The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Cell can regenerate and breathe in space. Game over
The Nerdz Lounge.
- Thread starter Ol'Skool Classic
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Cell can regenerate and breathe in space. Game over
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
Doomsday can be killed and then will resurrect and can't be killed the same way that he was previously killed. He probably doesn't need to breathe or eat either since all that he's wired for is killing everything in sight.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
Actually, they are quite capable of destroying planets. They may not have energy beams of mass destruction, but they can still carry them out with more practical (and non-hyperexaggerated means). Goku is practically Japan's version of Superman, but in the end, still has the body similar to that of humans, so he is capable of being beaten by Superman. If his energy shots aren't made of magic either, which is one of Superman's weaknesses, so to Superman, he can recover from them easily.
P.S. Superman's perfectly capable of destroying planets and no need to show me any videos. I've watched ALL of the Dragonball series (even the piece of shit Dragonball GT) and I can tell you that in the end, Superman will still come out on top. The fight will be long fought, but in the end Superman may very well win it.
OR...it'll end in a draw seeing that both characters exercise will have immense respect for one another.
P.S. Superman's perfectly capable of destroying planets and no need to show me any videos. I've watched ALL of the Dragonball series (even the piece of shit Dragonball GT) and I can tell you that in the end, Superman will still come out on top. The fight will be long fought, but in the end Superman may very well win it.
OR...it'll end in a draw seeing that both characters exercise will have immense respect for one another.
Thank you. It is good to know someone who is as passionate about comic book heroes and villains as I am.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Hyper exaggerated? What do you call Superman Prime? Who hands down wins btw. Im beginning to see we didnt even set limitd on which versions we are talking about
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
Superman Prime isn't hyperexaggerated. It's fairly consistent with his abilities. The closer he is to the sun, the more powerful he is. Thus having to be INSIDE the sun dramatically increases his power to his full extent and yes, he is capable of even defeating god-like entities. Even without it, he's demonstrated his abilities beyond the bounds.
And as I said, it'll more than likely ("realistically speaking") end in a draw because Goku would like to fight fair and square with another opponent, not in the fight of the death, but out of respect and honor. But, I can tell you...even though he's Saiyan, he can still tire out like a human being, despite the fact he has higher levels of stamina. Sheer will is what keeps him going. Superman, he doesn't tire as easily. Plus, his body isn't like a human.
So, Superman would most likely win in the end.
P.S. Spare me the selective reasoning. It's not working.
And as I said, it'll more than likely ("realistically speaking") end in a draw because Goku would like to fight fair and square with another opponent, not in the fight of the death, but out of respect and honor. But, I can tell you...even though he's Saiyan, he can still tire out like a human being, despite the fact he has higher levels of stamina. Sheer will is what keeps him going. Superman, he doesn't tire as easily. Plus, his body isn't like a human.
So, Superman would most likely win in the end.
P.S. Spare me the selective reasoning. It's not working.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Near human? Goku has trained for hours in 100 times earth's gravity atmospheres. How is thay near human?
He has sustainef and deflected planet destroying attacks. You make dude sound like a glorified spiderman lol.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
You're probably as brain dead as Goku trying to understand Quantum Physics. The body of Saiyans are very much close to human body structure, whereas the body of a Kryptonian is not like that of a human. What part of that you didn't quite comprehend. Goku just happen to have STRONG WILLPOWER that allows him to push beyond his limitations. Even when in Super Saiyan form (all four), he still retains the physiological make-up to that of humans.
Don't mistake sheer willpower for body mass density and structure.
Don't mistake sheer willpower for body mass density and structure.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
You love throw insults out for no reason huh homie.
This all sci fi but since you love infecting everything with your pompus know it all attitude youre right fam. Happy?
I can show you examples where Saiyans are far beyond humans but you'll dismiss it because everyone else is dumb and youre smart. Got it.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
No, my wimpy friend. Again, your comprehension skills are sorely lacking. That or selective reasoning, which you're guilty of, is really a double-edged sword. I sometimes feel like I'm talking to somebody that exercises a high level of pompous behavior. I don't get how your girlfriend could put up with you at times. I sometimes wonder if you're just her experiment.
I actually like the Dragonball series and watched them all, even the movies, thus it's a waste of time for you to even "prove" whatever nonsense you're trying to convey. I know what the characters are capable of. Destroying planets with their energy shots don't make them hands down powerful compared to Superman. Superman can, and has moved planets before, which shows his strength and is very fast, though, not has fast as The Flash. But also looking at weaknesses, given that the DB characters shoot energy and don't have magic or kryptonite-like attacks, he'll be able to stand against the best of them.
If this particular passage is ignored (and you're good at it), then you're just a brick wall. You're too quick to giving up when it comes to me, yet when dealing with the females on here, you're far too relentless on exercising your minute, pseudo-intellectual muscle.
I actually like the Dragonball series and watched them all, even the movies, thus it's a waste of time for you to even "prove" whatever nonsense you're trying to convey. I know what the characters are capable of. Destroying planets with their energy shots don't make them hands down powerful compared to Superman. Superman can, and has moved planets before, which shows his strength and is very fast, though, not has fast as The Flash. But also looking at weaknesses, given that the DB characters shoot energy and don't have magic or kryptonite-like attacks, he'll be able to stand against the best of them.
If this particular passage is ignored (and you're good at it), then you're just a brick wall. You're too quick to giving up when it comes to me, yet when dealing with the females on here, you're far too relentless on exercising your minute, pseudo-intellectual muscle.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
For the record both Superman Prime & the Golden Age Superman are hyper exaggerated versions of Superman. They are basically Superman before he was rebooted in the 1980's to the somewhat more realistic,abilities wise depiction that he's been portrayed in to the present.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Because you go for personal attacks all the time and if I entertain that shit its not gonna pretty for either one of us. At least most of the women keep it to the topic. You my friend remind me of dudes I grew up with who would say some slick shit waiting for the teacher to break ot up before someone beat the piss out of you. I dont want to go down the internet brawling road with you so you win.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
:smt043:smt043:smt043
Are you threatening me, sonny? And you're the pot who calls the kettle black. You're as guilty as I am and if that passage serve as a threat, then you have another thing coming. I don't take them too kindly. But why fume over the net when we live so far apart? I'm 110% certain you wouldn't be THAT pissy to engage in a Nigga Moment, right?
Gas-lighting, selective-reasoning...it's all in you, kid. You just don't want to engage in this discussion anymore seeing you'll chicken out with me. You didn't provide any prospective arguments except "they can blow planets up," like some broken record. I've grew up with Dragonball and even at one point was a big fanatic. But let's be honest, while Goku is arguably considered the strongest in the action-anime genre, he still has a lot to prove all around.
Yeah, he possesses a lot of power and even reached godlike status, but he's still vulnerable to general damage.
Are you threatening me, sonny? And you're the pot who calls the kettle black. You're as guilty as I am and if that passage serve as a threat, then you have another thing coming. I don't take them too kindly. But why fume over the net when we live so far apart? I'm 110% certain you wouldn't be THAT pissy to engage in a Nigga Moment, right?
Gas-lighting, selective-reasoning...it's all in you, kid. You just don't want to engage in this discussion anymore seeing you'll chicken out with me. You didn't provide any prospective arguments except "they can blow planets up," like some broken record. I've grew up with Dragonball and even at one point was a big fanatic. But let's be honest, while Goku is arguably considered the strongest in the action-anime genre, he still has a lot to prove all around.
Yeah, he possesses a lot of power and even reached godlike status, but he's still vulnerable to general damage.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Well I don't know what subject matter we're using for this debate but if we are going to use just the cartoons I'd still have to pick Goku for a number of reasons.
1. Like it has been said before he actually knows how to fight. He has fighting techniques.
2. Unlike superman he can withstand and defeat magical beings like Majon Buu.
3. I have no measure of his strength since I can't recall an episode where they measured it but using episodes where he trained in 100 times the earth's gravity for hours gives a pretty good indicator as well as the episode where Vegita trained in 400 times the earth's gravity. Goku is stronger than Vegita so I would assume that he'd have no problem doing 400 times the earth's gravity in an untransformed state as well. Btw a fraction of that would crush an other organic life form on earth lending to the fact that their physiology is in fact much different than a humans. Take into account that each transformation makes him five times stronger than his previous state at SS level 4 he'd be more than 600 times stronger than his untransformed state.
4. One could also assume that he can survive in deep space since Broly did it at SS level 1 also surviving a planet explosion.
5. My overall reasoning for picking Goku over Superman is he I've never seen Superman train and progress. He's never had to face an enemy stronger than himself and have to dig deep to defeat him. He's seemingly indestructible so he's never had to be brave and figure his way out of a tough fight (again using the cartoons as a reference). It's always been brute force with him having little to no problem beating his opponent outside of Darkside and Dr. Ivo's android (who beat him and the entire Justice League btw)
Goku has always risen to the occasion even when the odds were against him. His powers weren't bestowed upon him, he worked for every ounce of power he's ever wielded which makes him more adept to handle a tough battle.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
Just to refute some of your points:
1. Goku has trained from a lot of people, so yes, he's an accomplished martial artist, but even in the midst of that, he never really used those techniques to the best of his abilities, since he's a head-on fighter. He's a strong fighter, but not much of a strategist. All we can do is push his limits and see if he can overpower his opponents. Hell, even in some respects, he had assistance. Don't think that he could have beaten Majin Buu alone without Vegeta's help.
At least Superman is capable of fighting alone since, if he acknowledges that his opponent is stronger than he is, he can always devise an plan to weaken his opponents. It's not about pure muscle in his fights, especially when confronting the likes of Darkseid or Doomsday.
2. Majin Buu isn't a magical being. All of the characters on there use energy shots in their battles, which isn't synonymous to magic. And you haven't been paying attention to any of the episodes on DBZ. Goku's not immune to anything. He's susceptible to any attack that is well above his strength level, so I really don't know what world you're diving into nor I don't know where you're getting your source material.
3. Goku isn't really capable of moving planets, but he could destroy them with his Kamehameha Wave technique even in SSJ1 form. And again, you're not paying attention...there's a crucial difference between sheer willpower and endurance and body biorhythm which is alien to a planet. You've obviously forgotten that Goku incrementally increased the gravity weight during his training once his body has gotten use to it. Beyond that, his sheer will actually kept him alive.
Keywords: Sheer willpower
4. Wrong. Broly's energy shield served as more of an atmospheric bubble to protect him on numerous occasions, as well as serving as oxygen since Saiyans cannot breathe in space, similar to that to humans. Remember, Goku had to rush off to Planet Namek after defeating Frieza. And why? It's because he can't breath in space. Understand?
5. Your knowledge in the superhero universe is well-below average and take into account that Superman has fought a lot more enemies than Tabula Rasa, Darkseid, and Doomsday. Remember, Doomsday killed Superman, but was revived through the sun, so I really don't know what sort of limited information you're getting your sources from. I'm nowhere near an expert on this as say Eye of Ra or archangel, but at least I do some research on the characters and not possess some faulty knowledge of them.
1. Goku has trained from a lot of people, so yes, he's an accomplished martial artist, but even in the midst of that, he never really used those techniques to the best of his abilities, since he's a head-on fighter. He's a strong fighter, but not much of a strategist. All we can do is push his limits and see if he can overpower his opponents. Hell, even in some respects, he had assistance. Don't think that he could have beaten Majin Buu alone without Vegeta's help.
At least Superman is capable of fighting alone since, if he acknowledges that his opponent is stronger than he is, he can always devise an plan to weaken his opponents. It's not about pure muscle in his fights, especially when confronting the likes of Darkseid or Doomsday.
2. Majin Buu isn't a magical being. All of the characters on there use energy shots in their battles, which isn't synonymous to magic. And you haven't been paying attention to any of the episodes on DBZ. Goku's not immune to anything. He's susceptible to any attack that is well above his strength level, so I really don't know what world you're diving into nor I don't know where you're getting your source material.
3. Goku isn't really capable of moving planets, but he could destroy them with his Kamehameha Wave technique even in SSJ1 form. And again, you're not paying attention...there's a crucial difference between sheer willpower and endurance and body biorhythm which is alien to a planet. You've obviously forgotten that Goku incrementally increased the gravity weight during his training once his body has gotten use to it. Beyond that, his sheer will actually kept him alive.
Keywords: Sheer willpower
4. Wrong. Broly's energy shield served as more of an atmospheric bubble to protect him on numerous occasions, as well as serving as oxygen since Saiyans cannot breathe in space, similar to that to humans. Remember, Goku had to rush off to Planet Namek after defeating Frieza. And why? It's because he can't breath in space. Understand?
5. Your knowledge in the superhero universe is well-below average and take into account that Superman has fought a lot more enemies than Tabula Rasa, Darkseid, and Doomsday. Remember, Doomsday killed Superman, but was revived through the sun, so I really don't know what sort of limited information you're getting your sources from. I'm nowhere near an expert on this as say Eye of Ra or archangel, but at least I do some research on the characters and not possess some faulty knowledge of them.
The Dark King
Well-Known Member
Will power can not and has never allowed any living being to go beyond the limitations of its physical body otherwise that wouldn't be a limitation. So writing off his ability as just will power absent of natural advantages due to a Saiyan physiology is dishonest. Humans do not get stronger every time they are close to death and survive, Saiyans do. No human has shown an ability to grow a tale that sparks a natural ability to be a destructive over sized ape when the moon is out but Saiyans do, so I don't get where you're getting that they have human physiologies. Is it because they can mate with humans? Let me remind you that in several comics Superman was believed to have had kids with Lois Lane and in the movie Superman Allstar when they were looking at Supermen of the future Lois Lane admitted that one of the Supermen resembled her father.
Also I don't know what your source is either but as I stated before mine are the cartoons in the final season of Justice League Superman defeated both Darkside and Doomsday with pure one on one force. Mind you with help from Batman and Wonder Woman with the latter. Batman stopped a kyrptonite missal from hitting the island they were fighting on and Wonder Woman flew an exhausted Superman to safety before the island blew up. So apparently he hasn't done it all alone either.
As far as Goku's proper techniques, what do you call the Kao Ken or the Kamihamika wave or even his ability to fly. These are all learned techniques that came with the progression of his martial arts skill. Its not just raw power.
Also I never said Goku could breathe in deep space just said he could survive it especially with an energy shield and the ability to teleport.
An my point will forever be that Superman has always walked into a fight with advantage and has never had to really fear harm. He's never had to mend broken bones or be close to death like Goku. I've never seen him exhibit a need to win, just a sense of duty.
Ol'Skool Classic
Well-Known Member
If you're only going strictly by what he did in the Justice League animated series then your argument has weight on just that, but MS is looking at it from the comic book side as well as the animated side where he has faced enemies who have physically fucked him up and literally killed him. Doomsday virtually killed him. He came back because being an alien whose genetic structure is partly crystalline in nature which allows for his ability to absorb sunlight and store its energy he was at the bare minimum of what could be considered alive that was only registered by the advanced tech in the Fortress of Solitude and detected by the robots that he has care-taking the Fortress when he's not there. They dug him up and brought him to the Fortress and spent several weeks pumping concentrated yellow solar radiation into him to more or less revive him and even then he was nowhere near the full strength level he was when he "died".
But again this is just me, I don't even think it's a fair match up between the two since as I stated Goku and the Dragonball characters all operate in a hyper exaggerated universe compared to Superman and the other comic characters of the DC universe. To me that's like comparing who would be faster between the Road Runner or the Flash.......
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
And this rambling post you've posted can only tell me just how little you understood any of the points I've made. I'll be nice and refute your (inaccurate) claims.
1. Willpower is the act of disciplining oneself through intensive training, first and foremost. Secondly, Saiyan bodies are essentially human, much like the modern human shares traits with that of the modern ape. This is where we draw the comparisons, but that's besides the point.
The planet Vegeta has an atmosphere that is 10 times the gravity of the Earth, but it's wholly irrelevant here since Goku never knew of Planet Vegeta, thus his gravitational usage is familiar to Earth's and his body, while still retaining much of its Saiyan density, it lacks in comparison, thus undergoing training to Planet Namek in the gravity chamber proved to be more cumbersome. But his Saiyan nature in fighting and WILLPOWER helped him push through those odds, thus overcoming all that.
2. There's more to Superman than the Justice League. There are countless movies and comics accessible to anyone willing to research it and you'll see that Superman has fought some very powerful adversaries. Whether if its Darkseid, Doomsday, Brainiac, or even lesser known adversaries. The scene involving Darkseid having assimilated with Brainiac was a RARE moment when Superman actually cut loose and pretty much put a beat down on him, only to get tricked and hit with Darkseid's laser. So, no he wasn't able to beat him completely. However, he nearly killed Darkseid on one episode, but Batman stopped him cold.
Doomsday? This is the "second" time they've fought and this time Superman wasn't able to put his full power to use since he was saving an island. Come on, kid...you shouldn't even try if you lack a full deck here.
3. Regarding Goku's techniques and power...all of that came from sheer determination. His Saiyan heritage has little to do with him becoming strong and more about helping people and saving the world for the greater good. When training, you're always determined to meet or exceed expectations and Goku manages to do that, though it took him time to get use to it. That's just raw power being exerted. He rarely utilized his martial arts to get to his opponents.
4. Surviving in deep space means being able to adapt and breathe in it. He can't hold his breath for long periods of time, otherwise Goku would choke himself to death. Don't try and twist this around. You said it and implied it.
1. Willpower is the act of disciplining oneself through intensive training, first and foremost. Secondly, Saiyan bodies are essentially human, much like the modern human shares traits with that of the modern ape. This is where we draw the comparisons, but that's besides the point.
The planet Vegeta has an atmosphere that is 10 times the gravity of the Earth, but it's wholly irrelevant here since Goku never knew of Planet Vegeta, thus his gravitational usage is familiar to Earth's and his body, while still retaining much of its Saiyan density, it lacks in comparison, thus undergoing training to Planet Namek in the gravity chamber proved to be more cumbersome. But his Saiyan nature in fighting and WILLPOWER helped him push through those odds, thus overcoming all that.
2. There's more to Superman than the Justice League. There are countless movies and comics accessible to anyone willing to research it and you'll see that Superman has fought some very powerful adversaries. Whether if its Darkseid, Doomsday, Brainiac, or even lesser known adversaries. The scene involving Darkseid having assimilated with Brainiac was a RARE moment when Superman actually cut loose and pretty much put a beat down on him, only to get tricked and hit with Darkseid's laser. So, no he wasn't able to beat him completely. However, he nearly killed Darkseid on one episode, but Batman stopped him cold.
Doomsday? This is the "second" time they've fought and this time Superman wasn't able to put his full power to use since he was saving an island. Come on, kid...you shouldn't even try if you lack a full deck here.
3. Regarding Goku's techniques and power...all of that came from sheer determination. His Saiyan heritage has little to do with him becoming strong and more about helping people and saving the world for the greater good. When training, you're always determined to meet or exceed expectations and Goku manages to do that, though it took him time to get use to it. That's just raw power being exerted. He rarely utilized his martial arts to get to his opponents.
4. Surviving in deep space means being able to adapt and breathe in it. He can't hold his breath for long periods of time, otherwise Goku would choke himself to death. Don't try and twist this around. You said it and implied it.
Morning Star
Well-Known Member
It's a bit unfair to state that since the DC Universe has collided with the Marvel Universe on numerous occasions and in the Marvel universe, you have some characters who could be deemed hyper-exaggerated. Plus, there was a Mortal Kombat vs. DC Universe game and that worked out extremely well, story arcs and all. So, it's not far fetched to pit the DC Universe and the Dragonball universe together, as long as there's a comprehensive story arc that can fit the characters together.