Trayvon Martin's Murder

[Ches]

The drug wars.
Here's my question if these people don't join gangs how do they realistically feed themselves and their family?

Really, TDK? Joining a gang is the only answer for some to earn a living??? That thinking right there (if shared by many) is half the problem!!!

There are people on this planet rising above their economic situations every damn day.

Like they say: if there's a will, there's a way. You make sacrifices to move your family out of the "war" zones into an even slightly better neighborhood and you stay there until you can make another sacrifice to move your family up again.

And you don't have like 5 babies by the time you're 23.

These are choices that people are actively making and which keeps them living the way they are....and then there are the choices of others who do everything in their power to get away from the situation they were born into and make a different living.

It's more than possible to do if you put your mind to it. And people are doing it every day.

It's called taking personal responsibility and not relying on others to make a better life for you.

There are thousands upon thousands of people who have climbed out of abject and adverse circumstances, choosing not to let their environment defeat them or direct their life choices. And even if you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, there are agencies and churches that will help, particularly if they know you are willing to help yourself. Joining a gang/selling drugs does not have to be a career choice.

 

[The Dark King]

Really, TDK? Joining a gang is the only answer for some to earn a living??? That thinking right there (if shared by many) is half the problem!!!



There are thousands upon thousands of people who have climbed out of abject and adverse circumstances, choosing not to let their environment defeat them or direct their life choices. And even if you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, there are agencies and churches that will help, particularly if they know you are willing to help yourself. Joining a gang/selling drugs does not have to be a career choice.

Im going to ask you the same question. How much time have you spent in these areas and how much interaction have you had with people in these circumstances?

 

[Ches]

Im going to ask you the same question. How much time have you spent in these areas and how much interaction have you had with people in these circumstances?

So if I haven't actually spent time in those circumstances, it's all a figment of my imagination??? There are hundreds of testimonials out there from people who have achieved this!

I think you just argue this to be a pita. Really.

 

[The Dark King]

So if I haven't actually spent time in those circumstances, it's all a figment of my imagination??? There are hundreds of testimonials out there from people who have achieved this!

I think you just argue this to be a pita. Really.

Pita? Lol
Now I argue to change minds because this shit isn't always some moral failing or an inability to pick the "right"thing thing. And just because some people make it out doesn't mean that those who haven't don't want better but its not as simple as some of you paint it. As long as drugs are illegal and there's a way to make quick money opposed to not working at all, let's not forget how bad the economy still is, do you think a lot of young men are just going to starve to death of they can find another way? And again you have realize resources are finite so not everyone not even most can you get help from government and churches most are left to fend for themselves. Its easy to judge from afar I get it but it skews your perception.

 

[Ches]

Pita? Lol
Now I argue to change minds because this shit isn't always some moral failing or an inability to pick the "right"thing thing. And just because some people make it out doesn't mean that those who haven't don't want better but its not as simple as some of you paint it. As long as drugs are illegal and there's a way to make quick money opposed to not working at all, let's not forget how bad the economy still is, do you think a lot of young men are just going to starve to death of they can find another way? And again you have realize resources are finite so not everyone not even most can you get help from government and churches most are left to fend for themselves. Its easy to judge from afar I get it but it skews your perception.

I get it that the economy, the environment, hopelessness and defeat all play a part in this situation. But I've watched shows that highlight at risk teens and they actually aspire to be in a gang, to sell drugs, to sit around and do little, yet expect to make a living. Why? What makes one young person study and look for ways to better him- or herself, and the student (from the same neighborhood and similar family situation) in the seat next to him/her thinks getting pregnant and going on welfare is a career option? Or joining a gang and/or selling drugs is cool and something to strive for?

 

[Loki]

I get it that the economy, the environment, hopelessness and defeat all play a part in this situation. But I've watched shows that highlight at risk teens and they actually aspire to be in a gang, to sell drugs, to sit around and do little, yet expect to make a living. Why? What makes one young person study and look for ways to better him- or herself, and the student (from the same neighborhood and similar family situation) in the seat next to him/her thinks getting pregnant and going on welfare is a career option? Or joining a gang and/or selling drugs is cool and something to strive for?

It is as it has always been Ches, it starts with the youth having something in their daily lives that they love so much and speaks to their soul that they are willing to do whatever has to be done, get good grades, stay away from crime, responsible about sex/procreation, ect. so that they can keep doing what they love to do. They also have to have someone care enough to either give them that opportunity or make it extremely affordable.

http://vimeo.com/70013062

http://www.localkicks.com/community/news/bringing-the-thrill-of-riding-to-inner-city-kids

http://www.edudemic.com/2012/12/an-inner-city-music-program-worth-singing-about/
"In some school districts, students have access to a wide variety of educational enrichment programs from elementary school onward. However, students in the St. Louis Public School District, like students in many other districts, rarely have access to many of these opportunities."

There are many other examples, IMO and experience, such programs work while just complaining or wringing hands about same old negative statistics, like some around here seem to love to continue to do, does not.

 

[The Dark King]

I get it that the economy, the environment, hopelessness and defeat all play a part in this situation. But I've watched shows that highlight at risk teens and they actually aspire to be in a gang, to sell drugs, to sit around and do little, yet expect to make a living. Why? What makes one young person study and look for ways to better him- or herself, and the student (from the same neighborhood and similar family situation) in the seat next to him/her thinks getting pregnant and going on welfare is a career option? Or joining a gang and/or selling drugs is cool and something to strive for?

Obviously not all kids do this but I don't get why its a shock that some do.

 

[Ches]

Obviously not all kids do this but I don't get why its a shock that some do.

I never said it was a shock. Kids model their lives after those they look up to - good or bad.

 

[The Dark King]

I never said it was a shock. Kids model their lives after those they look up to - good or bad.

Never said they did but here's my question to you guys. In this world that is rapidly changing where it's far more favorable to outsource and automate what path to employment do we guide this kids towards? What realistic options do they truly have.

 

[Loki]

Powerful insights from the front lines.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jacqueline_novogratz_on_an_escape_from_poverty.html

 

[Bliss]

Stop ignoring the much bigger problem. This goes far beyond personal accountability when these people grow up in gang infested areas and have to pick a side to survive especially in cities like Chicago where the black unemployment is over double the national average. Just like we see im Mexico, Brazil, Colombia, Jamaica etc if the local economy has no way for you to earn money and eat its either join the gang or starve.

Are you blind?
I show you my post where I said 'its gangs and drugs', but ignored I said so, in your reply. I again reiterated it to you, BUT because I point out to you that I said 'it's ALSO personal accountability', you come back yet AGAIN with this nonsense as if I never said the former and only the latter.

SO you can SEE what I actually wrote, here you go! Done discussing this with you.

Originally Posted by Bliss
I don't like the fact that people are suggesting that poverty = murderers. Being poor does not make you one. Nor being oppressed. Persevering through these 2 obstacles has always been the strength of mankind's character. In fact, some of the most violent, murderous, warmongering men in history who have committed crimes against humanity were(are) rich, well fed, and privileged.

The spike in murders in the last 2/3 decades I truly feel are based on gang indoctrinations, lack of accountability by the individual due to the lax justice system/prison terms that help perpetuate repeat criminals... and the drug trade, usage and selling.

Until the drug flow and demand is stemmed, I don't see much of a change on the horizon.

 

[Ches]

It is as it has always been Ches, it starts with the youth having something in their daily lives that they love so much and speaks to their soul that they are willing to do whatever has to be done, get good grades, stay away from crime, responsible about sex/procreation, ect. so that they can keep doing what they love to do. They also have to have someone care enough to either give them that opportunity or make it extremely affordable.

http://vimeo.com/70013062

http://www.localkicks.com/community/news/bringing-the-thrill-of-riding-to-inner-city-kids

http://www.edudemic.com/2012/12/an-inner-city-music-program-worth-singing-about/
"In some school districts, students have access to a wide variety of educational enrichment programs from elementary school onward. However, students in the St. Louis Public School District, like students in many other districts, rarely have access to many of these opportunities."

There are many other examples, IMO and experience, such programs work while just complaining or wringing hands about same old negative statistics, like some around here seem to love to continue to do, does not.

My son's former youth group leader started a program called Heads Up here in our city school district. Recruited volunteers, (at first, but with more exposure and gifts/donations, is now able to pay them) who bring skills to teach - from something simple like rhythmic dancing and street drumming to more complex forms of art.

I look at my son and my experience as a single mother. His father left when he was 8. I had very little help with him outside of school. I'm so grateful that he turned out well - but I expected him to. I made it a point to know where he was, who he was with, that he was getting good grades. He had no positive male role models in his life until he got to high school and had his youth group leader who was only a few years older than he was at the time.
Granted, my son is white and we didn't live in the projects. But nonetheless, he could have gone in a different direction. I'd like to think that my expectations of him and being involved in his life made a difference.

 

[The Dark King]

Powerful insights from the front lines.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jacqueline_novogratz_on_an_escape_from_poverty.html

Great vid Loki but I can't help but think of the 499800 people. What are they suppose do?

 

[Ches]

Never said they did but here's my question to you guys. In this world that is rapidly changing where it's far more favorable to outsource and automate what path to employment do we guide this kids towards? What realistic options do they truly have.

What about learning a trade? Financial aid is very easy to obtain if you come from a low-income household.

 

[The Dark King]

Are you blind?
I show you my post where I said 'its gangs and drugs', but ignored I said so, in your reply. I again reiterated it to you, BUT because I point out to you that I said 'it's ALSO personal accountability', you come back yet AGAIN with this nonsense as if I never said the former and only the latter.

SO you can SEE what I actually wrote, here you go! Done discussing this with you.

And you remain obtuse and out of touch. Strength of character? You have no clue about economics and history do you?
You think all those people involved in gangs around the world lack character? Who is blind now?

 

[Bliss]

Really, TDK? Joining a gang is the only answer for some to earn a living??? That thinking right there (if shared by many) is half the problem!!!



There are thousands upon thousands of people who have climbed out of abject and adverse circumstances, choosing not to let their environment defeat them or direct their life choices. And even if you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps, there are agencies and churches that will help, particularly if they know you are willing to help yourself. Joining a gang/selling drugs does not have to be a career choice.

Fabulous post.

Also, you would not believe how many social programs exist if you are - as he puts it -"starving", suggesting AS IF joining a gang or selling drugs is the ONLY way to eat. GTHO. Especially with our generous Government, back-to-work programs, Govt subsidized job-placement, free medical, free feeding your children at school, SNAP, free medical care for your child, free housing, rental assistance programs, free utilities, utility assistance programs, free phone, free or reduced internet... If you live below the poverty line in THIS country, all your basic needs are taken care of, and I DARE him to prove otherwise.

He has the nerve to ask you do you live in the areas, yet HE DOES NOT LIVE in the areas he claims he knows so much about. All talk!

 

[The Dark King]

What about learning a trade? Financial aid is very easy to obtain if you come from a low-income household.

Who told you that lie? Maybe student loans with 8% interest. And you also ignore the education issues in these low income areas where you have 18 year olds reading at an eighth grade level without basic math skills. I get what you're saying.there are options like you and I could get chemical engineering degrees and work in potrolium making a nice six figure salary but is it realistic?

 

[The Dark King]

Fabulous post.

Also, you would not believe how many social programs exist if you are - as he puts it -"starving", suggesting AS IF joining a gang or selling drugs is the ONLY way to eat. GTHO. Especially with our generous Government, back-to-work programs, Govt subsidized job-placement, free medical, free feeding your children at school, SNAP, free medical care for your child, free housing, rental assistance programs, free utilities, utility assistance programs, free phone, free or reduced internet... If you live below the poverty line in THIS country, all your basic needs are taken care of, and I DARE him to prove otherwise.

He has the nerve to ask you do you live in the areas, yet HE DOES NOT LIVE in the areas he claims he knows so much about. All talk!

Are you really that slow? There are 47 MILLION people living in poverty in this country many of which don't qualify for any assistance since they either have expired benefits or earn to much to get help but not enough to makes ends meet. Smh.

 

[Loki]

My son's former youth group leader started a program called Heads Up here in our city school district. Recruited volunteers, (at first, but with more exposure and gifts/donations, is now able to pay them) who bring skills to teach - from something simple like rhythmic dancing and street drumming to more complex forms of art.

I look at my son and my experience as a single mother. His father left when he was 8. I had very little help with him outside of school. I'm so grateful that he turned out well - but I expected him to. I made it a point to know where he was, who he was with, that he was getting good grades. He had no positive male role models in his life until he got to high school and had his youth group leader who was only a few years older than he was at the time.
Granted, my son is white and we didn't live in the projects. But nonetheless, he could have gone in a different direction. I'd like to think that my expectations of him and being involved in his life made a difference.

Well done Ches, well done indeed. Nothing can beat an involved and committed parent.

 

[Ches]

Who told you that lie? Maybe student loans with 8% interest. And you also ignore the education issues in these low income areas where you have 18 year olds reading at an eighth grade level without basic math skills. I get what you're saying.there are options like you and I could get chemical engineering degrees and work in potrolium making a nice six figure salary but is it realistic?

It's still financial aid. I was making diddly squat and my son got grants and loans and worked part-time to fund his education.