saying that everything that went on in the past lead us to this point. Dude even went so far to illustrate other displaced racial groups like the Native Americans but you are of that mindset "Get off your ass lazy negroes slavery is over"

One of the things I think many white people and apparently a lot of black people seem to dismiss is this.
You take a group of people and rip them away from their homes and put them to work for free for 16 to 18 hour days treating them less humane than you would a dog. Denying them education and the ability to fend for themselves raping their women, killing their men, forcing children to have sex with their mothers (that's where motherfucker comes from) in order to produce stronger slaves. Then after denying them basic human rights they are "freed" without the ability to own property or to get a formal education or to work for the same wages for the same work others get paid for in essence still keeping them enslaved. On top of that its legally recognized to treat them lesser than you would other people so much so that lynching them wasn't a crime. Let me remind you all the only reason we got traction for the civil rights movement in the early 60s is when those racist good ol boys started killing white civil rights activists as well as blacks before that burning down churches with children in them was a ok.
So you finally get to a point where we have a civil rights act that is suppose to afford everyone the same rights under the law yet we still had unfair hiring and firing practices despite affirmative action laws and on top of that banks issued redline district policies keeping black people who came in for loans in low income areas despite the ability to make a good down payment on a home. Mean while forcing those who were upwardly mobile to stay in the same run down ghettos they were working hard to get out of essentially further limiting their shot at the American dream everyone else seems to have a right to.
Looking at the history of this country no one and I mean no one has had to deal with the obstacles that black people have had to deal with and to simply dismiss the trials and tribulations that lead to this current situation as simple whining you should be ashamed of yourself sir.

Its a wonder why we don't have more domestic terrorism from black people in this country.

 

[orejon4]

All I see is whining in this thread. I also thought orejon's post was pathetic. He's comparing a stripoff to 400 years of discrimination and how it molds every blacks mind.

I guarantee you this kid promoter was not a slave or went through Jim Crow. Gotta stop looking under your bed every night, trying to find a racist white voodoo mind controlling you when you sleep.

Boy, it sure would be refreshing to see the substance of my remarks addressed rather than just slandered. I don't refer to anyone's views here as 'pathetic'. I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. I either agree or disagree, and state why. I NEVER stated that this guy was a slave or went through Jim Crow. A gross, deliberate misunderstanding of what I said. It doesn't "mold" every black's mind, but ALL social phenomena shape perceptions of those who experience them and are, in turn, incorporated into a broader culture passed on to children and so on. Being an American shapes how people perceive things, as does being a man, woman, police officer, banker, soldier, criminal or any other social element. Why should being a member of a systematically oppressed group of people be any different?

What I simply stated was that slavery DID leave a legacy (psychological, social and economic) on this country (not just on black people) and that it deforms much of our interactions (much the way sexism deforms gender relations). And that black hair/skin preference issues and their placement in a "good vs. bad" dichotomy in this country have their root in slavery. I would not have thought that was a controversial statement. I will keep my 'pathetic' views to myself in the future.

 

[The Dark King]

Don't let the small minded shut you up fam. We are seriously lacking intelligent males lately

Boy, it sure would be refreshing to see the substance of my remarks addressed rather than just slandered. I don't refer to anyone's views here as 'pathetic'. I respect everyone's right to their own opinion. I either agree or disagree, and state why. I NEVER stated that this guy was a slave or went through Jim Crow. A gross, deliberate misunderstanding of what I said. It doesn't "mold" every black's mind, but ALL social phenomena shape perceptions of those who experience them and are, in turn, incorporated into a broader culture passed on to children and so on. Being an American shapes how people perceive things, as does being a man, woman, police officer, banker, soldier, criminal or any other social element. Why should being a member of a systematically oppressed group of people be any different?

What I simply stated was that slavery DID leave a legacy (psychological, social and economic) on this country (not just on black people) and that it deforms much of our interactions (much the way sexism deforms gender relations). And that black hair/skin preference issues and their placement in a "good vs. bad" dichotomy in this country have their root in slavery. I would not have thought that was a controversial statement. I will keep my 'pathetic' views to myself in the future.

 

[orejon4]

If you knew how to read you'd see that he was saying that everything that went on in the past lead us to this point. Dude even went so far to illustrate amongst other displaced racial groups like the Native Americans but you are of that mindset "Get off your ass lazy negroes slavery is over"

One of the things I think many white people and apparently a lot of black people seem to dismiss is this.
You take a group of people and rip them away from their homes and put them to work for free for 16 to 18 hour days treating less humane then you would a dog. Denying them education and the ability to fend for themselves raping their women, killing their men, forcing children to have sex with their mothers (that's where motherfucker comes from) in order to produce to strong slaves. Then after denying them basic human rights they are "freed" without the ability to own property or to get a formal education or to work for the same wages for the same work others get paid for in essence still keeping them enslaved. On top of that its legally recognized to treat them lesser than you would other people so much so that lynching them wasn't a crime. Let me remind you all the only reason we got traction for the civil rights movement in the early 60s is when those racist good ol boys started killing white civil rights activists as well before that burning down churches with children in them was a ok.
So you finally get to a point where we have a civil rights act that is suppose to afford everyone the same rights under the law yet we still had unfair hiring and firing practices despite affirmative action laws and on top of that banks issued red lining policies keeping black people who came in for loans in low income areas despite the ability to make a good down payment on a home. Mean while forcing those who were upwardly mobile to stay in the same run down ghettos they were working hard to get out of.
Looking at the history of this country no one and I mean no one has had to deal with the obstacles that black people have had to deal with and to simply dismiss the trials and tribulations that lead to this current situation as simple whining you should be ashamed of yourself sir.

Its a wonder why we don't have more domestic terrorism from black people in this country.

Let the church say "Amen".