Trayvon Martin's Murder

[Ches]

maybe u need to explain with more clarity. from what im reading u r defending someone who is infetrring tray brougjht the murder on himself and we should respect that. so explain what u r saying

You are reading way more into what I said than what I'm actually saying!!!! I specifically said I'm not defending him or his views, but each person's right to have a view, even if it's different than the popular one. You keep accusing Pani of not being a black man, when we've seen that he is. You keep saying he's constantly disrespectful, when he's revealed that he can and did dialogue respectfully in the TDK thread. And I'm not saying he's never been disrespctful.

GL, calm down and really read what I wrote. You're reacting out of passion and anger.

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

But you agree that Pani has been respectful in his video dialogue, right? Maybe there's something to that? I mean, it's a shame we can't be respectful just in writing, but maybe the vid makes the individual more "real" and so dialogue is more respectful?

And lest anyone say I'm butt kissing, I'm not defending Pani or anyone specifically. Just defending the right to hold a different view. But I agree, if someone starts off insulting, I suppose he/she gets what they deserve. But it goes too far, at times.

I believe, there are times when a person comes off as disrespectful simply because they don't share a commonly held view. They're immediately looked at as suspect. Conclusions are jumped to, insults are thrown, neg reps are given....why not stop and politely ask why he holds that view - how did he come to that viewpoint?

Here's the problem however. We have one long standing forum member who by many of his recent posts of the past month or so both in this and other threads has shown that he does not care about respecting other views or the people who hold them. He comes off as only wanting to be here to basically pimp his views & opinions upon others because he sees himself as superior & therefore his views & opinions are the ones EVERYONE should hold.

Also as it's been pointed out with Mr. James Wilson, many may not have agreed with his views but he is/was well respected & as I recalled NEVER got in any name calling matches with anyone or was ever called any names by anyone here who disagreed with him. Why is it that certain other black males who hold the same views as he does seem to have a problem with communicating their views & opinions in the same respectful manner? Why is it that white female members such as yourself & Bliss who also hold some of the same views are able to get your points across in a respectful way compared to these other black males who hold the same views? That in & of itself should speak volumes to you & anyone else that it's more than people here not wanting to respect their views & opinions. Just my opinion however.

 

[Loki]

Loki, are there any sanctions available for jury members who admit to not executing their duties correctly? Does her admission even qualify as not executing those duties? The statement she makes about her being willing to hold out for a hung jury, does that count?

IMO, nothing she said would rise to the level of a prosecutable offense.

 

[Ches]

Here's the problem however. We have one long standing forum member who by many of his recent posts of the past month or so both in this and other threads has shown that he does not care about respecting other views or the people who hold them. He comes off as only wanting to be here to basically pimp his views & opinions upon others because he sees himself as superior & therefore his views & opinions are the ones EVERYONE should hold.

Also as it's been pointed out with Mr. James Wilson, many may not have agreed with his views but he is/was well respected & as I recalled NEVER got in any name calling matches with anyone or was ever called any names by anyone here who disagreed with him. Why is it that certain other black males who hold the same views as he does seem to have a problem with communicating their views & opinions in the same respectful manner? Why is it that white female members such as yourself & Bliss who also hold some of the same views are able to get your points across in a respectful way compared to these other black males who hold the same views? That in & of itself should speak volumes to you & anyone else that it's more than people here not wanting to respect their views & opinions. Just my opinion however.

I absolutely agree, Ra. It's always about respect with me, regardless of what's being expressed. I know it's tough for a BM to hear another BM have an opinion that seems to disregard everything that is important to the black community. I really do get that. It would be like me hearing another woman degrading women. But I would wonder, first and foremost, what happened in her life to bring her to that place? I would try to respectfully determine that and then view her opinion within that framework.

I think it's entirely possible to be angry and passionate about what you believe and get that point across without insulting or name-calling, ESPECIALLY on an online forum. I've said it before: Walk away from the computer/tablet/phone, take a deep breath, calm down and then come back and type a response. The fact that James Wilson did it is proof that it can be done. I'd like to think that Pani resorted to the video thread in an effort to be taken seriously and respectfully. Again, not defending or trying to talk for him. Just an observation.

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

I absolutely agree, Ra. It's always about respect with me, regardless of what's being expressed. I know it's tough for a BM to hear another BM have an opinion that seems to disregard everything that is important to the black community. I really do get that. It would be like me hearing another woman degrading women. But I would wonder, first and foremost, what happened in her life to bring her to that place? I would try to respectfully determine that and then view her opinion within that framework.

I think it's entirely possible to be angry and passionate about what you believe and get that point across without insulting or name-calling, ESPECIALLY on an online forum. I've said it before: Walk away from the computer/tablet/phone, take a deep breath, calm down and then come back and type a response. The fact that James Wilson did it is proof that it can be done. I'd like to think that Pani resorted to the video thread in an effort to be taken seriously and respectfully. Again, not defending or trying to talk for him. Just an observation.

Just my observation on Paniro but he didn't need to resort to the videos IMO because I think everyone here gets where he is coming from with his views & he has on more than one occasion communicated his views on topics with no problems. It just seems he cares more about trolling the site than actually wanting to engage in meaningful discussions and expressing opinions. Especially when he goes into threads that have nothing to do with actual race or the black community and tries to turn it into a racial/black community debate. See Goodlove's "Are White Rappers Now The Better Rappers" thread for an example of that, a thread that was all about music more so than actual race. See also how someone else injected himself into that thread and tried to turn it into unneeded drama.

 

[Ches]

Just my observation on Paniro but he didn't need to resort to the videos IMO because I think everyone here gets where he is coming from with his views & he has on more than one occasion communicated his views on topics with no problems. It just seems he cares more about trolling the site than actually wanting to engage in meaningful discussions and expressing opinions. Especially when he goes into threads that have nothing to do with actual race or the black community and tries to turn it into a racial/black community debate. See Goodlove's "Are White Rappers Now The Better Rappers" thread for an example of that, a thread that was all about music more so than actual race. See also how someone else injected himself into that thread and tried to turn it into unneeded drama.

Fair enough, Ra. You know I respect you so I will stand down. I just really hate to see one BM calling another a klansman. Or disputing whether he's even black (or a man, for that matter).

 

[Ol'Skool Classic]

Fair enough, Ra. You know I respect you so I will stand down. I just really hate to see one BM calling another a klansman. Or disputing whether he's even black (or a man, for that matter).

By all means please don't think I'm saying any of the name calling & disrespect is warranted by anyone against anyone else. Just pointing out that the majority on the site do know how to respect other individuals' views & opinions when their views & opinions are respected even if they don't agree with them contrary to what some people have repeatedly suggested.

 

[Ches]

By all means please don't think I'm saying any of the name calling & disrespect is warranted by anyone against anyone else. Just pointing out that the majority on the site do know how to respect other individuals' views & opinions when their views & opinions are respected even if they don't agree with them contrary to what some people have repeatedly suggested.

Agreed.

 

[orejon4]

IMO, nothing she said would rise to the level of a prosecutable offense.

What is the standard for juror misconduct? I'm surprised that admitting that you changed your opinion/vote based on something other than the facts isn't sufficient. Although she also couched her view in her understanding of the law as explained in the jury instructions.

 

[Loki]

What is the standard for juror misconduct? I'm surprised that admitting that you changed your opinion/vote based on something other than the facts isn't sufficient. Although she also couched her view in her understanding of the law as explained in the jury instructions.

Not sure about Florida, but in most states the remedies for jury misconduct are more along the lines of declaring a mistrial, dismissing the juror, dismissing the entire jury, or admonishing (verbal slap on the wrist) the juror on record. Because she was technically following the letter of the law, her personal feelings and thoughts would most likely not rise to the level of jury misconduct.

 

[archangel]

What is the standard for juror misconduct? I'm surprised that admitting that you changed your opinion/vote based on something other than the facts isn't sufficient. Although she also couched her view in her understanding of the law as explained in the jury instructions.

I'm sure they will punish her very well because as it is now so many people are begging to be on a jury. lol



slap on the wrist.

 

[FG]

IMO, nothing she said would rise to the level of a prosecutable offense.

I heard an interview with a juror, I think it's that last one posted on here. She said that she couldn't vote guilty because there were no proof of Z -intentionally- killing T. Now, that scares me, as manslaughter was on the table, as she used the word 'intentionally' specifically. Did she not understand that manslaughter was on the table?

That 37 juror was a whack job and should never have been called. I heard her 'entry' interview and, man was it weird.'I don't watch TV, I don't read news, I don't talk to people about current events and all I use newspaper for is for my parrots'.

It really sounds to me the jury did a butcher job on this thing, if the went with no proof of 'intentionally killing' T as the Bxx jury mentioned, when manslaughter was an option. I'm really confused after hearing the juror interviews.

 

[goodlove]

I heard an interview with a juror, I think it's that last one posted on here. She said that she couldn't vote guilty because there were no proof of Z -intentionally- killing T. Now, that scares me, as manslaughter was on the table, as she used the word 'intentionally' specifically. Did she not understand that manslaughter was on the table?

That 37 juror was a whack job and should never have been called. I heard her 'entry' interview and, man was it weird.'I don't watch TV, I don't read news, I don't talk to people about current events and all I use newspaper for is for my parrots'.

It really sounds to me the jury did a butcher job on this thing, if the went with no proof of 'intentionally killing' T as the Bxx jury mentioned, when manslaughter was an option. I'm really confused after hearing the juror interviews.

exactly!!! I was thinking the same thing! of the 3 who wanted to convict zim...2 wanted manslaughter...alledgedly.


manslaughter is negligence....so why not get him on that? I mean damn

 

[archangel]

I heard an interview with a juror, I think it's that last one posted on here. She said that she couldn't vote guilty because there were no proof of Z -intentionally- killing T. Now, that scares me, as manslaughter was on the table, as she used the word 'intentionally' specifically. Did she not understand that manslaughter was on the table?

That 37 juror was a whack job and should never have been called. I heard her 'entry' interview and, man was it weird.'I don't watch TV, I don't read news, I don't talk to people about current events and all I use newspaper for is for my parrots'.

It really sounds to me the jury did a butcher job on this thing, if the went with no proof of 'intentionally killing' T as the Bxx jury mentioned, when manslaughter was an option. I'm really confused after hearing the juror interviews.

evidence that the peer judgement system does not work.

 

[Loki]

exactly!!! I was thinking the same thing! of the 3 who wanted to convict zim...2 wanted manslaughter...alledgedly.


manslaughter is negligence....so why not get him on that? I mean damn

Definition of voluntary and involuntary manslaughter for Florida below. The problem for the prosecution would remain the same, not enough definitive eye-witness testimony to overcome the self defense argument from the defense.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-voluntary-manslaughter-laws.html

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html

 

[Gorath]

exactly!!! I was thinking the same thing! of the 3 who wanted to convict zim...2 wanted manslaughter...alledgedly.


manslaughter is negligence....so why not get him on that? I mean damn

That is what I thought GZ would be guilty of, also. But, GZ is free and still carrying a gun.

 

[The Dark King]

Definition of voluntary and involuntary manslaughter for Florida below. The problem for the prosecution would remain the same, not enough definitive eye-witness testimony to overcome the self defense argument from the defense.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-voluntary-manslaughter-laws.html

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html

So in Florida its basically the word of the one left standing that counts? wow

 

[archangel]

Definition of voluntary and involuntary manslaughter for Florida below. The problem for the prosecution would remain the same, not enough definitive eye-witness testimony to overcome the self defense argument from the defense.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-voluntary-manslaughter-laws.html

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florida-law/florida-involuntary-manslaughter-laws.html

explain it to me why he isn't guilty of involuntary manslaughter? It seems like he fits that along with stalking.

 

[archangel]

So in Florida its basically the word of the one left standing that counts? wow

In florida? Do I need to remind you sean bell got gun down in New york city and had witnesses? trust me It ain't just orlando and NYC.

Cops walk scott free

 

[Loki]

explain it to me why he isn't guilty of involuntary manslaughter? It seems like he fits that along with stalking.

Because the "culpable negligence" element necessary to prove involuntary manslaughter would most likely not be able to be proven by the prosecution. The prosecution could have argued that GZ was negligent by ignoring the police instructions and following TM, but that's where it gets difficult because nobody saw the altercation and could refute GZ's claim of self defense.
Defenses to Involuntary Manslaughter Charges

• Justifiable use of deadly force to defend against a felony committed against a person or property

- See more at: http://statelaws.findlaw.com/florid...y-manslaughter-laws.html#sthash.im4AD7jC.dpuf